FLCL Alternative, Episode 6

[CountFrylock]

this could have been good if it wasn't a FLCLSeason   they couldn't really develop much in 6 episodes

[mochi]

apparently while Haruko was warping through space during the ending Naota got a cameo

[The1gairon]

1 minute ago, mochi said:

apparently while Haruko was warping through space during the ending Naota got a cameo

I blinked! I gotta see it again.

[CAC]

yeah, that was easily noticed I thought...

[The1gairon]

2 hours ago, CAC said:

yeah, that was easily noticed I thought...

It's not like I was live-commenting somewhere online while the episode played or anything, thereby struggling to direct my focus on two things at once.

[Blatch]

21 hours ago, CountFrylock said:

this could have been good if it wasn't a FLCLSeason   they couldn't really develop much in 6 episodes

You know, this is a genuinely good point, and it's one I haven't seen expressed anywhere else. If they had combined the best ideas from Progressive and Alternative into one plot, and then expanded it out to a full cour, this sequel experiment might have been better.

Here's the ANN review for the finale, and it does get a B. I agree with the reviewer's points, particularly about the finale deciding to go all out with an Akira cameo, of all things. I would take that even further: the fact that the finale effectively indulged on a bunch of anime-esque cliches like Kana achieving a super form, a hot-blooded rousing speech immediately after that, and then launching the characters into space is rather disappointing. The show ended on a shallow western parody of anime, which is very unfitting for a Japanese-made production.

My expression was that Kana ended up creating a new world, or even an alternate universe, where she got to live a happier life, and maybe Haruko and/or Medical Mechanica don't exist so things can be normal for everyone. This was probably on Mars, as going into space wouldn't have a good reason otherwise. Haruko's situation is also interesting to think about. Maybe she was witnessing the events of the first FLCL as something she'll be a part of in another timeline?

[rpgamer]

My major disappointment is that Haruko felt a bit superfluous to the whole ordeal. She shows up each episode to do her Haruko thing, but didn't really contribute much to the story. Kinda the same with Medical Mechanica.

Taken as a slice of life story with FLCL elements, I suppose this wasn't so bad. I enjoyed the characters. Good balance of weird, I guess. Can't really complain. Didn't expect anyone to really capture the original magic after so long. More than that, such an attempt always seems doomed to me. The very act of attempting leaves a sense of being forced, which kinda cheapens the whole thing.

But I still enjoyed the ride.

[The1gairon]

48 minutes ago, Blatch said:

The show ended on a shallow western parody of anime, which is very unfitting for a Japanese-made production.

Which is odd because they said the stories were written by the JAPANESE people, with basic requirements from Williams Street like the demand of having Haruko in both, as well as The PILLOWS doing the OST.

And if Kana indeed created a new dimension/world where she would be happier, wouldn't she bring Pets back??

Edited October 15, 2018 by elfie

[Blatch]

40 minutes ago, rpgamer said:

Can't really complain. Didn't expect anyone to really capture the original magic after so long. More than that, such an attempt always seems doomed to me. The very act of attempting leaves a sense of being forced, which kinda cheapens the whole thing.

But I still enjoyed the ride.

The unique set of circumstances the first series was made under might never be matched. You had a group of world-class animators emotionally drained by working on End of Evangelion who just so happened to have a lavish OVA-sized budget to test some new animation equipment with. If you force someone to come up with something even half as creative, you're not going to win. Although, maybe something involving the staff of the final Rebuild movie could've been more fruitful, at least if Studio Khara were to work out a truce with Production I.G. to do it.

23 minutes ago, elfie said:

Which is odd because they said the stories were written by the JAPANESE people, with basic requirements from Williams Street like the demand of having Haruko in both, as well as The PILLOWS doing the OST.

They could've demanded something to appeal to American audiences, but I doubt it.

[The1gairon]

Now that both FLCL sequels (prequels?) aired in completion and I believe both movies ran in Japan, I wonder how DeMarco and Production IG feel about its outcome.  Are they satisfied?

[ben0119]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:13 PM, elfie said:

It's not like I was live-commenting somewhere online while the episode played or anything, thereby struggling to direct my focus on two things at once.

This is why you should only comment during commercials except for shitshows like Shit-poo-pen.  I made the mistake of live commenting during show content once I was able to have my PC near my TV, and misinterpreted a scene in Casshern Sins, due to divided attention and influence of another poster, into thinking that old guy was secretly smiling and therefore possibly evil.  Lesson learned!  Never again!

