Jason Demarco Just Gave out some bad news for toonami fans

[CountFrylock]

 

Edited May 14, 2022 by CountFrylock

[ben0119]

On 5/8/2022 at 6:36 AM, Sketch said:

"Talented people are capable of understanding us" is a quote from Gundam Wing that was used in the Toonami music video titled "Space is the Place"

He's making a nod to that.

Not surprising I wouldn't remember something from Gundam Wing, since I don't like that franchise much in general.  I remember having an episode that show on for a few seconds.  Someone said "LAUNCH THE MOBILE DOLLS!" and I changed the channel.

So Demarco is just referencing that, and there's no other meaning behind it?

[ben0119]

8 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

 

That is good to hear they have some plans.  I hope plans included already having some deals in place for shows.  Because of stuff isn't already secured... as we know, plans don't always go... to plan.

[Sketch]

24 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Not surprising I wouldn't remember something from Gundam Wing, since I don't like that franchise much in general.  I remember having an episode that show on for a few seconds.  Someone said "LAUNCH THE MOBILE DOLLS!" and I changed the channel.

So Demarco is just referencing that, and there's no other meaning behind it?

He's probably also saying there's still people out there that see a value in Toonami or at least implying that there should be.

 

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, Sketch said:

He's probably also saying there's still people out there that see a value in Toonami or at least implying that there should be.

 

Oh ok.  Yeah you would hope so. 

Even if cable is a dinosaur, we have seen streaming oversaturate itself and defeat the original purpose - that of having large libraries and repositories on a select few platforms.  With just about everyone wanting their own streaming service, it just keeps splitting the same pie further and further, and you could easily nickel and dime yourself up towards the cost of a cable bill by subscribing to all the services that have some shows you might want to watch.  And now we've of course seen some platforms crash and burn, and others start to falter.

Although on the other hand, cable's customer service and pricing is so horrible, it's almost like it's purposefully trying to go out of business at this point.  So who knows what will happen.

[CountFrylock]

On 5/15/2022 at 4:16 AM, ben0119 said:

Oh ok.  Yeah you would hope so. 

Even if cable is a dinosaur, we have seen streaming oversaturate itself and defeat the original purpose - that of having large libraries and repositories on a select few platforms.  With just about everyone wanting their own streaming service, it just keeps splitting the same pie further and further, and you could easily nickel and dime yourself up towards the cost of a cable bill by subscribing to all the services that have some shows you might want to watch.  And now we've of course seen some platforms crash and burn, and others start to falter.

Although on the other hand, cable's customer service and pricing is so horrible, it's almost like it's purposefully trying to go out of business at this point.  So who knows what will happen.

it doesn't help that many companies already think cable tv is done so you can see a lot of networks turn into repetitive marathons

 

[CountFrylock]

 

[Sketch]

Common beliefs among Toonami critics:

1) Jason DeMarco has "old man" taste and doesn't look at anything new that isn't a popular shounen and he programs Toonami like his own personal MyAnimeList

2) Jason DeMarco, Gill Austin and Kim Manning wait till the last minute to pick shows whenever there's an opening on the horizon

3) When the popular shounen aren't available, Toonami's management would rather pick up nothing than go outside of their comfort zone

4) When Toonami was loading up with long runners they were missing opportunities to get other shows

I don't think Jason's statements here will be nearly enough to persuade Toonami critics because many will just say he's lying but he can't be much more transparent about the process than that.

They do regularly discuss what shows to get for Toonami and DeMarco does look a new anime that aren't shounen. In the past he's mentioned that they were unable to get KonoSuba, Shield Hero, The Ancient Magus Bride, Fairy Tale and Yuri on Ice among other shows. Who knows what other shows they wanted to get that they couldn't? I'm not sure what's a more distressing thought.. that Toonami wasn't interested in Blood Blockade Battlefront or that they wanted to get it but they couldn't.

Why then could all those big shounen air on Toonami? My theory is the companies involved (primarily the Japanese ones) wanted those shows on television most of all but they did have wait things out a bit for My Hero Academia despite that. Gundam and Lupin happened for similar reasons. Aniplex brought Neverland and Demon Slayer to the table because at the time Toonami had proven a successful partner with SAO, Kill la Kill and other series. Perhaps they felt burned from their exclusive deals with Hulu and Netflix and still considered Toonami a good partner in 2019 but now feel otherwise. After Neon Alley didn't pan out, in 2016 and 2018 Viz went all in on Toonami with the exception of Sailor Moon (which Toonami also wanted). I'm not sure why Toonami couldn't get YashaHime sooner but from the sound of it, Toonami would have gotten JoJo's Stone Ocean if Netflix hadn't butted in. So while Toonami was considering Made in Abyss, SSSS.Gridman and Assassination Classroom some time earlier than they got them, other opportunities swayed their hand.

