gen:Lock creator Gray Haddock resigns from Rooster Teeth, Season 2 in major doubt

[Jman]

gray (@graymartigan) Tweeted:

Given some inquires, I feel I ought to relay I parted ways with RT recently. We've left the door open to the possibility of my doing creative work for them down the road. Meanwhile, I'm off to pursue new projects, and will keep you posted. I wish everyone in RTanim the best.

 

There was no way to know that six weeks ago, but Gundam The Origin definitely had way more upside.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Jman

[The1gairon]

Given how it's currently airing on cable, this is NOT great timing at all.

I linked to an article today in the last episode thread about how they're doing mass layoffs due to restructuring, but we all know it's actually because of the buyout. The CEO resigning is a total surprise to me though.

[ben0119]

https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/rooster-teeth-layoffs-13-percent-warnermedia-1203333556/

They actually fired 50 people.  Don't think they would fire this guy, though?  So not sure why he left.  And he's not the CEO.  The CEO is the guy that posted that message you linked to, Elfie.  Rooster Teeth has gone corporate, it seems.  Just look at how this message is written -

https://roosterteeth.com/post/52071476

And yup, Demarco dun goofed again!  How does Toonami always manage to stumble into these situations?

[The1gairon]

What do you mean it seems?? They DID go corporate due to the Warner Media buyout.

[Top Gun]

...how did they "goof"? They paid for a season, and they aired that season.  There was never any promise made of airing more. 

 

Regardless this sucks. I've been enjoying the series. 

Edited September 14, 2019 by Top Gun

[The1gairon]

Just now, Top Gun said:

...how did they "goof"? They paid for a season, and they aired that season. 

 

Regardless this sucks. I've been enjoying the series. 

i-- it's ben.

Edited September 14, 2019 by elfie

[Jman]

46 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

...how did they "goof"? They paid for a season, and they aired that season.  There was never any promise made of airing more. 

 

Regardless this sucks. I've been enjoying the series. 

It’s not a goof, because they can’t predict the future.  It is very bad luck though.  The sad thing is that their plan to use Toonami to hype a season 2 was apparently working given the ratings.  I mean I complained about the promotion neglecting the show’s biggest strength but people were taking to it.

That’s the way the production crumbles though.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Jman

[OwlChemist81]

I don't think the prospects of Season 2 of gen:LOCK are completely shot yet. It COULD be that it's already "complete" but this stuff came down after it was produced. Or perhaps it would be a co-production between Gray Haddock and Rooster Teeth. Gill said something interesting on the August 30th edition of Pre-Flight, that there was some kind of forthcoming announcement regarding it. I wonder what that was all about...?

[Jman]

Rumors (key word RUMORS) are that gen:Lock’s underperformance when it was an online exclusive are the reasons for the layoffs, making the likelihood of a season 2 all the slimmer.

[Daos]

I knew this show was in trouble when I.... looked at it.

[The1gairon]

2 hours ago, Jman said:

Rumors (key word RUMORS) are that gen:Lock’s underperformance when it was an online exclusive are the reasons for the layoffs, making the likelihood of a season 2 all the slimmer.

Underperformance where?? Online on their site? Toonami?

How would they measure whether it's a success? They can't use Neilson ratings (at least not immediately). Why blame Toonami, a third-party that has nothing whatsoever to do with the show's affiliates?

The Warner Media buyout sounds a lot more sensible.

Edited September 15, 2019 by elfie

[OwlChemist81]

The topical tonight for the final episode used the words "season finale."

Season 2 confirmed??

[Top Gun]

It would not surprise me at all to see [as] provide funding to get a season 2 made as a Toonami exclusive if they feel that there's profit in doing so.  That may have been the original plan regardless, though the main creative force behind the series essentially leaving RT would obviously make that very difficult.

[ben0119]

14 hours ago, Top Gun said:

...how did they "goof"? They paid for a season, and they aired that season.  There was never any promise made of airing more. 