Edited October 20, 2018 by ben0119

[Daos]

2 minutes ago, elfie said:

Now that both FLCL sequels (prequels?) aired in completion and I believe both movies ran in Japan, I wonder how DeMarco and Production IG feel about its outcome.  Are they satisfied?

There's no way they are. They were hyping this a a year ahead of time and actually spent money advertising this. The ratings weren't good and the reception seems to be mixed to negative. FLCL was basically a cult classic and you can't make sequels to a cult classic.

All in all, a huge waste of time, money and resources.

 

[ben0119]

Alternative was basically a Slice of Life Seinfeldian Show About Nothing that remembered at the last minute that it needed to have a plot and that it forgot to develop one of its main characters.  It was pretty... ehh.  At least Progressive was good, though not an equal to the original of course.

[ben0119]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:49 PM, CountFrylock said:

this could have been good if it wasn't a FLCLSeason   they couldn't really develop much in 6 episodes

It had to be 6 episodes because the other show was.  Demarco's "logic."

[The1gairon]

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/this-week-in-anime/2018-10-18/.138310

While it doesn't say how they think it did, this article sheds some light on the general reaction.

[Daos]

5 hours ago, elfie said:

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/this-week-in-anime/2018-10-18/.138310

While it doesn't say how they think it did, this article sheds some light on the general reaction.

We're terribly sorry but an unexpected error occured while accessing this page.

Thank you for your understanding.

Can you give us a summary? =P

[The1gairon]

11 minutes ago, Daos said:

We're terribly sorry but an unexpected error occured while accessing this page.

Thank you for your understanding.

Can you give us a summary? =P

That happened to me too. Go to that error page, look at the thumbnails on the right, and click the one about FLCL Alternative. It's a new article so it should be around the top of the page.

[Daos]

36 minutes ago, elfie said:

That happened to me too. Go to that error page, look at the thumbnails on the right, and click the one about FLCL Alternative. It's a new article so it should be around the top of the page.

Yup doesn't work. That site is ass.....how hard is it to keep a site up in 2018? =P

K so it worked finally, it's just random guys at that site talking about the anime? 

I can give you a better idea how FLCL went over with 10 seconds on the old MAL....

Progressive Ranked #4525 Popularity #1200

Alternative   Ranked #3721 Popularity #1719

The answer? It went over horribly. People generally did not like either one. 

Just for a reference, the critical reception was worse than Tenchi Muyo GXP.

 

 

Edited October 20, 2018 by Daos

[PokeNirvash]

36 minutes ago, Daos said:

Progressive Ranked #4525 Popularity #1200

Alternative   Ranked #3721 Popularity #1719

The answer? It went over horribly. People generally did not like either one.

Better gauge of opinion: the top reviews.

Alternative has two 8/10 reviews and two 6/10s. Progressive has one 8/10 and three 3/10s.

Both may have performed poorly, but it's pretty damn clear that more people liked Alternative than they did Progressive. And I don't blame them.

[The1gairon]

1 hour ago, Daos said:

Yup doesn't work. That site is ass.....how hard is it to keep a site up in 2018? =P

K so it worked finally, it's just random guys at that site talking about the anime? 

I can give you a better idea how FLCL went over with 10 seconds on the old MAL....

Progressive Ranked #4525 Popularity #1200

Alternative   Ranked #3721 Popularity #1719

The answer? It went over horribly. People generally did not like either one. 

Just for a reference, the critical reception was worse than Tenchi Muyo GXP.

 

 

Odd.  It works for me.

That's the format these guys use for articles. Not sure if its transcribed verbatim.

[The1gairon]

1 hour ago, PokeNirvash said:

Better gauge of opinion: the top reviews.

Alternative has two 8/10 reviews and two 6/10s. Progressive has one 8/10 and three 3/10s.

Both may have performed poorly, but it's pretty damn clear that more people liked Alternative than they did Progressive. And I don't blame them.

Odd. I liked Progressive better.

[Blatch]

No matter which season you prefer, your opinion is perfectly okay to have.

I think it's obvious that Alternative is liked better despite being less popular on MAL. By the time it premiered, the hype for new FLCL was straight gone due to Progressive being a disappointment. But would both seasons be better received if Alternative had aired first? I'm actually not sure. On one hand, it's a more character-driven series, oozes with personality and style, and has a much better climax. On the other, the lack of references to the FLCL mythos and reliance on SoL antics would've bored many, and it also has inferior animation. And then having Progressive be the second series would've lead to a weaker ending to the franchise as a whole, and I feel just as many would be pissed off and disinterested in that case.

All in all, we got one new series that was somewhat decent and another that was genuinely good. As someone who had no expectations going into either of them, I'm satisfied. 

