Toonami Ratings Thread 2.0

[PokeNirvash]

Considering how down south the previous ratings thread has become, on top of complaints that the name is outdated, here's a new thread.

No flaming, no trolling, no beating dead horses, no speaking in absolutes, no parroting viewpoints, no treating overall numbers as the only thing that matters, no saying the ratings are shit for something just because you personally dislike it, and most of all, no blatant lies about the TV content rating system. Here's lookin' at you, Zeni.

[now play nice]

[OwlChemist81]

RECAP:

http://programminginsider.com/saturday-final-ratings-over-15-million-watch-justify-win-the-triple-crown-at-the-belmont-stakes-on-nbc/

	PROGRAM	Viewers (000)	A1849 rating	A1849 (000)
10:30	Dragon Ball Super	802	0.38	496
11:00	Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters	660	0.28	365
11:30	My Hero Academia (r)	520	0.22	284
12:00a	FLCL: Progressive	441	0.19	239
12:30a	Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders	391	0.17	217
1:00a	Hunter X Hunter (r)	377	0.16	205
1:30a	Black Clover (r)	333	0.15	197
2:00a	Naruto: Shippuden (r)	337	0.17	217
2:30a	Space Dandy (r)	260	0.13	164
3:00a	Cowboy Bebop (r)	241	0.12	158
3:30a	Lupin the 3rd: Part 4 (r)	239	0.11	144

We're pretty much at rock bottom now so it can only go up from here, right?? RIGHT!?! Then again, I've been saying the same thing periodically for the past 1.5 years...

Edited June 13, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[The1gairon]

In the interest of not complaining, I will just state that this place appears to go to pot the moment news arrives about some controversial CN schedule change.  I notice it's a pattern that has happened here before with similar news reports, so it would be beneficial to watch our emotions in those cases.

[Blatch]

Uh... okay.

This wasn't required, although I appreciate the attempt to keep some decorum. This also solves my other problem of numbering the threads. 

[CaptainStarwind]

Hey, I'll roll with it.  This is actually the second semi-violent Toonami Ratings thread closing I've been involved in, the first being Toonami Ratings 1.0 over on Toonzone, after some guy attempted to argue that Family Guy deserved a spot on Toonami, using Peter and the Giant Chicken as justification.

As long as none of yall do that, I'll be cool here.

[The1gairon]

21 minutes ago, CaptainStarwind said:

Hey, I'll roll with it.  This is actually the second semi-violent Toonami Ratings thread closing I've been involved in, the first being Toonami Ratings 1.0 over on Toonzone, after some guy attempted to argue that Family Guy deserved a spot on Toonami, using Peter and the Giant Chicken as justification.\\

THAT'S grasping at straws!

[OwlChemist81]

I'll admit that the giant chicken sequences do have some decent choreography, but it's not the same thing as a Toonami action sequence!

[Ginguy]

  I'm not sure why we have a new thread, but we should at least have the ratings chart. As for last week, it wasn't exactly thrilling, but in the key demo FLCL and Jojo are both pulling a green share (above avg) with comparatively low numbers in P2+. It looks like there were just not many people that [as] targets who were watching TV at all if those comparatively low numbers for FLCL and JJBA were still good enough to rank an above avg share of the audience. That above avg share is really what advertisers are looking at, it shows that money spent on Toonami is going to reach their target demo. That is ultimately a good thing, even if they aren't pulling in crazy #LivePD nation numbers.

 

[Ginguy]

30 minutes ago, CaptainStarwind said:

Hey, I'll roll with it.  This is actually the second semi-violent Toonami Ratings thread closing I've been involved in, the first being Toonami Ratings 1.0 over on Toonzone, after some guy attempted to argue that Family Guy deserved a spot on Toonami, using Peter and the Giant Chicken as justification.

As long as none of yall do that, I'll be cool here.

That's a leap worthy of admittance into U.A.....

[StarPanda]

New ratings thread who this 

[PokeNirvash]

A regular visitor who felt that it was time for a change after a year and a half of the same complaints over and over and over again.

[Blatch]

25 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said:

after a year and a half of the same complaints over and over and over again.

The thing is, the ratings chat has become this way by design, now that we know the ratings are largely pointless in the grand scheme of things. But then you have people twisting the numbers around to promote their own agendas, as well as others who don't know any better using it to spread fear and paranoia. I don't think a new thread is going to fix these issues at all.