 

Regardless this sucks. I've been enjoying the series. 

Dude it was obvious Toonami was trying to get in on something here.  They even advertised next week's episode as the season finale.

But now it's all gone to crap.

[Top Gun]

If that was their plan, they had no way of knowing this would happen, and it happening still doesn't guarantee that further episodes aren't made if someone's willing to pay for them.  Tell me, do the histrionics ever get old?

[ben0119]

Ideally one tries to make business deals with stable partners.  Would Toonami really get this just to air the first season, and not also to get in on the second one when it's fresh?  It also seems odd for the firings to happen and show creator to leave when the show is on TV.  If anything you'd think the show was at its peak of success and hype now!

More episodes without the original creator?  Eeehhhh.  Well unless he left a whole slew of  finished scripts with Rooster Teeth when he left.  And assuming he wasn't integral to other aspects of the show besides the writing.  Some shit really must have hit the fan for this guy to abandon ship and give up on the show he created and "move on to pursue other projects."  People typically don't like to give up on creative projects they started.  I'm sure he would want to work on other things eventually, but not before he finished Gen:Lock.  Somethin' musta' happened.

Edited September 15, 2019 by ben0119

[Jman]

If Clownfish TV is to be believed (and they are a bit...sensationalist), gen:Lock went crazy over time and budget leading to massive crunch, and the show underperforming because it was only available on the Rooster Teeth first app (and later on VRV and Crunchyroll).  

Of course RT, being something of a good old boys club, was perfectly on board with having a Season 2 despite this, with Toonami airing Season 1 to build demand.

Then Business Daddy came in.

WarnerMedia asked what the hell, and Haddock was dumped and gen:Lock is done.

[The1gairon]

7 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Ideally one tries to make business deals with stable partners.  Would Toonami really get this just to air the first season, and not also to get in on the second one when it's fresh?  It also seems odd for the firings to happen and show creator to leave when the show is on TV.  If anything you'd think the show was at its peak of success and hype now!

More episodes without the original creator?  Eeehhhh.  Well unless he left a whole slew of  finished scripts with Rooster Teeth when he left.  And assuming he wasn't integral to other aspects of the show besides the writing.  Some shit really must have hit the fan for this guy to abandon ship and give up on the show he created and "move on to pursue other projects."  People typically don't like to give up on creative projects they started.  I'm sure he would want to work on other things eventually, but not before he finished Gen:Lock.  Somethin' musta' happened.

that's what's so shocking about this. All signs surrounding him pointed to him staying on board for a Season 2 even MORE than even a month ago!

[Sketch]

Oooph. Even if they can do another season, I don't know if it's a good idea to do it without Gray involved.

I'm all for Adult Swim funding a second season but chances of that happening look pretty slim. Maybe the planned Blu-ray release (if it still happens) won't tank.

[Jman]

6 hours ago, Sketch said:

Oooph. Even if they can do another season, I don't know if it's a good idea to do it without Gray involved.

I'm all for Adult Swim funding a second season but chances of that happening look pretty slim. Maybe the planned Blu-ray release (if it still happens) won't tank.

Toonami can barely afford to pay for licenses.  gen:Lock, a proven flop for streaming, not only has animation, but a celebrity cast that costs a LOT of money (and DeMarco in his infinite logic hasn’t mentioned once).  And I’m pretty sure their contracts won’t let DeMarco just recast them with the usual VA talent pools.

So I’m going to go and say we’re probably not going to see a season 2.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Jman

[Jman]

On 9/15/2019 at 4:55 AM, ben0119 said:

Ideally one tries to make business deals with stable partners.  Would Toonami really get this just to air the first season, and not also to get in on the second one when it's fresh?  It also seems odd for the firings to happen and show creator to leave when the show is on TV.  If anything you'd think the show was at its peak of success and hype now!