[The1gairon]

Woah. No one made a FLCL Alternative rerun thread! No wonder it feels like I was forgetting something on this board.

[ben0119]

Progressive is obviously the superior show for being more creative with story, characters, and art and animation.  It felt like an art piece.  Not on par with original FLCL, but you can tell they really poured their heart into it.

Alternative has the modern day generic anime art style and animation style like you'd see in K-On!, and numerous other run of the mill slice of life and cute girl animes.  It doesn't change from episode to episode either, like Progressive did, where every episode felt unique, almost like short films unto themselve.  Though this show clearly wasn't made to pander to male otakus that watch stuff like K-On!.  It's a Slice of Life Seinfeldian Show About Nothing that forgot until the last minute that it needed to have a plot and to develop one of its main characters.  Haruko is largely pointless with no clear motivation and no explanation for her attitude change from selfish and obsessed with Atomsk to being a seemingly older, laid back, chill, friendly mentor to youth and protector of Earth.  My theory is influence of Jinyu in the interem from Progressive to Alternative, if that is the chronological order.  The ending with Kana making Mars Earth's second moon is poorly communicated due to how crappy the planets are drawn, not really looking like themselves.  Her love confession to Pets is ambiguous between friend love or lesbian love though I personally think it is the former since she was shown to be straight and attracted to the basketball coach kid earlier.  Unless she's bi.  I think it needed more episodes too.

Edited October 21, 2018 by ben0119

[ben0119]

12 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

Better gauge of opinion: the top reviews.

Alternative has two 8/10 reviews and two 6/10s. Progressive has one 8/10 and three 3/10s.

Both may have performed poorly, but it's pretty damn clear that more people liked Alternative than they did Progressive. And I don't blame them.

...how?

[The1gairon]

8 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Progressive is obviously the superior show for being more creative with story, characters, and art and animation.  It felt like an art piece.  Not on par with original FLCL, but you can tell they really poured their heart into it.

Alternative has the modern day generic anime art style and animation style like you'd see in K-On!, and numerous other run of the mill slice of life and cute girl animes.  It doesn't change from episode to episode either, like Progressive did, where every episode felt unique, almost like short films unto themselve.  Though this show clearly wasn't made to pander to male otakus that watch stuff like K-On!.  It's a Slice of Life Seinfeldian Show About Nothing that forgot until the last minute that it needed to have a plot and to develop one of its main characters.  Haruko is largely pointless with no clear motivation and no explanation for her attitude change from selfish and obsessed with Atomsk to being a seemingly older, laid back, chill, friendly mentor to youth and protector of Earth.  My theory is influence of Jinyu in the interem from Progressive to Alternative, if that is the chronological order.  The ending with Kana making Mars Earth's second moon is poorly communicated due to how crappy the planets are drawn, not really looking like themselves.  Her love confession to Pets is ambiguous between friend love or lesbian love though I personally think it is the former since she was shown to be straight and attracted to the basketball coach kid earlier.  Unless she's bi.  I think it needed more episodes too.

Woah I agree!

Progressive is better in a lot of ways. If the animation in Alternative had been used for absolutely any other anime that wasn't tied to a much beloved American-rerun show people have rewatched and analyzed for the past 17 years, I wouldn't pay any mind to it. But it IS SUPPOSED to be compared to FLCL, and we will gladly express its faults in relation to it!

My theory as to why Mars doesn't look like Mars is because it's already colonized. But then even in this bizarre show, the idea that they could change its landscape THAT QUICKLY is farfetched.

[PokeNirvash]

12 hours ago, ben0119 said:

...how?

By having a mindset more generous than Daos's "it's below a 7.00 average so it's automatically shit" thought process. I bet his opinion on Ninja Nonsense (assuming he has one) would reverse were its average score to increase by 0.01 overnight.

[Daos]

1 hour ago, PokeNirvash said:

By having a mindset more generous than Daos's "it's below a 7.00 average so it's automatically shit" thought process. I bet his opinion on Ninja Nonsense (assuming he has one) would reverse were its average score to increase by 0.01 overnight.

Actually I like tons of anime that are critically reviled.

I just don't assume that because I liked it that it had widespread critical appeal and popularity.

Killing Bites.... would totally watch S2. I just don't think that me liking something makes it "good." More of a ... guilty pleasure.

Ranked #4215 Popularity #1141

[PokeNirvash]

That is a fair point that I agree with. Hell, Chuukan Kanriroku Tonegawa is ranked #5772 with #2938 popularity, and it's my favorite show of both last season and this one. Legitimately good despite the high barrier to entry.

