Putin: "Stick to the timeline!"

[matrixman124]

12 minutes ago, Jman said:

https://english.nv.ua/nation/russian-invaders-forbidden-to-retreat-under-threat-of-being-shot-intercept-shows-50270988.html

Russian troops are apparently being told to fight or die.

I can see them just throwing all their soldiers into the meat grinder but not nuking Ukraine.

[Master-Debater131]

20 minutes ago, Jman said:

https://english.nv.ua/nation/russian-invaders-forbidden-to-retreat-under-threat-of-being-shot-intercept-shows-50270988.html

Russian troops are apparently being told to fight or die.

The 3rd option here is to turn their guns on their commanders and either flee or surrender.

Which will likely start to happen sooner than later.

[Master-Debater131]

 

[katt_goddess]

4 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

Even Putin knows that the fallout would hit Russia too

When you are a tiny dying dictator, you still consider it a win if you kill off everyone around you just to spite the world. 

[matrixman124]

57 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

When you are a tiny dying dictator, you still consider it a win if you kill off everyone around you just to spite the world. 

It's all about self preservation at any cost. Nuking Ukraine is the opposite of that.

[katt_goddess]

21 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

It's all about self preservation at any cost. Nuking Ukraine is the opposite of that.

Not if you are dying though and have decided that you will be the last great leader of your little world. Then you look for the biggest monument to yourself that you can and you bury yourself with as many servants as possible.

A smoking radioactive hole in the ground is historical, you can't deny that. 

[matrixman124]

7 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

Not if you are dying though and have decided that you will be the last great leader of your little world. Then you look for the biggest monument to yourself that you can and you bury yourself with as many servants as possible.

A smoking radioactive hole in the ground is historical, you can't deny that. 

Putin isn't that dumb. There is no way that it would be seen as a victory. It benefits literally no one. The guy wants an empire, not a nuclear wasteland. 

[NewBluntsworth]

20 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

Not if you are dying though and have decided that you will be the last great leader of your little world. Then you look for the biggest monument to yourself that you can and you bury yourself with as many servants as possible.

A smoking radioactive hole in the ground is historical, you can't deny that. 

America is the crazed death cult that has actually used nuclear weapons in war before and recently "upgraded" its arsenal to include smaller "tactical" nukes making them easier/more likey to be deployed, America is the unaccountable empire which is constantly brutalizing anyone it wants to anywhere on the planet at the expense of literally countless millions of lives.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-dam-in-syria-was-on-a-no-strike-list-the-u-s-bombed-it-anyway/

This is but one example of how America operates, relevant because it took place in the *last* proxy war America waged against Russia just several years ago in Syria. So don't go moving my post just because I'm saying something critical of the American side in this phase of the America vs Russia war taking place in Ukraine at the moment.

This is America's war, this is the war they wanted to happen per its military, its "foreign policy" of global domination, and the people who rule America care exactly as much about the poor Ukrainians as they do about all those Syrians whose deaths we were willing to sacrifice during the course of our years-long war campaign there. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

3 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

America is the crazed death cult that has actually used nuclear weapons in war before and recently "upgraded" its arsenal to include smaller "tactical" nukes making them easier/more likey to be deployed, America is the unaccountable empire which is constantly brutalizing anyone it wants to anywhere on the planet at the expense of literally countless millions of lives.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/a-dam-in-syria-was-on-a-no-strike-list-the-u-s-bombed-it-anyway/

This is but one example of how America operates, relevant because it took place in the *last* proxy war America waged against Russia just several years ago in Syria. So don't go moving my post just because I'm saying something critical of the American side in this phase of the America vs Russia war taking place in Ukraine at the moment.

This is America's war, this is the war they wanted to happen per its military, its "foreign policy" of global domination, and the people who rule America care exactly as much about the poor Ukrainians as the which nearly precipitated all of those tens of thousands of deaths in Syria during the course of our years-long war campaign there. 