More episodes without the original creator?  Eeehhhh.  Well unless he left a whole slew of  finished scripts with Rooster Teeth when he left.  And assuming he wasn't integral to other aspects of the show besides the writing.  Some shit really must have hit the fan for this guy to abandon ship and give up on the show he created and "move on to pursue other projects."  People typically don't like to give up on creative projects they started.  I'm sure he would want to work on other things eventually, but not before he finished Gen:Lock.  Somethin' musta' happened.

They are all part of the same corporate structure.  And with the focus on integration getting it was easy.  Unfortunately for Rooster Teeth, that also means answering to Business Daddy AT&T.  Losing your money is one thing.  Losing the parent company’s is another.

[ben0119]

On 9/15/2019 at 9:19 AM, Jman said:

If Clownfish TV is to be believed (and they are a bit...sensationalist), gen:Lock went crazy over time and budget leading to massive crunch, and the show underperforming because it was only available on the Rooster Teeth first app (and later on VRV and Crunchyroll).  

Of course RT, being something of a good old boys club, was perfectly on board with having a Season 2 despite this, with Toonami airing Season 1 to build demand.

Then Business Daddy came in.

WarnerMedia asked what the hell, and Haddock was dumped and gen:Lock is done.

I've seen their videos in my recommended before and rolled my eyes.  I looked at their feed.  They've got lots of videos complaining about Star Wars, Disney, Marvel, there's two video thumbnails with Zoe Quinn that they photoshopped having evil glowing eyes.  I'm not sure how much we can take them seriously.  But just looking at this video, they seemed pretty "normal" and just laid out the information they had.  If that stuff is all true, then yeah, not good, and signs that were pointing towards this coming to a head sooner or later.  Don't know how widely this was known or if Toonami would have known about it though.

 

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

They are all part of the same corporate structure.  And with the focus on integration getting it was easy.  Unfortunately for Rooster Teeth, that also means answering to Business Daddy AT&T.  Losing your money is one thing.  Losing the parent company’s is another.

Demarco had said before that companies still acted very separate and it wasn't really easier to get stuff that was in the hands of a sister company.  I think that came up with JoJo?  But I guess that has changed now.  Yeah they definitely weren't careful with their money!  Apparently this Gray guy was constantly changing and redoing things that were already finished!

[ben0119]

8 hours ago, Jman said:

Toonami can barely afford to pay for licenses.  gen:Lock, a proven flop for streaming, not only has animation, but a celebrity cast that costs a LOT of money (and DeMarco in his infinite logic hasn’t mentioned once).  And I’m pretty sure their contracts won’t let DeMarco just recast them with the usual VA talent pools.

So I’m going to go and say we’re probably not going to see a season 2.

THAT animation cost a lot of money?

[Jman]

4 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

THAT animation cost a lot of money?

No, but David Tenant, Dakota Fanning, the girl that played Arya Stark, and Michael B. Jordan all in the same broadcast do.

[Jman]

6 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Demarco had said before that companies still acted very separate and it wasn't really easier to get stuff that was in the hands of a sister company.  I think that came up with JoJo?  But I guess that has changed now.  Yeah they definitely weren't careful with their money!  Apparently this Gray guy was constantly changing and redoing things that were already finished!

Actually yes.  AT&T, as part of their purchase of Warner, has undergone a massive restructuring where the old way of allowing each division to function as a separate company and encouraging intra-company rivalries was tossed out in favor of mass integration.  Divisions are now being consolidated (with the rumor both Rooster Teeth and Ellation will be folded into Cartoon Network studios) to save money and allow for more easy mass distribution, symbolized by HBO Max offering viewers HBO, DC Universe, freaking Crunchyroll, and stuff from the WB library.

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

Actually yes.  AT&T, as part of their purchase of Warner, has undergone a massive restructuring where the old way of allowing each division to function as a separate company and encouraging intra-company rivalries was tossed out in favor of mass integration.  Divisions are now being consolidated (with the rumor both Rooster Teeth and Ellation will be folded into Cartoon Network studios) to save money and allow for more easy mass distribution, symbolized by HBO Max offering viewers HBO, DC Universe, freaking Crunchyroll, and stuff from the WB library.