[Daos]

31 minutes ago, Blatch said:

The thing is, the ratings chat has become this way by design, now that we know the ratings are largely pointless in the grand scheme of things. But then you have people twisting the numbers around to promote their own agendas, as well as others who don't know any better using it to spread fear and paranoia. I don't think a new thread is going to fix these issues at all.

OMG TOONAMI IS GETTING CANCELED DUE TO BAD RATINGS!!!!!1111ONEONEONE

[OwlChemist81]

2 hours ago, Blatch said:

The thing is, the ratings chat has become this way by design, now that we know the ratings are largely pointless in the grand scheme of things. But then you have people twisting the numbers around to promote their own agendas, as well as others who don't know any better using it to spread fear and paranoia. I don't think a new thread is going to fix these issues at all.

Well, here's the thing. We KNOW Toonami is not getting cancelled due to bad ratings anytime soon. Dragon Ball Super alone is proof of that. BUT, WILL IT do well enough to maintain its current 11-show lineup? I think that's a decent question to ask weekly, or at least whenever a show on the back end is nearing its conclusion.

[Sketch]

1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

Well, here's the thing. We KNOW Toonami is not getting cancelled due to bad ratings anytime soon. Dragon Ball Super alone is proof of that. BUT, WILL IT do well enough to maintain its current 11-show lineup? I think that's a decent question to ask weekly, or at least whenever a show on the back end is nearing its conclusion.

I would have to imagine the front end will shrink before the back end. It's just easier to keep anime reruns on at 3AM than return that time to comedy.

At this point it would probably be a good idea to shift to 11pm, it's not like they're even making use of the earlier time to premiere FLCL Progressive before midnight. If they do that and drop DBZ, it's probably going to help at least a bit. 10:30 is an odd time to start anyway.

That said there's still part of me that feels like cable decline remains the biggest factor here and the problem isn't the shows themselves. FLCL Progressive holds MHA pretty darn well so far.

There's always been a sizable gap after DBZ Kai, the only thing that really changed is Kai used to hold Super well and even beat it but now it's holding it no better than most shows held Kai. While I can't say I honestly believe any other show would hold Super better short of maybe One-Punch Man season 2 (if that) I do think by eliminating Kai they would only have one large gap again and things would "settle" a half hour earlier and retention would improve because of that. It seems kind of ridiculous that DBZ Kai and One-Punch Man could do so well at midnight and other shows are nowhere near that level at midnight or even 11:30pm. The argument that it's all because of the Dragon Ball hour would make more sense if Toonami started at midnight or even 11:30pm but it starts at 10:30pm and the first non-DB show is at 11:30pm. That's not 1am, it's not that late on a Saturday. People used to stay up much later for their non-DB fix but that no longer seems to be the case. If the problem is the shows I think the main issue there is much of the line-up aren't shows you can simply jump into anymore. JoJo has been on off and on since late 2016, HxH has been on since mid 2016, DBZ has been on since late 2014 and Shippuden has been on since the start of 2014. On top of that, the latest Gundam series were a direct sequel to IBO season 1 which aired in 2016 and a series that is fully entrenched in the UC timeline. To watch Toonami now practically requires you to have at least been watching regularly since 2016. If you fell off any of those shows then you have to catch up through other means and once you do that, why even go back to Toonami unless you really love the group watch aspect and the community? They were wise to push Naruto and One Piece to the 2am hour when they did. It allowed newer or fresher shows their time to shine but when your newest attractions are buried behind glorified reruns people won't notice them even if they are promoted. DBS should be a tool used to draw viewers to other shows but it hasn't really been used for that purpose and it's looking like it won't be unless they separate it from DBZ Kai by July.

[Misaka]

New meat!

Now flcl really shit the bed instead of JoJo for once

[Daos]

Remember, Cartoon Networks ratings suck fat hairy balls. As long as that continues Toonami probably won't even lose hours.

[Jman]

Let’s avoid some hyperbole (just some) and give these ratings the long term breakdown.

Samurai Jack was proof that a genuine world premiere will still work...if it’s something people are interested in.  Because Jack’s story wasn’t told.  Even the comics ended on a “maybe so”.  There was interest, and for a few weeks, DeMarco got to relieve the good old days.  Weekly airings, no spoilers, you watch when we tell you, etc.  