Yeah western hegemony is a certainly a problem, but Putin isn't just about defending Russia, the guy clearly dreams of building a new Russian Empire. His plans are falling apart. I don't think he will nuke himself or Ukraine. Right now he's doing everything he can to maintain his power. There's a reason oligarchs keep mysteriously dying and that's to keep them in line. Things are not looking great.

[scoobdog]

49 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

It's all about self preservation at any cost. Nuking Ukraine is the opposite of that.

Just a reminder... whether or not Putin has terminal cancer, he is clearly physically ailing.  That doesn't suggest that he is about to do something as reckless as starting a nuclear winter just to save face, however it does suggest that self-preservation isn't necessarily the principal component in his otherwise opaque thought process... particularly if he's suffering from any other maladies that might affect ones psychological profile.

[katt_goddess]

11 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Putin isn't that dumb. There is no way that it would be seen as a victory. It benefits literally no one. The guy wants an empire, not a nuclear wasteland. 

It depends on how sick he is and what exactly is being affected. There's plenty of evidence that shows people with brain damage from illnesses doing and thinking things that would be considered otherwise out of character or just batshit crazy. As a hypothetical, you have a guy who is spending his days attempting to return a country to a mythical former glory that it basically pitched in the trash back in the 80's, surrounded by people who more and more are distancing themselves from him because otherwise windows mysteriously open up and spit bodies on the pavement, he's internally fighting something that he might not win and has no one he'd trust to carry on the 'noble' work when he passes on, and his easy win against another country is being spanked by farmers and tractors. If you think about it in terms of brain damage, there is nothing to really keep him from doing something truly horrible if his one remaining brain cell decides a blaze of glory is the only option. 

I'm not advocating for it, I'm stating the potential of it. It's like the idiot who decides their biggest statement is going to be suicide by cop but first they are going to shoot as many people as possible to really get their name in the news. 

[tsar4]

1 hour ago, katt_goddess said:

When you are a tiny dying dictator, you still consider it a win if you kill off everyone around you just to spite the world. 

The "Sampson" option - Bring the house down on everyone, including yourself.

[NewBluntsworth]

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Putin isn't just about defending Russia, the guy clearly dreams of building a new Russian Empire

How is that clear? The eastern regions of Ukraine have been been waging war against US-backed Nazi militias and/including the Ukrainian military ever since the US-backed coup in 2014, they invited Russia in and want to be part of Russia and not this US-backed govt they've been battling for years now.

Ukraine would rather continue the civil war it's been waging on its own citizens for years and stamp out dissent than cede any amount of territory to Russia, fine, that's fine, let's just have a small little tactical nuclear war over it, that's definitely worth it to prevent the dangerous new Russian empire~! Thank God for America once again going to war to prove some stupid point that always only ever seems very important to its aging white guys. 

 

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Yeah western hegemony is a certainly a problem, but

Lol.

It's The great problem of our time but ok

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[scoobdog]

Just now, katt_goddess said:

It depends on how sick he is and what exactly is being affected. There's plenty of evidence that shows people with brain damage from illnesses doing and thinking things that would be considered otherwise out of character or just batshit crazy. As a hypothetical, you have a guy who is spending his days attempting to return a country to a mythical former glory that it basically pitched in the trash back in the 80's, surrounded by people who more and more are distancing themselves from him because otherwise windows mysteriously open up and spit bodies on the pavement, he's internally fighting something that he might not win and has no one he'd trust to carry on the 'noble' work when he passes on, and his easy win against another country is being spanked by farmers and tractors. If you think about it in terms of brain damage, there is nothing to really keep him from doing something truly horrible if his one remaining brain cell decides a blaze of glory is the only option. 

I'm not advocating for it, I'm stating the potential of it. It's like the idiot who decides their biggest statement is going to be suicide by cop but first they are going to shoot as many people as possible to really get their name in the news. 