We know Adult Swim has always run it's network "on the cheap" so with the exception of already huge titles like Attack on Titan (first season), DBZ Kai, DBS and My Hero Academia (in 2018) they probably got rather good deals on the shows they did air. So a serious problem Toonami could very well be facing now is that Sony has no interest in cutting them a deal for anything and the amount of money that might have sustained Toonami in prior years isn't enough to get as many shows now because the costs have gone up across the board. It might actually be becoming more affordable to make new shows than to borrow shows from licensors. It is evidently more affordable to make a new show than to license and dub an existing one according to DeMarco. I suppose that makes sense, you can set the budget of your own project but when you license a show from a Japanese company they can put whatever price they want to on it.

I do not envy their position and I'm not surprise they're "basically giving up" on trying to make Toonami fans "happy" because a sizable portion want the focus to stay on big shounen like Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer and the fans who have grown tired of the shounen onslaught want to see anything but more shounen. Its difficult to find a balance there especially when the shounen fans are much more vocal on Facebook and Twitter and the shounen haters mostly vent their frustrations on 4chan. They're probably better off not worrying about appeasing either faction. I'm sure they see the merits in having a variety of programming but it doesn't always work out that way.

I sure would love to listen in on even one of those conversations they have about potential show pick-ups.

[CountFrylock]

19 minutes ago, Sketch said:

Common beliefs among Toonami critics:

1) Jason DeMarco has "old man" taste and doesn't look at anything new that isn't a popular shounen and he programs Toonami like his own personal MyAnimeList

2) Jason DeMarco, Gill Austin and Kim Manning wait till the last minute to pick shows whenever there's an opening on the horizon

3) When the popular shounen aren't available, Toonami's management would rather pick up nothing than go outside of their comfort zone

4) When Toonami was loading up with long runners they were missing opportunities to get other shows

I don't think Jason's statements here will be nearly enough to persuade Toonami critics because many will just say he's lying but he can't be much more transparent about the process than that.

They do regularly discuss what shows to get for Toonami and DeMarco does look a new anime that aren't shounen. In the past he's mentioned that they were unable to get KonoSuba, Shield Hero, The Ancient Magus Bride, Fairy Tale and Yuri on Ice among other shows. Who knows what other shows they wanted to get that they couldn't? I'm not sure what's a more distressing thought.. that Toonami wasn't interested in Blood Blockade Battlefront or that they wanted to get it but they couldn't.

Why then could all those big shounen air on Toonami? My theory is the companies involved (primarily the Japanese ones) wanted those shows on television most of all but they did have wait things out a bit for My Hero Academia despite that. Gundam and Lupin happened for similar reasons. Aniplex brought Neverland and Demon Slayer to the table because at the time Toonami had proven a successful partner with SAO, Kill la Kill and other series. Perhaps they felt burned from their exclusive deals with Hulu and Netflix and still considered Toonami a good partner in 2019 but now feel otherwise. After Neon Alley didn't pan out, in 2016 and 2018 Viz went all in on Toonami with the exception of Sailor Moon (which Toonami also wanted). I'm not sure why Toonami couldn't get YashaHime sooner but from the sound of it, Toonami would have gotten JoJo's Stone Ocean if Netflix hadn't butted in. So while Toonami was considering Made in Abyss, SSSS.Gridman and Assassination Classroom some time earlier than they got them, other opportunities swayed their hand.

We know Adult Swim has always run it's network "on the cheap" so with the exception of already huge titles like Attack on Titan (first season), DBZ Kai, DBS and My Hero Academia (in 2018) they probably got rather good deals on the shows they did air. So a serious problem Toonami could very well be facing now is that Sony has no interest in cutting them a deal for anything and the amount of money that might have sustained Toonami in prior years isn't enough to get as many shows now because the costs have gone up across the board. It might actually be becoming more affordable to make new shows than to borrow shows from licensors. It is evidently more affordable to make a new show than to license and dub an existing one according to DeMarco. I suppose that makes sense, you can set the budget of your own project but when you license a show from a Japanese company they can put whatever price they want to on it.

I do not envy their position and I'm not surprise they're "basically giving up" on trying to make Toonami fans "happy" because a sizable portion want the focus to stay on big shounen like Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer and the fans who have grown tired of the shounen onslaught want to see anything but more shounen. Its difficult to find a balance there especially when the shounen fans are much more vocal on Facebook and Twitter and the shounen haters mostly vent their frustrations on 4chan. They're probably better off not worrying about appeasing either faction. I'm sure they see the merits in having a variety of programming but it doesn't always work out that way.