That is very rare.  The only other Toonami show that could possibly warrant such a thing was Reboot, and if you followed the televised  dumpster fire that was Reboot: The Guardian Code, you know that went...poorly.  So poorly Reboot’s original writers disowned it.  But I digress.

As I’ve repeated to my usual level of “Oh God Jman we get it already!” levels, no one was really clamoring for an FLCL sequel besides DeMarco and friends, and the audience reaction is pretty much what we’ve seen before.  Apathy.  Unlike Jack, unlike Reboot, FLCL left no plots open, had no sequel hooks, it was one and DONE.  My rather derisive comments about it being “FLCL fanfiction” stem from it lacking a lot of the original talent, and being pushed by someone who was a fan, rather than a creator with more story to tell.  That and FLCL, unlike Jack, was a cult hit at best, hardly mainstream.

As for MHA - To about 90% of viewers, Toonami begins and ends at DB, not helped by the fact that MHA has been available elsewhere and is still available elsewhere dubbed.  So even if people saw the first episode of MHA and wanted to watch more (still haven’t) they can go to Hulu or Crunchyroll/FuniNow/VRV, and catch up on demand.  This is simply not conducive to getting people to stay up for your linear block.

Personally I think we all saw the salad days of Dragonball coupled with One Punch Man and assumed that was supposed to be the norm, not the exception.  To which I give it the old casual guy test.  People bring up OPM and Krillin when talking about bald athletes.  I’ve mentioned how DBZ is popular in sports and martial arts culture (it bears repeating they got the freaking Green Bay Packers and WWE’s The New Day to promote FighterZ, which simply DOES NOT happen with 99% of anime games), and one of my training partners went to a costume party as Saitama.  Is MHA doing that?  Is FLCL doing that?  Probably not.

To be fair, FLCL isn’t showing in Mexican sports bars the way the last arc of DB Super was.  Toonami is feeling the same squeeze everyone else is - If we can watch it somewhere else on our time, we will.  Unfortunately, FLCL does not really make people clamor for a conclusion the way Jack did.  The conclusion we got was just fine, thank you.  No more is necessary or wanted.

[OwlChemist81]

9 hours ago, Sketch said:

I would have to imagine the front end will shrink before the back end. It's just easier to keep anime reruns on at 3AM than return that time to comedy.

At this point it would probably be a good idea to shift to 11pm, it's not like they're even making use of the earlier time to premiere FLCL Progressive before midnight. If they do that and drop DBZ, it's probably going to help at least a bit. 10:30 is an odd time to start anyway.

We've speculated that the reason that Toonami currently begins at 10:30 PM is that there is some kind of provision in the contract for Dragon Ball Super that it must premiere in prime time. But that's really no reason that both DB shows have to run on Toonami back-to-back...or is it?? In fact, that and a deal for MHA that mandates 11:30 might be why FLCL Progressive is stuck at midnight--but I really hope not. It would be nice to see the last 2 episodes of Progressive air in the 11 PM hour somehow after Kai ends. That could happen at 11 PM on 6/30 and 7/7 barring marathons or other normal schedule pre-emptions (like some are speculating the Summer Camp Island event will just wipe out Adult Swim completely for 2 days).

Edited June 14, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[OwlChemist81]

9 hours ago, Jman said:

As for MHA - To about 90% of viewers, Toonami begins and ends at DB, not helped by the fact that MHA has been available elsewhere and is still available elsewhere dubbed.  So even if people saw the first episode of MHA and wanted to watch more (still haven’t) they can go to Hulu or Crunchyroll/FuniNow/VRV, and catch up on demand.  This is simply not conducive to getting people to stay up for your linear block.

To be fair, FLCL isn’t showing in Mexican sports bars the way the last arc of DB Super was.  Toonami is feeling the same squeeze everyone else is - If we can watch it somewhere else on our time, we will.  Unfortunately, FLCL does not really make people clamor for a conclusion the way Jack did.  The conclusion we got was just fine, thank you.  No more is necessary or wanted.

Ok, that's been proven to be wrong. YES, the DBs do head and shoulders above everything else on Toonami these days, but let's not pretend that 90% of viewers don't watch the rest of the block. If that were the case, we would see an average of a million watching DBS and DBZK, while only 100K watch My Hero Academia, and that's just not the case. About 75% of the viewers of DBZK also watch MHA, so you should be arguing that to a quarter of the viewers (25%), Toonami begins and ends with Dragon Ball. That's mostly true.