It's always dangerous and irresponsible to tie a psychological disorder to such an over display of megalomania, particularly since no disorder (even schizophrenia) creates a truly destructive personality on its own.  For instance, even if he were to be suffering from a form of dementia where his intellectual capacity is severely compromised, he isn't likely to suddenly "learn" psychopathic traits.  Even in severe cases where the condition leads to severe depression and suicide, one's drive toward self-preservation isn't suddenly disengaged.  It's simply a matter of suicide being the the least painful path forward.  In this case, It's unlikely that Putin is truly suicidal.

[NewBluntsworth]

Russia, finally intervening in the Nazi orc fuckery the CIA has been cooking up Isengard style along its border at the invitation of the local leadership - OMG This insane suicidal psychopathic cancer riddled warmongering madman is going to nuke the world if he doesn't get his grand new Russian empire! Why would he do all this, wage a whole war 100% offensively for imperial reasons and not at all in self defense as a predictable, intentional result of endless provocations from the American empire at all. 

It's Russia that is the dangerous empire here.

Not the only actual empire on the planet. Not that one.

"It's certainly a problem, but" Saddam Gaddafi Assad Chavez Maduro Morales Xi Putin and on and on, everywhere across the planet. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[Top Gun]

Nabs why is it that the only thing you can do here is parrot shitty Kremlin propaganda?

[matrixman124]

15 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Russia, finally intervening in the Nazi orc fuckery the CIA has been cooking up Isengard style along its border at the invitation of the local leadership - OMG This insane suicidal psychopathic cancer riddled warmongering madman is going to nuke the world if he doesn't get his grand new Russian empire! Why would he do all this, wage a whole war 100% offensively for imperial reasons and not at all in self defense as a predictable, intentional result of endless provocations from the American empire at all. 

It's Russia that is the dangerous empire here.

Not the only actual empire on the planet. Not that one.

"It's certainly a problem, but" Saddam Gaddafi Assad Chavez Maduro Morales Xi Putin and on and on, everywhere across the planet. 

Literally the amount of actual Nazis in Ukraine is negligible. It's just an excuse to create just cause for the invasion. 

[matrixman124]

27 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

How is that clear? The eastern regions of Ukraine have been been waging war against US-backed Nazi militias and/including the Ukrainian military ever since the US-backed coup in 2014, they invited Russia in and want to be part of Russia and not this US-backed govt they've been battling for years now.

Ukraine would rather continue the civil war it's been waging on its own citizens for years and stamp out dissent than cede any amount of territory to Russia, fine, that's fine, let's just have a small little tactical nuclear war over it, that's definitely worth it to prevent the dangerous new Russian empire~! Thank God for America once again going to war to prove some stupid point that always only ever seems very important to its aging white guys. 

 

Lol.

It's The great problem of our time but ok

The problem isn't just western hegemony, bro. It's not so black and white.

[NewBluntsworth]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

Literally the amount of actual Nazis in Ukraine is negligible

No. 

[NewBluntsworth]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

The problem isn't just western hegemony, bro. It's not so black and white.

 

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

No. 

 

[matrixman124]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

No. 

Proof that isn't from RT please

[matrixman124]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

 

 

LOL I guess ultraconservative Russia with it's police state is just honky dory.

[NewBluntsworth]

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Proof that isn't from RT please

Reality? My own lying eyes? Literally any source pre-2022?

Hell here, and this reuters one downplays it like a mf tbh

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://jacobin.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato

 

Recent Jacobin one provides some essential US imperialist context. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth
Link fixed

[NewBluntsworth]

The larger point isn't "Nazis are trump card evil", there weren't Nazis in Syria aside from whatever assorted US goons meet that criteria, there were salafists and mercenaries and US military and all manner of far right terrorists who the US directly armed to fight the Russian-backed Syrian government. Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2016 on shooting down Russian planes in Syria... The US military empire is the trump card evil. We are constantly waging war all over the planet. We back the salafists and the Nazis and the Zionists and give all the weapons of war we make to all the worst fascists and right wing extremists we can find, and their victims and the rest of the world have to deal with it. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[Seight]

*signs in*

*sees that the Putin: "Stick to the timeline!" thread is in HOT*

"Ah neat, Nabs is here then!" *makes Kettle Corn*

[NewBluntsworth]

22 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

LOL I guess ultraconservative Russia with it's police state is just honky dory.