I sure would love to listen in on even one of those conversations they have about potential show pick-ups.

 

so who will toonami make deals with then moving forward?

because as we've seen originals do take time and they can't be pumped out rapidly

there will be periods  where there isn't an original on the block and one isn't coming anytime soon

such is the case right now with housing complex c and uzumaki

Edited May 29, 2022 by CountFrylock

[Blatch]

For me, the block's turning point was when Re:Zero came out, I totally expected them to get it, but then they not only shut that one out but isekai shows in general. Though we now know that KonoSuba! and Shield Hero were considered, I don't think that would've consoled my 2016 self. It was when I started to drift away from the block, thinking they either weren't interested in the new hotness or were prevented from getting it, neither of which were good signs. This is also I don't agree with the theories that Toonami's going to start getting new stuff from Sentai, particularly Dubcasts of things like The Executioner and Her Way of Life. Buddy, we've played this game a dozen times before at least, and it's never turned out well for us. Why should I think things are about to change?

I am currently at peace with how Toonami is run, and the way the anime landscape currently is plays no small part in that. But also, I'm lucky enough to have never watched Primal and am currently soaking it in as a de facto Toonami original. Given how well it's rated, I bet a lot of people are following my lead.

[Jman]

The idea Toonami has to make originals is interesting.  I’m wondering if they were stick with pure original concepts or if they’ll do what Netflix does and adapt lesser known manga.  I mean if Netflix adapts Bastard!! DeMarco needs to adapt something similarly as cool.

[EmpressAngel]

Adapt the masterpiece that is My Balls, Toonami.

[ben0119]

On 5/29/2022 at 6:13 AM, Sketch said:

Common beliefs among Toonami critics:

1) Jason DeMarco has "old man" taste and doesn't look at anything new that isn't a popular shounen and he programs Toonami like his own personal MyAnimeList

2) Jason DeMarco, Gill Austin and Kim Manning wait till the last minute to pick shows whenever there's an opening on the horizon

3) When the popular shounen aren't available, Toonami's management would rather pick up nothing than go outside of their comfort zone

4) When Toonami was loading up with long runners they were missing opportunities to get other shows

I don't think Jason's statements here will be nearly enough to persuade Toonami critics because many will just say he's lying but he can't be much more transparent about the process than that.

They do regularly discuss what shows to get for Toonami and DeMarco does look a new anime that aren't shounen. In the past he's mentioned that they were unable to get KonoSuba, Shield Hero, The Ancient Magus Bride, Fairy Tale and Yuri on Ice among other shows. Who knows what other shows they wanted to get that they couldn't? I'm not sure what's a more distressing thought.. that Toonami wasn't interested in Blood Blockade Battlefront or that they wanted to get it but they couldn't.

Why then could all those big shounen air on Toonami? My theory is the companies involved (primarily the Japanese ones) wanted those shows on television most of all but they did have wait things out a bit for My Hero Academia despite that. Gundam and Lupin happened for similar reasons. Aniplex brought Neverland and Demon Slayer to the table because at the time Toonami had proven a successful partner with SAO, Kill la Kill and other series. Perhaps they felt burned from their exclusive deals with Hulu and Netflix and still considered Toonami a good partner in 2019 but now feel otherwise. After Neon Alley didn't pan out, in 2016 and 2018 Viz went all in on Toonami with the exception of Sailor Moon (which Toonami also wanted). I'm not sure why Toonami couldn't get YashaHime sooner but from the sound of it, Toonami would have gotten JoJo's Stone Ocean if Netflix hadn't butted in. So while Toonami was considering Made in Abyss, SSSS.Gridman and Assassination Classroom some time earlier than they got them, other opportunities swayed their hand.

We know Adult Swim has always run it's network "on the cheap" so with the exception of already huge titles like Attack on Titan (first season), DBZ Kai, DBS and My Hero Academia (in 2018) they probably got rather good deals on the shows they did air. So a serious problem Toonami could very well be facing now is that Sony has no interest in cutting them a deal for anything and the amount of money that might have sustained Toonami in prior years isn't enough to get as many shows now because the costs have gone up across the board. It might actually be becoming more affordable to make new shows than to borrow shows from licensors. It is evidently more affordable to make a new show than to license and dub an existing one according to DeMarco. I suppose that makes sense, you can set the budget of your own project but when you license a show from a Japanese company they can put whatever price they want to on it.