I feel that while FLCL was a great work in its own right, I DID want to see more of the story between Raharu and her quest for Atomsk. I feel while FLCL Progressive may not have been "necessary", it's not that I didn't want it either. But maybe I have a bit of confirmation bias since it was announced on my 35th birthday!

Edited June 14, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[Blatch]

9 hours ago, Sketch said:

If the problem is the shows I think the main issue there is much of the line-up aren't shows you can simply jump into anymore. JoJo has been on off and on since late 2016, HxH has been on since mid 2016, DBZ has been on since late 2014 and Shippuden has been on since the start of 2014. On top of that, the latest Gundam series were a direct sequel to IBO season 1 which aired in 2016 and a series that is fully entrenched in the UC timeline. To watch Toonami now practically requires you to have at least been watching regularly since 2016. If you fell off any of those shows then you have to catch up through other means and once you do that, why even go back to Toonami unless you really love the group watch aspect and the community? They were wise to push Naruto and One Piece to the 2am hour when they did. It allowed newer or fresher shows their time to shine but when your newest attractions are buried behind glorified reruns people won't notice them even if they are promoted. DBS should be a tool used to draw viewers to other shows but it hasn't really been used for that purpose and it's looking like it won't be unless they separate it from DBZ Kai by July.

This speaks a lot to my dissatisfaction with the block, although it has gotten better in recent months with the addition of My Hero Academia and new FLCL finally airing. Still, those are a long-running show and a glorified sequel, respectively. The only stand-alone premieres they've aired since the start of 2017 are Tokyo Ghoul and Black Clover, and the latter is a long-running show anyway. At least Part 4 of Lupin is only a sequel in name, and you can follow it regardless of your knowledge of the franchise; I speak from experience here.

For as much as I wanted to harp on those people fearmongering (especially Colt, from Twitter) that Toonami would become nothing but long-running shonen by this point, I have to admit that they were completely right in the end. Hopefully, DBZ Kai will either leave or not rerun before 2:00A when its premiere run ends, and that should help out the ratings a bit. JoJo's still has two months to go, but when Diamond is Unbreakable starts airing (because you know it will), it has a much different plot and doesn't lean on the previous three parts too much, so maybe it'll attract new viewers. And in general, Toonami could still use a completely new, non-shonen show to draw some eyeballs, but I'm hopeful the crew will get one in the second half of the year.

[say yes to narehates]

[Misaka]

6 hours ago, Jman said:

Let’s avoid some hyperbole (just some) and give these ratings the long term breakdown.

Samurai Jack was proof that a genuine world premiere will still work...if it’s something people are interested in.  Because Jack’s story wasn’t told.  Even the comics ended on a “maybe so”.  There was interest, and for a few weeks, DeMarco got to relieve the good old days.  Weekly airings, no spoilers, you watch when we tell you, etc.  

That is very rare.  The only other Toonami show that could possibly warrant such a thing was Reboot, and if you followed the televised  dumpster fire that was Reboot: The Guardian Code, you know that went...poorly.  So poorly Reboot’s original writers disowned it.  But I digress.

As I’ve repeated to my usual level of “Oh God Jman we get it already!” levels, no one was really clamoring for an FLCL sequel besides DeMarco and friends, and the audience reaction is pretty much what we’ve seen before.  Apathy.  Unlike Jack, unlike Reboot, FLCL left no plots open, had no sequel hooks, it was one and DONE.  My rather derisive comments about it being “FLCL fanfiction” stem from it lacking a lot of the original talent, and being pushed by someone who was a fan, rather than a creator with more story to tell.  That and FLCL, unlike Jack, was a cult hit at best, hardly mainstream.

As for MHA - To about 90% of viewers, Toonami begins and ends at DB, not helped by the fact that MHA has been available elsewhere and is still available elsewhere dubbed.  So even if people saw the first episode of MHA and wanted to watch more (still haven’t) they can go to Hulu or Crunchyroll/FuniNow/VRV, and catch up on demand.  This is simply not conducive to getting people to stay up for your linear block.