The intra-company rivalries were encouraged?!  Who would have thought AT&T of all companies would make things more logical.  This should make getting some shows easier for Toonami then, and easier to watch some of this stuff in general.  Hmm HBO Max sounds more appealing when you talk about it like that.  Though I have to say I really have no interest in the HBO stuff itself.  But we never had HBO either.  I always remember in the old days, with those premium networks, they'd put all the good stuff on their free previews, when the channel would be on everyone's channel listing for a weekend or week or whatever it was, then when you got the actual channel it was crap.  Although apparently AT&T is in debt and received criticism for its decisions?  I hope it all doesn't come crashing down like a house of cards.

[The1gairon]

9 hours ago, Jman said:

No, but David Tenant, Dakota Fanning, the girl that played Arya Stark, and Michael B. Jordan all in the same broadcast do.

Jordan's company co-produced it. I think he's pretty upset about this too.

[The1gairon]

8 hours ago, ben0119 said:

The intra-company rivalries were encouraged?!  Who would have thought AT&T of all companies would make things more logical.  This should make getting some shows easier for Toonami then, and easier to watch some of this stuff in general.  Hmm HBO Max sounds more appealing when you talk about it like that.  Though I have to say I really have no interest in the HBO stuff itself.  But we never had HBO either.  I always remember in the old days, with those premium networks, they'd put all the good stuff on their free previews, when the channel would be on everyone's channel listing for a weekend or week or whatever it was, then when you got the actual channel it was crap.  Although apparently AT&T is in debt and received criticism for its decisions?  I hope it all doesn't come crashing down like a house of cards.

This makes people believe all the more that VRV is gonna die soon. There's really no more need to have them run shows you can just watch elsewhere.

[Daos]

13 hours ago, Jman said:

No, but David Tenant, Dakota Fanning, the girl that played Arya Stark, and Michael B. Jordan all in the same broadcast do.

Paying for top tier talent for a show like this doesn't make any sense to me. You can hire pros from the regular anime industry that probably work for 1/10th the cost and are actually better voice actors.

 

[Jman]

3 hours ago, Daos said:

Paying for top tier talent for a show like this doesn't make any sense to me. You can hire pros from the regular anime industry that probably work for 1/10th the cost and are actually better voice actors.

 

It makes sense if you actually use them.  If you have them do the talk show circuit and mention the show.  How hard would it be for Asia-Kate Dillon to go on a show and go “Yeah, I’m doing two new projects, Billions’ new season and this kickass cartoon called gen:Lock”?  If the Toonami promos go “Michael B. Jordan and David Tenant star in - gen:Lock!”

But we have DeMarco and his galaxy brain handling the promotion, which means generic as hell ads that don’t play to the show’s strengths (Its A list cast) but instead its weaknesses (wack ass animation whose mere presence causes 50 armchair experts to immediately post “But Arc System Works found out how to simulate 2D animation with Unreal Engine!”  Hooray for them).  

If you weren’t going to use the cast, then they should have just hired normal VA’s.

[Jman]

More evidence and alleged accounts have emerged corroborating the Clownfish TV source.  It alleges mismanagement, a hostile work environment, and fund appropriation which only ended when WarnerMedia came home and reviewed the books.

[The1gairon]

6 hours ago, Daos said:

Paying for top tier talent for a show like this doesn't make any sense to me. You can hire pros from the regular anime industry that probably work for 1/10th the cost and are actually better voice actors.

 

Didn't Toonami get damn Guillermo Del Toro to hold an interview with them that they edited and aired on cable TV?!?

Edited September 17, 2019 by elfie

[Blatch]

Unironically... damn, that shit sucks. Especially with the revelation that Gray is a prima donna.