I do not envy their position and I'm not surprise they're "basically giving up" on trying to make Toonami fans "happy" because a sizable portion want the focus to stay on big shounen like Jujutsu Kaisen and Demon Slayer and the fans who have grown tired of the shounen onslaught want to see anything but more shounen. Its difficult to find a balance there especially when the shounen fans are much more vocal on Facebook and Twitter and the shounen haters mostly vent their frustrations on 4chan. They're probably better off not worrying about appeasing either faction. I'm sure they see the merits in having a variety of programming but it doesn't always work out that way.

I sure would love to listen in on even one of those conversations they have about potential show pick-ups.

I mean there are some truths to those criticisms.  Demarco has repeatedly said they don't air shows they don't like.  Demarco said he hates .hack, so that is why we never say any .hack shows.  This means he does run it like a personal MAL list to an extent, since even if a show has high demand from the audience, he won't air it if he and the others don't like it or are disinterested. 

They flat out refused to air .hack, Panty and Stocking, Darling in the Franxx, and Yugioh (at least makes sense since there is no uncut dub and it's still pretty kiddy even then, even if I like it), not because of money or availability, but because they didn't like the shows or felt they didn't fit the block.

Did he say they tried to get Fairy Tail and couldn't?  That show was demanded for years and then at one point Demarco said he had never even watched it.  He also got several other long-runners, when they could have gotten Fairy Tail instead, and even though they claimed they didn't want to have too many long-runners.  That screams more of being out of touch than "couldn't get" to me.

It doesn't help that Demarco has flip-flopped and bullshitted so many times.  It's hard to take him seriously.

For me, I would prefer variety.  There are some popular Shonens I would like to see, but I don't want the block to be all Shonens.  But at this point, I would just prefer they aired anything new to Toonami in general.  I can accept that I won't like every show they air.  I'd rather watch a new show that I don't like, than a rerun.  But no, you can't please everyone, but a little variety will help give something for most, and most will not be happy to watch reruns.

I don't expect that they wait til the last minute to get new shows.  You would think they have these deals planned and set up well ahead of time.  But with how shows keep ending with no replacements, it makes them look incompetent.  Remember they didn't even know that InuYasha's rights were expiring?  It makes you wonder how they even get around the office with their pants constantly down all the time.

If it is true that things have always been run "on the cheap" and most licensors don't want to cut Toonami deals anymore, then that is quite a problem.  I mean, surely they've had to pay up for at least some shows in the past, right?  Either way, you can't expect to get good deals for everything indefinitely.  Whatever the case, I hope this situation won't stop them from airing future SAO stuff.

Yeah I don't know why anyone would ever go on 4chan.

[Sketch]

To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe they started looking at Fairy Tail after DeMarco admitted he’d never watched it. We’ll never know if they had tried to get it before DeMarco watched any of it or if waiting a while made it harder to get it but sometimes deals just don’t work out.

I agree that variety should be a their focus, especially now. A variety of lesser known shows and original series are the only things they can use to attract an audience in the heat of the streaming age.

[MasqueradeOverture]

He's just waiting for a Crimes Of The Future extended universe fuck anime.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by MasqueradeOverture

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, Sketch said:

To give him the benefit of the doubt, maybe they started looking at Fairy Tail after DeMarco admitted he’d never watched it. We’ll never know if they had tried to get it before DeMarco watched any of it or if waiting a while made it harder to get it but sometimes deals just don’t work out.

I agree that variety should be a their focus, especially now. A variety of lesser known shows and original series are the only things they can use to attract an audience in the heat of the streaming age.

The fans had been requesting Fairy Tail for years and years before that.  It was consistently in the top 5 most requested shows, when Toonami used to post that.  Demarco clearly couldn't give a fuck if he didn't even bother to watch the show in all that time.  But, I never got the impression that they couldn't get the show.  Did he explicitly state this somewhere?  Given their rule about only airing shows they like, I can't see them trying to get Fairy Tail before Demarco even watched it, even if Gill had seen some of it.

All I can think of is Toonami didn't get Fairy Tail because of the bad animation in the first anime?  The final anime ended up having even worse animation, though, even if the art was nicer.  The second anime was the best done of them, and had decent animation.  I really don't think I have ever seen shows with worse animation than the first and final Fairy Tail animes, even if I did like the story and characters.  I really don't get why they were handled so poorly.

Those may also be some of their only options, if most of the big name shows are spoken for or too expensive.