Personally I think we all saw the salad days of Dragonball coupled with One Punch Man and assumed that was supposed to be the norm, not the exception.  To which I give it the old casual guy test.  People bring up OPM and Krillin when talking about bald athletes.  I’ve mentioned how DBZ is popular in sports and martial arts culture (it bears repeating they got the freaking Green Bay Packers and WWE’s The New Day to promote FighterZ, which simply DOES NOT happen with 99% of anime games), and one of my training partners went to a costume party as Saitama.  Is MHA doing that?  Is FLCL doing that?  Probably not.

To be fair, FLCL isn’t showing in Mexican sports bars the way the last arc of DB Super was.  Toonami is feeling the same squeeze everyone else is - If we can watch it somewhere else on our time, we will.  Unfortunately, FLCL does not really make people clamor for a conclusion the way Jack did.  The conclusion we got was just fine, thank you.  No more is necessary or wanted.

Season 5 of jack was their smartest move since it had such a huge  fanbase flcl now this is their dumber move  stupidest belongs to black clover 

[The1gairon]

11 hours ago, Sketch said:

I would have to imagine the front end will shrink before the back end. It's just easier to keep anime reruns on at 3AM than return that time to comedy.

At this point it would probably be a good idea to shift to 11pm, it's not like they're even making use of the earlier time to premiere FLCL Progressive before midnight. If they do that and drop DBZ, it's probably going to help at least a bit. 10:30 is an odd time to start anyway.

That said there's still part of me that feels like cable decline remains the biggest factor here and the problem isn't the shows themselves. FLCL Progressive holds MHA pretty darn well so far.

There's always been a sizable gap after DBZ Kai, the only thing that really changed is Kai used to hold Super well and even beat it but now it's holding it no better than most shows held Kai. While I can't say I honestly believe any other show would hold Super better short of maybe One-Punch Man season 2 (if that) I do think by eliminating Kai they would only have one large gap again and things would "settle" a half hour earlier and retention would improve because of that. It seems kind of ridiculous that DBZ Kai and One-Punch Man could do so well at midnight and other shows are nowhere near that level at midnight or even 11:30pm. The argument that it's all because of the Dragon Ball hour would make more sense if Toonami started at midnight or even 11:30pm but it starts at 10:30pm and the first non-DB show is at 11:30pm. That's not 1am, it's not that late on a Saturday. People used to stay up much later for their non-DB fix but that no longer seems to be the case. If the problem is the shows I think the main issue there is much of the line-up aren't shows you can simply jump into anymore. JoJo has been on off and on since late 2016, HxH has been on since mid 2016, DBZ has been on since late 2014 and Shippuden has been on since the start of 2014. On top of that, the latest Gundam series were a direct sequel to IBO season 1 which aired in 2016 and a series that is fully entrenched in the UC timeline. To watch Toonami now practically requires you to have at least been watching regularly since 2016. If you fell off any of those shows then you have to catch up through other means and once you do that, why even go back to Toonami unless you really love the group watch aspect and the community? They were wise to push Naruto and One Piece to the 2am hour when they did. It allowed newer or fresher shows their time to shine but when your newest attractions are buried behind glorified reruns people won't notice them even if they are promoted. DBS should be a tool used to draw viewers to other shows but it hasn't really been used for that purpose and it's looking like it won't be unless they separate it from DBZ Kai by July.

I REALLY hope they put something else in Kai's place when it runs through its complete # of episodes soon. ANYTHING else would be a fresh break from just a single Dragonball hour that's severely inhibiting the block's potential.

[The1gairon]

6 hours ago, Jman said:

.

To be fair, FLCL isn’t showing in Mexican sports bars the way the last arc of DB Super was.  Toonami is feeling the same squeeze everyone else is - If we can watch it somewhere else on our time, we will.  Unfortunately, FLCL does not really make people clamor for a conclusion the way Jack did.  The conclusion we got was just fine, thank you.  No more is necessary or wanted.

Fair?? U r comparing the FLCL retention to the downright biggest and most popular anime in America of all time??

[PokeNirvash]

NEW RULE: No doubling up on question marks unless you're really confused about something.

[Jman]

48 minutes ago, elfie said:

Fair?? U r comparing the FLCL retention to the downright biggest and most popular anime in America of all time??