I figured gen:LOCK was a case where RT put a lot of resources into it and really thought it'd be a big hit, but then it didn't, so they fired people over it and cut ties with the creator. Such is the usual life of corporate excess. And I'm someone who likes the show, so hearing it was bungled badly by all involved is regrettable, even if the working conditions were probably far better than a typical anime. Maybe it's for the best that this one stays one and done. 😔

[OwlChemist81]

Well, looks like the only way there will ever be a Season 2 is if Rooster Teeth and Toonami have been stealthily keeping its existence under wraps and the bulk of the work was done during the first 6-7 months of 2019 before the explosive diarrhea (as opposed to just plain ol' solid shit) hit the fan, needing only some post-production editing.

But we better hope it has a conclusive ending if so, because there will NOT be a Season 3, unless an absolute miracle happens.

Edited September 18, 2019 by OwlChemist81

[The1gairon]

.... great.

Now I wanna skip the finale.

[The1gairon]

Gen:LOCK on RT and Toonami - Behind-the-scenes oppression, shitty creator who resigned while it's airing on TV, RT layoffs, nill chance of a Season 2.

Twelve Forever on Netflix - creator outed as a pedophile and fired deep in production before it's finished, barely any Netflix marketing, studio closes down.

Cannon Busters on Netflix - unfulfilled tier rewards from Kickstarter making donators wait 3 years and counting for rewards, creator goes into internet hiding, shuts down his Twitter and Facebook, privates his Instagram.

Tuca and Bertie on Netflix - canceled after one season in favor of another season of Big Mouth.

 

I'm gonna need to lie down.

Edited September 19, 2019 by elfie

[PokeNirvash]

See? Shit like this is why I stick to anime.

[The1gairon]

1 hour ago, PokeNirvash said:

See? Shit like this is why I stick to anime.

Cannonbusters is an anime.

[Jman]

4 minutes ago, elfie said:

Cannonbusters is an anime.

Technically no.  American creator and writing staff, without an original thought in its soulless, money stealing run.

[The1gairon]

11 minutes ago, Jman said:

Technically no.  American creator and writing staff, without an original thought in its soulless, money stealing run.

Technically yes. It was animated by two Japanese anime studios, and LeSean Thomas has worked with a ton of other studios in Korea and Japan in past shows too. Also it has a Japanese version with seiyu replacements.

[PokeNirvash]

American creators, Japanese studios, it still ain't my problem.

[Daos]

3 hours ago, elfie said:

Technically yes. It was animated by two Japanese anime studios, and LeSean Thomas has worked with a ton of other studios in Korea and Japan in past shows too. Also it has a Japanese version with seiyu replacements.

ULTRATECHNICALLY 

Everything animated is anime to people in Japan.

In the West... anime refers to a Japanese STYLE of animation. Meaning if something looks like anime to you, then it's anime, regardless of where it was made.

[korosu]

https://anidb.net/anime/13348

[The1gairon]

17 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

American creators, Japanese studios, it still ain't my problem.

By that logic, no series is your problem.

[The1gairon]

14 hours ago, Daos said:

ULTRATECHNICALLY 

Everything animated is anime to people in Japan.

In the West... anime refers to a Japanese STYLE of animation. Meaning if something looks like anime to you, then it's anime, regardless of where it was made.

INFINITECHNICALLY

All productions of anything is an international collaboration, and technology has gotten so advanced that anyone in any country can feasibly create any style of animation. So that automatically makes terms defined by a specific nationality/ethnicity/country useless. "Anime" as a term should be outlawed.

Edited September 20, 2019 by elfie

[Jman]

The fact remains regardless of what you call it, gen:Lock’s creator was an incompetent tyrant, Cannon Busters’ was a thief, Twelve Forever’s creator was a pedophile, so if you want to watch a cartoon on Netflix, watch Kengan Ashura.

[PokeNirvash]

Kengan Ashura's pretty great. Ain't no Dumbbells in terms of adaptational quality, but still, pretty great.

[Daos]

Hey look they made a video game just for Poke

 

[Jman]

2 hours ago, Daos said:

Hey look they made a video game just for Poke

 

Say what you want I heard that was pretty fun.