Russia is a hell hole that we created. We did that shit, all of it, from the fall of the USSR on, from the refusal to humor mutual disarmament in good faith. Putin was our boy. I mean come on you're only further indicting US imperialism here. 

[matrixman124]

13 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Reality? My own lying eyes? Literally any source pre-2022?

Hell here, and this reuters one downplays it like a mf tbh

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY

https://jacobin.com/2022/01/cia-neo-nazi-training-ukraine-russia-putin-biden-nato

 

Recent Jacobin one provides some essential US imperialist context. 

Like clearly there are Neo-Nazis fighting for Ukraine, yes. Were they trained by the CIA? Yeah, probably. There is precedent there.

But here is the problem. Putin claims that Ukraine is run by Nazis and they are not. He is grossly exaggerating their presence to justify the invasion. It is an excuse for imperial expansion by Russia.

You are swallowing propaganda being fed to you.

 

[scoobdog]

15 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Proof that isn't from RT please

It would be impossible to prove one way or another.  The thing is, ultra-nationalism (and the racism it represents) is a problem for just about every country, and the country's ability to fight it tends to correlate with its ability to negotiate factions.  What this discussion about new-nazis in the Ukraine typically ignores is what tends to drive the racial animus that fuels it, particularly an insurgency by Russian separatists for the better part of two decades.  Neo-Nazis tend to adopt the same proverbial uniform of anti-semitism, "color" racism, xenophobia and religious fundamentalism regardless of the local schism that gives them a place to nest.  It's this profoundly bigoted framework that connects these dissimilar causes and gives the impression that outside forces are manipulating the locals.

[matrixman124]

5 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

The larger point isn't "Nazis are trump card evil", there weren't Nazis in Syria aside from whatever assorted US goons meet that criteria, there were salafists and mercenaries and US military and all manner of far right terrorists who the US directly armed to fight the Russian-backed Syrian government. Hillary Clinton campaigned in 2016 on shooting down Russian planes in Syria... The US military empire is the trump card evil. We are constantly waging war all over the planet. We back the salafists and the Nazis and the Zionists and give all the weapons of war we make to all the worst fascists and right wing extremists we can find, and their victims and the rest of the world have to deal with it. 

Bruh, why you gotta even mention the Zionists.

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

...Were they trained by the CIA? Yeah, probably. There is precedent there.

Please elaborate.  Do you mean prior to or post invasion?

[matrixman124]

3 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

Russia is a hell hole that we created. We did that shit, all of it, from the fall of the USSR on, from the refusal to humor mutual disarmament in good faith. Putin was our boy. I mean come on you're only further indicting US imperialism here. 

Russia is certainly a hellhole that was created by Western hegemony. For sure. And that should not absolve it from being a belligerent nation seeking empire.

[NewBluntsworth]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

Bruh, why you gotta even mention the Zionists.

Because what Israel is doing to Palestine with endless US support continues to be bad and that should me mentioned sometimes in the context of bad actors and regimes around the world who the US military arms and supports...?

[matrixman124]

Just now, scoobdog said:

Please elaborate.  Do you mean prior to or post invasion?

It's in the Jacobin article. It talks about how the Azov regiment which is a Neo-Nazi milita that got absorbed into the Ukrainian military was among the many soldiers (not just Nazis) trained by the CIA to defend against Russia. As I believe you stated it's really an ultranationalist problem which of course Ukraine has that problem when  Russia has been salivating to take it back into it's sphere.