It’s not fair to expect the same results is what I’m saying.  FLCL simply is not that big a name, nor is there that big a demand  for it. Comparing it to DBZ and One Punch Man is disingenuous.  At the same time, maybe they shouldn’t spend their money on this property.  This isn’t a throwaway timeslot Mike Lazzo can air Astro Boy in because he loved it growing up and no one cares what’s on at 5am on a Tuesday.  This is a good portion of the 2018 budget.

[Ginguy]

3 hours ago, Jman said:

It’s not fair to expect the same results is what I’m saying.  FLCL simply is not that big a name, nor is there that big a demand  for it. Comparing it to DBZ and One Punch Man is disingenuous.  At the same time, maybe they shouldn’t spend their money on this property.  This isn’t a throwaway timeslot Mike Lazzo can air Astro Boy in because he loved it growing up and no one cares what’s on at 5am on a Tuesday.  This is a good portion of the 2018 budget.

You keep saying there is no demand for FLCL sequel, and I keep seeing above average P18-34 share....

So, which is it?

 

[The1gairon]

That FLCL panel at C2E2 looked extremely full to me.  Also, the crowd seemed very excited for it there.

[Sketch]

3 hours ago, elfie said:

That FLCL panel at C2E2 looked extremely full to me.  Also, the crowd seemed very excited for it there.

I think it’s fair to say that the idea of a sequel for FLCL wasn’t on a tremendous amount of fan’s minds before it was announced but there’s plenty of FLCL fans that are interested in seeing a sequel. Two years ago this probably would have broke a million after DBZ Kai. Things are considerably lower now all around. But it would not do as well as Jack. FLCL is much more niche than Jack and DBZ.

[Jman]

5 hours ago, Sketch said:

I think it’s fair to say that the idea of a sequel for FLCL wasn’t on a tremendous amount of fan’s minds before it was announced but there’s plenty of FLCL fans that are interested in seeing a sequel. Two years ago this probably would have broke a million after DBZ Kai. Things are considerably lower now all around. But it would not do as well as Jack. FLCL is much more niche than Jack and DBZ.

Essentially this.  Ok, maybe I’m being too hard on FLCL, but Jack was a perfect storm of events.  Incomplete story, final season for adults, everyone (save Mako, R.I.P.) back for one last go around, it was perfect.  

[OwlChemist81]

Wow, this is excellent by today's standards!!

That's obviously a new high for FLCL: Progressive!

[Daos]

Whoa 1.1 mil for Super? 900 k for Kai?? Good retention for Kai? What the heckkkk

[Blatch]

People apparently wanted to pay their respects to the second longest-running Toonami show. The finale should also get good numbers, if only because DirecTV viewers won't be locked out of watching it like with Bleach.

I'm curious to see where DB Super goes from here. The Universe Survival arc is considered the worst part of the show (excepting the movie recaps, of course) by dedicated fans, but it's also the most popular one. For better or worse, it made Dragon Ball a worldwide phenomenon again. Jman's comments about the final episodes being shown in Mexican bars are really all you need to hear, but for what it's worth, I heard some people talking about it in my college chemistry class. 

Of course, we still have a few episodes of comedic filler to get through once Future Trunks' story is wrapped up, with all the Dr. Slump references and Vegeta-bashing they'll unleash. On the other hand, these are apparently genuinely funny, so even I won't be sleeping on them.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Blatch

[OwlChemist81]

Last week to this week comparisons are insane:

P2+	Last Week	This Week	Change	%Chg
DBS	802,000	1,097,000	295,000	137%
DBZKFC	660,000	923,000	263,000	140%
FLCL	441,000	687,000	246,000	156%
JoJo	391,000	558,000	167,000	143%
		AVERAGE	194,200
A 18-34	Last Week	This Week	Change	%Chg
DBS	0.47	0.61	+0.14	130%
DBZKFC	0.33	0.50	+0.17	152%
FLCL	0.25	0.42	+0.17	168%
JoJo	0.21	0.38	+0.17	181%
		AVERAGE	+0.13
A 18-49	Last Week	This Week	Change	%Chg
DBS	0.38	0.52	+0.14	137%
DBZKFC	0.28	0.44	+0.16	157%
FLCL	0.19	0.32	+0.13	168%
JoJo	0.17	0.27	+0.10	159%
		AVERAGE	+0.11

Dying to see what the rest of the block's numbers looked like, especially MHA, as in "did it break 800K or not..."