[CountFrylock]

and.....AC concludes next week still without a replacement announced

even the most optimistic toonami fans aren't expecting much at this point

[Sketch]

1 hour ago, ben0119 said:

The fans had been requesting Fairy Tail for years and years before that.  It was consistently in the top 5 most requested shows, when Toonami used to post that.  Demarco clearly couldn't give a fuck if he didn't even bother to watch the show in all that time.  But, I never got the impression that they couldn't get the show.  Did he explicitly state this somewhere?  Given their rule about only airing shows they like, I can't see them trying to get Fairy Tail before Demarco even watched it, even if Gill had seen some of it.

All I can think of is Toonami didn't get Fairy Tail because of the bad animation in the first anime?  The final anime ended up having even worse animation, though, even if the art was nicer.  The second anime was the best done of them, and had decent animation.  I really don't think I have ever seen shows with worse animation than the first and final Fairy Tail animes, even if I did like the story and characters.  I really don't get why they were handled so poorly.

Those may also be some of their only options, if most of the big name shows are spoken for or too expensive.

He recently mentioned in a Twitter AMA that they tried multiple times to get Fairy Tail and each time the parties involved could not agree on the terms and the cost.

DeMarco definitely doesn’t watch every show they have considered for Toonami or aired on Toonami but if he hates or strongly dislikes a show then it’s not airing. He’s hardly the only person who doesn’t like Panty & Stocking and thought Darling in the Franxx went to shit. Arguably we dodged some bullets due to his veto power for whatever else it might have robbed us of. Some shows aired primarily because the staff liked them and the deals were good enough but there were surely other shows that were thrown their way that they hadn’t researched AT ALL which they put on the block. Admittedly some of which were picked up due to association with a known franchise.

I don’t think they hand picked SAO, Blue Exorcist, Akame ga Kill, Dimension W, Black Clover, Boruto and Fire Force. They hand picked Casshern Sins, Samurai 7, Soul Eater, Black Lagoon, Gurren Lagann, Hellsing Ultimate, Michiko & Hatchin, Pop Team Epic, Assassination Classroom, Gridman and Made in Abyss. I doubt they even knew much about Demon Slayer, Neverland and Dr. Stone when they got them.

There’s really no telling what they can actually afford or negotiate for now or what they have been trying to get in the past year.

I’m not at all surprised there hasn’t been an announcement yet, it’s probably happening this week. They didn’t even have the decency to run the Lupin promo before the tail end of the block the night MiA ended.

A Wednesday or Thursday announcement is par for the course so I’m not battening down the hatches till at least Friday but more than 11 days notice would be nice. It should be at least 14 days / 2 weeks notice.

[PokeNirvash]

2 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

and.....AC concludes next week still without a replacement announced

even the most optimistic toonami fans aren't expecting much at this point

And the most pessimistic fans think this has something to do with it.

Smells like bullshit to me personally.

[Jman]

1 hour ago, PokeNirvash said:

And the most pessimistic fans think this has something to do with it.

Smells like bullshit to me personally.

Well CW’s dismantling has been an open secret for a while now, with all their shows either being canceled or given finite end dates.  TBS and TNT no longer have original programming being made for them, with sports and programming from elsewhere filling the void.

[PokeNirvash]

The CW thing, I believe. But throwing [as] in there in the same breath just reeks of "I get off on throwing people into a panic", and that's why I'm trusting the "may" part of his Tweet more than the "my dad works at Nintendo" part.

Edited June 5, 2022 by PokeNirvash

[Blatch]

5 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

And the most pessimistic fans think this has something to do with it.

Smells like bullshit to me personally.

Ooh, this. I wondered if we were going to see a whole thread about it. I would've made it, but I figured I'd give it some time to see if anyone else felt a greater sense of doom. FWIW, at least one person who works for Warner Bros./Discovery has said it's bullshit. I'm expecting a similar message from DeMarco soon.

I mean, yeah, this is plausible, but both networks seem profitable enough as they are and I don't think getting rid of them would be practical. Not to mention, Warners isn't even the sole owner of The CW.

[CountFrylock]

9 hours ago, Blatch said:

Ooh, this. I wondered if we were going to see a whole thread about it. I would've made it, but I figured I'd give it some time to see if anyone else felt a greater sense of doom. FWIW, at least one person who works for Warner Bros./Discovery has said it's bullshit. I'm expecting a similar message from DeMarco soon.

I mean, yeah, this is plausible, but both networks seem profitable enough as they are and I don't think getting rid of them would be practical. Not to mention, Warners isn't even the sole owner of The CW.

also every time cartoon network gets an extra hour they proceed to do nothing except spam the same shows they usually do

there's no way they'd be able to fill 24 hours every single day without digging into the backlog and that's something they don't seem interested in doing