[NewBluntsworth]

3 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

But here is the problem. Putin claims that Ukraine is run by Nazis and they are not. He is grossly exaggerating their presence to justify the invasion. It is an excuse for imperial expansion by Russia.

All I said was your claim that Nazis are negligible is incorrect and you seem to be acknowledging that now, Russian propaganda has no bearing on that fact. There was a whole right wing coup in 2014....Right Sector, many different Nazi militias, a literal right wing US-backed coup that ousted the elected government.... I mean this is some serious Nazi shit brewing. 

[matrixman124]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

All I said was your claim that Nazis are negligible is incorrect and you seem to be acknowledging that now, Russian propaganda has no bearing on that fact. There was a whole right wing coup in 2014....Right Sector, many different Nazi militias, a literal right wing US-backed coup that ousted the elected government.... I mean this is some serious Nazi shit brewing. 

It is negligible. It's one regimen that apparently represents all of the Ukrainian army in your eyes.

Do you honestly believe that Russia is there to help Ukraine?

Germany invaded Austria to liberate its expatriates too. And a lot of folks called for non-intervention in Europe to let the actual Nazis do whatever they wanted. Germany also wanted to regain its past glory.

Legit, what do you think is Putin's endgame here?

[scoobdog]

1 minute ago, matrixman124 said:

It's in the Jacobin article. It talks about how the Azov regiment which is a Neo-Nazi milita that got absorbed into the Ukrainian military was among the many soldiers (not just Nazis) trained by the CIA to defend against Russia. As I believe you stated it's really an ultranationalist problem which of course Ukraine has that problem when  Russia has been salivating to take it back into it's sphere.

Just checking.  FWIW, that Jacobin sight is a fairly suspect source because it tends to parrot an anti-imperialist agenda with little to no substantiation.  I find it fairly unlikely the CIA would have ever been involved with the Ukrainian regular army given the skill sets they provide are ill-suited to combat.  The logic most likely holds that there were ultra-nationalists taught by US soldiers, possibly Special Operators, in the build up to the conflict, but the fact that the US Government has privately expressed concern about them having access to military hardware should be a good indicator that some guardrails are in place.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, scoobdog said:

Just checking.  FWIW, that Jacobin sight is a fairly suspect source because it tends to parrot an anti-imperialist agenda with little to no substantiation.  I find it fairly unlikely the CIA would have ever been involved with the Ukrainian regular army given the skill sets they provide are ill-suited to combat.  The logic most likely holds that there were ultra-nationalists taught by US soldiers, possibly Special Operators, in the build up to the conflict, but the fact that the US Government has privately expressed concern about them having access to military hardware should be a good indicator that some guardrails are in place.

I mean we are actively arming Ukraine against Russia. We have armed and trained questionable militias against Russian hegemony for the duration of the Cold War. Again, Western hegemony is a problem.... BUT so is Russia!

 

[NewBluntsworth]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

It is negligible

No.

Just now, matrixman124 said:

It's one regimen that apparently represents all of the Ukrainian army in your eyes.

It's not just Azov guys idk why you're hung up on that, they were just one of many Nazi militias that fought to overturn the elected government in 2014, that Nazi-backed right wing insurrection. Azov is a small part of the problem. This is like you saying there's only one "bad" police dept in America or something bc it got caught acting too proud of being full of Nazis, like come on. Putin seizing on something that is real and and spinning self serving propaganda from it doesn't negate that thing from being real. 

5 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Do you honestly believe that Russia is there to help Ukraine?

Well the Russians are ostensibly there to help the Russian-Ukrainians in the vast east territories, which essentially seceded from Ukraine following the right wing coup in 2014, but yes obviously they have their own natl security interests just like all nation states. 

8 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Legit, what do you think is Putin's endgame here?