[Jman]

Universal Survival is the DBZ everyone in the West wanted to see - Nonstop Fights.  It should do well.

[Daos]

Yeah it's literally the only good part of Super. It has an ungodly amount of episodes in that arc before it gets to the good stuff. There's like 20 episodes devoted to Goku building his team for the Tourney.

[OwlChemist81]

Well lookie here!!!

http://www.showbuzzdaily.com/articles/showbuzzdailys-top-150-saturday-cable-originals-network-finals-6-16-2018.html

The Adult Swim line-up performed as follows:  DRAGON BALL at 0.52/0.44 compared to last week’s 0.38/0.28, MY HERO ACADEMIA up 0.12 to 0.34/720K, FLCL up 0.13 to 0.32, JOJO’S BIZARRE ADVENTURE up a tenth to 0.27, HUNTER X HUNTER up 0.11 to 0.27/532K, BLACK CLOVER up 0.08 to 0.23/491K, NARUTO up 0.04 to 0.21/432K, SPACE DANDY up 0.03 to 0.16/368K, COWBOY BEBOP up 0.04 to 0.16/369K, and LUPIN THE 3RD up 0.06 to 0.17/362K.

6/16/18 - Total Viewers
Show	Viewers	Retention
DBS	1,097,000
DBZKFC	923,000	84.14%
MHA	720,000	78.01%
FLCL	687,000	95.42%
JoJo	558,000	81.22%
HxH	532,000	95.34%
B. Clover	491,000	92.29%
Shippuden	432,000	87.98%
Dandy	368,000	85.19%
Bebop	369,000	100.27%
Lupin	362,000	98.10%
AVERAGE	594,455	2nd of 24

FANTASTIC retention from FLCL Progressive once again. It deserved to be at 11 PM for real. Hopefully they won't screw that up with FLCL Alternative, but if I had to take a wild guess, it's probably replacing JoJo or Pop Team Epic.

Edited June 19, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[Blatch]

You know, I only watched two episodes live this week (of MHA and FLCL Progressive), so maybe I'm dragging the ratings down by staying for longer, like when Poke does it at all? 

[Ginguy]

That is a genuinely impressive share pretty much across the board.

Good week for all shows.

I'm wondering if this talk about ratings not mattering as much is due to AT&T acquiring Turner networks/Time Warner.

[Daos]

2nd best ratings of the year eh? When was the first? A Kai marathon 6 months ago?

[OwlChemist81]

Actually, March 10th!

[OwlChemist81]

The full 18-49 numbers:

http://programminginsider.com/saturday-final-ratings-fox-baseball-night-in-america-narrowly-bests-aes-live-pd-for-top-prime-time-telecast-among-adults-18-49/

Family Guy (R) (ADSM, Sat. 6/16/18 10:00 PM, 30 min.)
• 1.097 million viewers (#45)
• 0.611 million adults 18-49 (0.47 A18-49 rating) (#10)

	PROGRAM	Viewers (000)	A1849 rating	A1849 (000)
10:30	Dragon Ball Super	1098	0.52	668
11:00	Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters	923	0.44	563
11:30	My Hero Academia (r)	720	0.34	438
12:00a	FLCL: Progressive	687	0.32	415
12:30a	Jojo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stardust Crusaders	558	0.27	353
1:00a	Hunter X Hunter (r)	532	0.27	343
1:30a	Black Clover (r)	491	0.23	292
2:00a	Naruto: Shippuden (r)	432	0.21	273
2:30a	Space Dandy (r)	368	0.16	210
3:00a	Cowboy Bebop (r)	369	0.16	210
3:30a	Lupin The 3rd: Part 4 (r)	362	0.17	217

I made a mistake in that total viewers report; DBS was actually 1098K, not 1097K, so it DID just barely edge out Family Guy in total viewers, and COMPLETELY KICK ITS BUTT once again in Adults 18-49! But that really doesn't change the average much, and it's still 2nd place since 1st was over 600K.

6/16/18 - Adults 18-49
Show	Total Viewers	Adults 18-49
Family Guy	611,000
DBS	668,000	109.33%
DBZKFC	563,000	84.28%
MHA	438,000	77.80%
FLCL	415,000	94.75%
JoJo	353,000	85.06%
HxH	343,000	97.17%
B. Clover	292,000	85.13%
Shippuden	273,000	93.49%
Dandy	210,000	76.92%
Bebop	210,000	100.00%
Lupin	217,000	103.33%
AVERAGE	362,000	3rd of 24

NICE!!! Now just keep it up next week, Toonami!!

