Columnist for Toei (his words) explains why One Piece flopped in the US and why 4Kids isn’t solely to blame

[Jman]

6 hours ago, ben0119 said:

1. I dunno the episodes I have watched didn't look that bad or seem so slow-paced.  Maybe I haven't gotten to those episodes yet.  But there's a difference between liking the manga and not liking the anime and just not liking the franchise in general, which is what you inexplicably started making fun of, and continued to do even after that pest was removed.

2. Who is Shuri?  And yeah, anime is popular in France, right?  That's how stuff like Totally Spies came about?

That could be money sink, a money pit for Netflix.  But Oda had control over who got picked to play the characters in Funimation's dub supposedly, I wonder how much control he will have over this.  It would also take them eons to cover the material if they go anywhere near to faithfully adapting the story.  Even seriously trimming it down would still go on forever.  Not sure if they know what they're getting into here.  On the other hand, the showrunners wouldn't have to worry about getting totally exposed after they run out of material like what happened with Game of Thrones.   Haven't played any of the Witcher games yet.  Should probably get on that.  I loved season 1 of Mandalorian.  The Borgia and Medici style political drama that happens to take place in a fantasy world that is Game of Thrones never interested me.  Though apparently one of the other questionable things Benioff and Weiss did was minimize the fantasy elements...

1.  True, but it was...fairly easy to lay into.  I dunno, I guess I was still in making fun of the pest mode, coupled with the anime being slow as molasses.

2.  Shuri is the character from Black Panther, T’Challa’s sister who handles all the tech.  And here’s the fake article.

Quite the difference from the big breasted, money hungry redhead navigator, eh?

A lot of French Twitters said that the actress needed to fuck off, she was ugly, the show was doomed if she played Nami, etc.

3.  The Witcher series is based on the books, which come before the games.  It’s also pretty good.  I liked Mandalorian a lot as well, so both were good shows, giving OP big shoes to fill.

[EmpressAngel]

I've seen exactly two Marvel movies and have made no attempt to keep up with the franchise, but how dare anyone promote Endgame on a site I visit. Sure they'll make a lot more money by advertising to the fans who are regular viewers and actively support the property, but what about me!? Isn't my sporadic interest infinitely more important and valuable than all those other people?

[PokeNirvash]

One time in my AP Government class near the end of the semester, we had the option of either continuing an earlier showing of Catch Me If You Can or watching the first Avengers movie from the beginning.

I was the only one who voted for Catch Me If You Can.

[Jman]

20 minutes ago, PokeNirvash said:

One time in my AP Government class near the end of the semester, we had the option of either continuing an earlier showing of Catch Me If You Can or watching the first Avengers movie from the beginning.

I was the only one who voted for Catch Me If You Can.

This is why Scorsese said what he did.

Also not sure what any of this has to do with One Piece besides French Twitter wanting this one actress to stay the fuck away from Nami.

[EmpressAngel]

I was using it as an example of why Ben's freakout about how FUNi posting clips of later in the series is goddamn stupid. I'm sorry, it's my fault for expecting you to understand a basic comparison. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Jman]

10 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

I was using it as an example of why Ben's freakout about how FUNi posting clips of later in the series is goddamn stupid. I'm sorry, it's my fault for expecting you to understand a basic comparison. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So many of Ben’s complaints just blend together at this point I tend to ignore them.  Particularly that one.  I must have missed it since I was focused on the other quoteblock.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Jman

[rpgamer]

Did anyone keep track of how many arcs were mentioned in the defense of the show here? Think I saw at least 3 or 4. That's the sort of thing I hate, and I'd believe could be something that holds the show back. "Oh, it gets really good at this arc!" "Ok, but this arc is definitely where the good stuff is at." Oh, wait, this arc, this is the real primo stuff."

First of all, shouldn't have to wait for it to "get good." Second, it never does. It's always more of the same. Just like with Bleach. You keep trying to stomach more of it in anticipation of that magical mythical transformation into something more bearable, and it's just the same show. Because of course it is. Shows, shounen, don't just completely change what they are like that.