Not having a US-military backed, NATO-backed puppet state full of CIA-trained Nazis who just did a coup and overthrew their government to bring in a more US-friendly regime directly on its border? Within missile range of Moscow? In the face of ever-increasing direct provocations from the superpower empire that has wanted to destroy it for about 100 years? Like come on. Not sure what you're asking here but no I'm not saying Putin is good or his kayfabe about de-Nazifying is true but neither is this "Nazis are a negligible problem in Ukraine suddenly, despite all the armed Nazi militias doing Nazi shit"

[NewBluntsworth]

10 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

mean we are actively arming Ukraine against Russia. We have armed and trained questionable militias against Russian hegemony for the duration of the Cold War

....and in Syria extremely recently! That was like the main thing we did there, find fake "moderate" rebel terrorists who wanted to blow up cosmopolitan Damascus because it had gay nightclubs and establish a caliphate/perpetual war zone a la Libya.

That's our shit, that's what we do. Find the worst pieces of shit and arm them so they can cause war and mayhem for our enemies, I mean that's not even an exaggeration, just.. historically, that's what we do, that's what we're doing now with these fucking Nazis in Ukraine

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

No.

It's not just Azov guys idk why you're hung up on that, they were just one of many Nazi militias that fought to overturn the elected government in 2014, that Nazi-backed right wing insurrection. Azov is a small part of the problem. This is like you saying there's only one "bad" police dept in America or something bc it got caught acting too proud of being full of Nazis, like come on. Putin seizing on something that is real and and spinning self serving propaganda from it doesn't negate that thing from being real. 

Well the Russians are ostensibly there to help the Russian-Ukrainians in the vast east territories, which essentially seceded from Ukraine following the right wing coup in 2014, but yes obviously they have their own natl security interests just like all nation states. 

Not having a US-military backed, NATO-backed puppet state full of CIA-trained Nazis who just did a coup and overthrew their government to bring in a more US-friendly regime directly on its border? Within missile range of Moscow? In the face of ever-increasing direct provocations from the superpower empire that has wanted to destroy it for about 100 years? Like come on. Not sure what you're asking here but no I'm not saying Putin is good or his kayfabe about de-Nazifying is true but neither is this "Nazis are a negligible problem in Ukraine suddenly, despite all the armed Nazi militias doing Nazi shit"

I'm talking about Azov because it's what the two articles you cited are about. They don't mention this 2014 coup which I guess I have to look up.

You seriously think that Putin will take Kyiv and "purge all of the Nazis" and leave. Okay, boss. Whatever you say.

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, NewBluntsworth said:

....and in Syria extremely recently! That was like the main thing we did there, find fake "moderate" rebel terrorists who wanted to blow up cosmopolitan Damascus because it had gay nightclubs and establish a caliphate/perpetual war zone a la Libya.

That's our shit, that's what we do. Find the worst pieces of shit and arm them so they can cause war and mayhem for our enemies, I mean that's not even an exaggeration, just.. historically, that's what we do, that's what we're doing now with these fucking Nazis in Ukraine

Again, you are acting like the entire Ukrainian army is made of Nazis. The article you cited mentions some Neo-Nazi militias WHICH IS A PROBLEM. But Ukraine is not being run by Neo-Nazis. You have offered zero proof of that.

[tsar4]

[matrixman124]

1 minute ago, tsar4 said:

Yeah thanks. Solid B here

[scoobdog]

12 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean we are actively arming Ukraine against Russia. We have armed and trained questionable militias against Russian hegemony for the duration of the Cold War. Again, Western hegemony is a problem.... BUT so is Russia!

 

It will always be a problem as a side effect of our hyper vigilance in fighting the Cold War, and our hyper enthusiastic embrace of globalization for profit, and our overreaction to the catastrophic results of the Holocaust. Hegemony is the by product of hubris, but our sins are not comparable to the Russians.

[scoobdog]

Also, what’s the connection to Syria other than sharing the same barbaric Russian general?