[ben0119]

On 6/19/2018 at 8:46 PM, Ginguy said:

That is a genuinely impressive share pretty much across the board.

Good week for all shows.

I'm wondering if this talk about ratings not mattering as much is due to AT&T acquiring Turner networks/Time Warner.

That merger should have never passed the anti-trust laws.

And I've never seen a network that gets good ratings say ratings don't matter.

Edited June 24, 2018 by ben0119

[OwlChemist81]

How about some insight into how ratings work in Japan?

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2018-06-25/.133369

Maybe Toonami's model is now similar to the Japanese model, in which DBS matters because it's in prime time, and all the other shows matter less because they're in either late night (LN; 11 PM-1 AM) or overnight (ON; 1 AM-4 AM). Though I would say it's not QUITE like that, and there are most likely 3 tiers instead of 2: Rather than only daytime/PT shows' ratings mattering and LN/ON shows essentially being infomercials as in Japan, PT shows' ratings matter more than LN shows', and LN shows' ratings matter more than ON shows'.

Edited June 26, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[Meilag32]

32 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

How about some insight into how ratings work in Japan?

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2018-06-25/.133369

Maybe Toonami's model is now similar to the Japanese model, in which DBS matters because it's in prime time, and all the other shows matter less because they're in either late night (LN; 11 PM-1 AM) or overnight (ON; 1 AM-4 AM). Though I would say it's not QUITE like that, and there are most likely 3 tiers instead of 2: Rather than only daytime/PT shows' ratings mattering and LN/ON shows essentially being infomercials as in Japan, PT shows' ratings matter more than LN shows', and LN shows' ratings matter more than ON shows'.

Not really TV ratings, but Funimation has gone on record that Dragon Ball sales keep not just the lights on, but allows them to sink money into other series they know won't make money (but a certain subset of fans still want).  It seems Goku is the Hero we all needed and is carrying everyone on his shoulders.

[OwlChemist81]

Well, after last week's uber-boost, that made last week's ratings seem more like 2017 ratings, this week things are pretty much back to normal:

That's FLCL2's 3rd-worst performance. But I guess a boneheaded comedy episode of Super didn't set the tone right quite like last week's menacing start combined with Futurama-level timey wimey stuff???

Yeah, that one confuses me as well.

IN OTHER NEWS, Dragon Ball Super will officially break the 10-year weeknight strip action embargo this coming Monday, airing at 8 PM on weeknights, replacing King of the Hill! Too bad it couldn't be DBZ Kai, which arguably did a ton better and has more of a "classic" feel to it.

Edited June 26, 2018 by OwlChemist81

[PokeNirvash]

I fear for next week when Arale and Hoshiiro Girldrop make their appearance.

[OwlChemist81]

I'm actually optimistic about it. Toonami is trying something different, and it will hopefully be rewarding for them!

I would say bars might even get behind it, just for the "what the hell am I watching!?" factor, though usually if they have [as]/Toonami on the sound is off, and you kind of need the dub voices to transmit the zaniness!

[Jman]

16 minutes ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I'm actually optimistic about it. Toonami is trying something different, and it will hopefully be rewarding for them!

I would say bars might even get behind it, just for the "what the hell am I watching!?" factor, though usually if they have [as]/Toonami on the sound is off, and you kind of need the dub voices to transmit the zaniness!

No bar is gonna show Pop Team Epic.  That’s a fact.

[OwlChemist81]

25 minutes ago, Jman said:

No bar is gonna show Pop Team Epic.  That’s a fact.

No, it's not. I know a couple who just leave [as] on the TVs if nothing else is on, and the World Cup is in the daytime. I'm sure 2 or 3 TVs around most towns' nightspots will have it on. Oddly enough, nobody bothers to try Live PD; perhaps because watching a bunch of cops arresting people in real time leaves a bad taste in people's mouths if they've been moderately drinking and trying to stay under the limit?

But if you're talking as some kind of event? Outside of an anime con watch party, I'd say you're right.

Edited June 26, 2018 by OwlChemist81