[ben0119]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:12 PM, PokeNirvash said:

By having a mindset more generous than Daos's "it's below a 7.00 average so it's automatically shit" thought process. I bet his opinion on Ninja Nonsense (assuming he has one) would reverse were its average score to increase by 0.01 overnight.

I don't care what anyone else thinks.  It doesn't affect how I feel about a show.  I like what I like and dislike what I dislike.  You should have recognized that by now with how you've seen me voice my thoughts on anime, manga, and entertainment in general over the years.  That goes for everything.  And people are free to their opinions, I just find it baffling that people would prefer Alternative, though I can see its appeal and do like it myself, just not nearly as much as Progressive.

[ben0119]

On 10/21/2018 at 10:58 AM, elfie said:

Woah I agree!

Progressive is better in a lot of ways. If the animation in Alternative had been used for absolutely any other anime that wasn't tied to a much beloved American-rerun show people have rewatched and analyzed for the past 17 years, I wouldn't pay any mind to it. But it IS SUPPOSED to be compared to FLCL, and we will gladly express its faults in relation to it!

My theory as to why Mars doesn't look like Mars is because it's already colonized. But then even in this bizarre show, the idea that they could change its landscape THAT QUICKLY is farfetched.

Exactly.  Very generic and formulaic looking.  Yep.  It can't be an FLCL series and not be held to that high standard.

It's already been terraformed, yeah.  It still could have looked more like itself, more red - the brown parts lacking in vegetation on Earth would be red on Mars, for example.  And we don't know how far in the future it is.  I'd argue even further than Progressive, where Amarao's son is an adult with a daughter, and which already had a giant space station made by humans for immigration and "lost and found."  So it's not really far-fetched.  Like I said though, poorly communicated visually, where anime is a visual medium, that's kind of important to get right.

[ben0119]

On 10/21/2018 at 4:46 PM, Daos said:

Actually I like tons of anime that are critically reviled.

I just don't assume that because I liked it that it had widespread critical appeal and popularity.

Killing Bites.... would totally watch S2. I just don't think that me liking something makes it "good." More of a ... guilty pleasure.

Ranked #4215 Popularity #1141

Same here, though I won't always call something that's reviled a guilty pleasure, though that's certainly the case in some cases.  I can see a show I like being bad or a guilty pleasure, or good, or a show I dislike being a good, and just something that isn't for me, and also bad and possibly a guilty pleasure or something I watch to riff on.  I mean, does anyone seriously think Naruto is high caliber writing and story telling?  I liked it though, at least Part 1.  But going back, even the good parts weren't as good as I remember, and the canon story becomes only worse as it progresses.  I don't like Mad Men, but I can see its quality and appeal.  I loved Water World and don't agree it is bad.  I loved Star Trek Generations and was baffled upon finding out it was a 50/50 polarizing film online years later.  I do recall the audience groaning when they said in the movie that this wouldn't be the last ship called Enterprise.

[The1gairon]

5 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Exactly.  Very generic and formulaic looking.  Yep.  It can't be an FLCL series and not be held to that high standard.

It's already been terraformed, yeah.  It still could have looked more like itself, more red - the brown parts lacking in vegetation on Earth would be red on Mars, for example.  And we don't know how far in the future it is.  I'd argue even further than Progressive, where Amarao's son is an adult with a daughter, and which already had a giant space station made by humans for immigration and "lost and found."  So it's not really far-fetched.  Like I said though, poorly communicated visually, where anime is a visual medium, that's kind of important to get right.

Which only makes less sense because word of god said Alternative is supposed to be a PREQUEL, not a sequel! *_*

[ben0119]

On 10/25/2018 at 10:30 AM, elfie said:

Which only makes less sense because word of god said Alternative is supposed to be a PREQUEL, not a sequel! *_*

Eh, are you sure about that?  I can find no evidence for this claim, and it certainly doesn't seem to be the case from what we see in the show.  Wait...

According to Toonami's creative director Jason DeMarco, Alternative was designed to be a prequel to the FLCL series. This is shown with little details such as Haruko not having her signature yellow Vespa or the metal bracelet on her wrist that tracks Atomsk's power. The Gainax Ending is actually a very loose set up for what was originally going to be the first series, complete with Haruko getting the Vespa and seeing a power akin to Atomsk's. It was meant to tie into an unused story concept in the original that the town of Mabase would've actually been on Mars the entire time. However, there's nothing within the series itself that confirms when it takes place in the timeline.

I really don't see how it was meant to be a prequel.  I mean, Mars is orbiting the Earth, now!  This only muddies the waters even more!