[NewBluntsworth]

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

You seriously think that Putin will take Kyiv and "purge all of the Nazis" and leave. Okay, boss. Whatever you say

No, not at all, that is all fake Russian propaganda, never have I said this, that's not the purpose of this war despite what Russian PR says, and etc etc

13 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I'm talking about Azov because it's what the two articles you cited are about. They don't mention this 2014 coup which I guess I have to look up

True Azov is most prominent now but there were various regional and local Nazi militias, the Ukrainian military incorporated these Nazis into their military after 2014 because they were good at war. I would def recommend looking up that coup for context as there has been fighting raging in eastern Ukraine all this time. 

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604

Ukrainian ISIS, etc. 

Check out this Oliver Stone documentary, highly recommend. Lot of information and footage of the protests & clashes providing vital context for what we're seeing there today. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_on_Fire

US went into Ukraine, set up multiple "free media" propaganda outlets attacking the Ukrainian govt for being too cozy w Russia and not enough with the west, blaming this for people's grievances and impoverishment, circulating CIA propaganda and whipping up Right Sector and the Nazis we're in bed with to take advantage of the inspired mass protests and help overthrow the govt. 

Edited September 20, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

11 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

Ukraine is not being run by Neo-Nazis. You have offered zero proof of that.

I have also never made that claim, stop constructing strawmen. Of course it isn't being "run" by Nazis, that isn't the role of these violent Nazi militias, also many in the military may not be an outright member of a Nazi militia but again, Nazi is just one kind of terrible thing to be, and the American empire is big tent evil.

The Nazis are being utilized for war and  establishing a right wing culture of Nazi shit in America's new proxy state, that's who is fighting prominently on the side America is backing in this war no matter how much Americans want to blindly downplay it. 

[matrixman124]

2 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

No, not at all, that is all fake Russian propaganda, never have I said this, that's not the purpose of this war despite what Russian PR says, and etc etc

True Azov is most prominent now but there were various regional and local Nazi militias, the Ukrainian military incorporated these Nazis into their military after 2014 because they were good at war. I would def recommend looking up that coup for context as there has been fighting raging in eastern Ukraine all this time. 

https://www.newsweek.com/evidence-war-crimes-committed-ukrainian-nationalist-volunteers-grows-269604

Ukrainian ISIS, etc. 

Check out this Oliver Stone documentary, highly recommend. Lot of information and footage of the protests & clashes providing vital context for what we're seeing there today. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_on_Fire

US went into Ukraine, set up multiple "free media" propaganda outlets attacking the Ukrainian govt for being too cozy w Russia and not enough with the west, blaming this for people's grievances and impoverishment, circulating CIA propaganda and whipping up Right Sector and the Nazis we're in bed with to take advantage of the inspired mass protests and overthrow the govt. 

The problem here was ultranationalism. We backed the pro-west ultranationalists and Russia backed the pro-Russia ultranationalists and the pro-west ones won out. This film features interviews with Putin and the ousted PM who was pro-Russia. It's not exactly an unbiased documentary.

[matrixman124]

Just now, NewBluntsworth said:

I have also never made that claim, stop constructing strawmen. Of course it isn't being "run" by Nazis, that isn't the role of these violent Nazi militias, also many in the military may not be an outright member of a Nazi militia but again, Nazi is just one kind of terrible thing to be, and the American empire is big tent evil.

The Nazis are being utilized for war and  establishing a right wing culture of Nazi shit in America's new proxy state, that's who is fighting prominently on the side America is backing in this war no matter how much Americans want to blindly downplay it. 

Then why do you keep trying to justify Putin invading and violating Ukraine's sovereignty?

[NewBluntsworth]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

The problem here was ultranationalism. We backed the pro-west ultranationalists and Russia backed the pro-Russia ultranationalists and the pro-west ones won out. This film features interviews with Putin and the ousted PM who was pro-Russia. It's not exactly an unbiased documentary.

Putin being interviewed, telling you in own words what he thinks of the US & Nazi-backed coup on his border...that doesn't interest you to hear...? I learned a lot from watching it I'll just say that.