Also, lol at the comparison of OP slow with DBZ slow. I mean, probably I'm biased by more recent exposure to Kai, maybe I've just filtered all the filler out of my memory. Even still, I'd stand by my personal assessment that OP pacing is still more of a slog.

I'd agree with previous suggestion. Give it the Kai treatment. Trim it down by half (at least). Then maybe you've got something worth watching.

It has a premise I wouldn't mind getting to see more of. But the execution/presentation make it kinda bottom-of-the-barrel.

[Top Gun]

I would never make the claim that One Piece "only gets good at arc X," because I submit that it was a good series right from the drop.  What I will say is that for me personally, the series went from "I'm enjoying this" to "I love the shit out of this" with the Arlong Arc.  That was the first time Oda truly exhibited his masterful ability to wring pathos out of a flashback with Nami's backstory, and Luffy putting his beloved hat on Nami's head after she begs him to help and marching on Arlong Park remains one of my all-time favorite moments in the entire series.  (There are some really great moments even before that, though: Sanji's backstory, or Zoro's stand against Mihawk at Baratie, or that original flashback with Shanks being a consummate badass.) Once the series gets through Loguetown and to the Grand Line, it keeps growing and growing in scope and stakes, until you wind up at era-defining wars, global political intrigue, a suppressed history whose existence threatens the current world order, and a direct confrontation with the most powerful beings on the planet.   All that from a kid jumping out of a barrel.  So yeah, OP has fundamentally changed a great deal from its earliest days as a simple quest for adventure.

I would also still put OP at least a bit above the original DBZ in terms of pacing. There's a good reason that "Namek time" became a running joke in anime fandom.  For all of its myriad flaws, I can't remember a single OP episode that consisted of nothing but two characters screaming at the top of their lungs and powering up for minutes on end, and DBZ ABSOLUTELY had that going on. That being said, at this point I'd have to recommend that anyone interested in the series pick up the manga, due to the massive time commitment involved.  I still generally enjoy the anime for its voicework and soundtrack, plus I've never been much of a comics fan.

I do have to lol at the Bleach comparison, because unlike that, One Piece didn't blow its load after its first major arc.  The initial introductory portion was fun and engaging, and it built up to a shounen classic in the Soul Society arc, but after that it plummets downhill in shockingly swift fashion.  Kubo starts introducing gobs of characters that will never ever do anything of consequence (and frequently get flat-out abandoned) in lieu of actual plot progression, the Hueco Mundo arc is an exact retread of the Soul Society arc only much worse (and lol it winds up being utterly pointless), the "final" fight against Aizen is hilariously dumb, and that's where I tapped out but I've read enough about what comes next to make me recoil in horror.  Kubo's editors gave him a few years to craft a satisfying resolution to the story, but he spent most of it fucking around to the point where they all but pulled the plug on him.  Meanwhile Oda's over here more than 20 years later consistently doing his thing, keeping things fresh and winning high praise for the Wano Arc.

[QueenoftheDorks]

I still like Bleach a lot and it endlessly buns me out with what it became in the end. Part of me really feels like it was mostly done and then it got popular and it was like "uhhhh what now?" 

The only thing I can compare it to is Supernatural which was similar in that the creator eventually plotted out five seasons and even gave it a sort of ending but the network wouldn't let the show die and now it's barely a shadow of it's former self.

On 1/14/2020 at 11:36 PM, Top Gun said:

Kubo starts introducing gobs of characters that will never ever do anything of consequence (and frequently get flat-out abandoned)

Hey now. Oda is just as bad. Or do we need to talk about Big Mom's kids??

[EmpressAngel]

3 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said:

Or do we need to talk about Big Mom's kids??

Can we talk about Smoothie?

[PokeNirvash]

What I wanna talk about is how the hell Katakuri can be so cool af one minute...

...and so what tf the next.

Sometimes I wonder what's going through Oda's head when he comes up with these characters.

[Jman]

Oda likes three things - Weird body proportions, big boobs, and wacky faces.

[QueenoftheDorks]

1 hour ago, EmpressAngel said:

Can we talk about Smoothie?

No because I don't even remember what she did.

[EmpressAngel]

2 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

What I wanna talk about is how the hell Katakuri can be so cool af one minute...

...and so what tf the next.

Sometimes I wonder what's going through Oda's head when he comes up with these characters.

He's still sixteen feet tall and buff as shit so, like, what that mouth do bby?

[Top Gun]

9 hours ago, QueenoftheDorks said:

Hey now. Oda is just as bad. Or do we need to talk about Big Mom's kids??

I see your point, and I'll freely admit that Oda got a little...enthusiastic with Big Mom's brood, but at the same time I think there's still a fundamental difference there.  It's been a long-standing expectation that most of the side characters in any given One Piece arc have an impact largely confined to that arc's island, and aren't meant to do anything beyond that.  Arlong's gang, Wapol's henchmen, pretty much everyone in Skypeia, the lower-tier Marine captains on Enies Lobby...pick your poison, but none of them are meant to do anything beyond provide a temporary obstacle.  I'd put most of the Charlotte family in that same exact category.  The only difference is that Oda gave them somewhat more distinct character designs and powers, instead of them all being Generic Enemy #47.  When there's a new group of characters that are meant to have more of a broader impact, Oda makes sure to sell them as such.  The Supernovas are the obvious example, one that's absolutely come to fruition over the past couple of arcs, and it's a pretty sure thing that the Straw Hat Grand Fleet will be as well.  Katakuri is bound to play some sort of significant role later too.

As for Bleach, I'll grant Kubo something like most of the Espada, since they were primarily intended as single-arc villains.  (Though even then you had characters like Harribel, who were apparently meant to do something important later and then...literally vanished into thin air?)  But look at the Gotei 13.  Over two dozen characters dumped mostly at once, characters who are clearly meant to be around for the long haul, and at least a...third(?) of them never do a damn thing outside of filler episodes.  Remember those name charts that got passed around in AD so people could keep them straight.  I looked at those a ton, but if you held a gun to my head and asked me the name of the 1st lieutenant, or even what he sounded like, I could not tell you from Adam.  (Which is even more hilarious considering what Kubo decides to do later.)  The Visored suffer from this same problem, albeit to a lesser degree.

All that aside, the main reason why I think Oda earns the benefit of the doubt here is that he's spent the past two decades digging up seemingly-throwaway characters from hundreds of chapters ago and slotting them into important roles in the story.  Who could have possibly guessed that big doofy Hachi would wind up being the unwilling cause of the Straw Hats' defeat at Sabaody?  Or that Mr. goddamn 3 of all people would play a starring role in Impel Down and Marineford?  One of the coolest parts of the series has been seeing just who will show up next.  So when Oda chucks a whole bunch of new characters at us, I figure the odds are pretty good that we'll be seeing some of those faces again.

[EmpressAngel]

52 minutes ago, Top Gun said:

Though even then you had characters like Harribel, who were apparently meant to do something important later and then...literally vanished into thin air?

Now hey, she didn't vanish. She was just captured and locked in the Nazi Ghost Rape Dungeon, and then everyone forgot they were going to rescue her.

[PokeNirvash]

Like what happened to Bellemere in 4Piece, only not a lazy edit no one thought through before signing off on it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by PokeNirvash

[Top Gun]

That fucking hand.

[PokeNirvash]

Or as I like to call it, the Finger Pistol: American Style.

[QueenoftheDorks]

14 hours ago, Top Gun said:

Remember those name charts that got passed around in AD

Who do you think made it?

After Shabody I admittedly cooled a lot on One Piece. I understand that there's an epic story to be told, but it should still feel like it's about the Straw Hats place in it because a lot of times they feel like side characters in their own series. 

Edited January 19, 2020 by QueenoftheDorks