Shiina Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Spill all the beans don't hold nothing back. I still don't understand this series as much as I'd like to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreHunter Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 it's a mix of real and representations. In episode 16 when Shinji is absorbed by an angel we see this explained in detail. Pretty much our perceptions of others are the reality of how we view them, but it isn't the reality of that persons own self. So ie This is the Misato that exists in Shinji's mind is different from the Misato that exists in Asuka's mind which is different from the True Misato. On the Train in that sequence Shinji is speaking with the Real Asuka, Rei , Misato and asking why they can't just be nice to him. They say that they are nice to him and he freaks out and calls them liars. Everything in his own reality has told him that these people hate him, and he feels that he is deserving of nothing but contempt. He then Shuts himself away and speeks to His representation of Asuka, which is a version of Asuka that acts how he thinks Asuka would act. That is being mean to him and hitting him. Shinji choking Asuka has a few meanings. One is that Asuka represents reality while Rei represents fantasy. Funny enough the Matrix that came out around the same time went red pill = reality blue pill = fantasy around the same time. Either way reality can be harsh and painful, but it's also unpredictable and you can't know happiness without being sad. Fantasy is comforting but engulfing yourself in fantasy escapism means that nothing in your reality will change. So the choking is a symbolic view of rejecting or killing reality to embrace fantasy. Later when we're seeing all those scribbles and he's smiling it's when all the girls in his life are telling him how disgusted they are with him. He is happy because he is getting what he feels he deserves, but he screams in the end as the last False Representation leaves his mind and he's being joined with everyone. He's screaming because the truth was that everyone didn't hate him, but he was happy in thinking that because he hated himself and felt that he deserved nothing more than hate. In the final scene on the Beach he chokes Asuka a last time, but she reacts differently than the Asuka in his mind would have reacted. The reality was different from his expectations and views of people that he can only see more of a persons real self by allowing others in. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Gun Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 Shinji jerks off to a comatose girl, Misato makes out with jailbait, there's one kickass giant robot fight, everyone turns to Tang, there's a giant Rei with a forehead vagoo, 45 minutes of psychobabble bullshit, and Shinji chokes a bitch. The end. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted October 1, 2019 Share Posted October 1, 2019 It's my favorite interpretation of the apocalypse, and as one who fervently dislikes apocalypse scenarios, that's saying quite a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapinator_X Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 He rejects Instrumentality, causing him and Asuka to become the new Adam and Eve. Everyone else assimilates into the Tang ocean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daos Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 You finished EVA? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scope Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 7:04 PM, HardcoreHunter said: it's a mix of real and representations. In episode 16 when Shinji is absorbed by an angel we see this explained in detail. Pretty much our perceptions of others are the reality of how we view them, but it isn't the reality of that persons own self. So ie This is the Misato that exists in Shinji's mind is different from the Misato that exists in Asuka's mind which is different from the True Misato. On the Train in that sequence Shinji is speaking with the Real Asuka, Rei , Misato and asking why they can't just be nice to him. They say that they are nice to him and he freaks out and calls them liars. Everything in his own reality has told him that these people hate him, and he feels that he is deserving of nothing but contempt. He then Shuts himself away and speeks to His representation of Asuka, which is a version of Asuka that acts how he thinks Asuka would act. That is being mean to him and hitting him. Shinji choking Asuka has a few meanings. One is that Asuka represents reality while Rei represents fantasy. Funny enough the Matrix that came out around the same time went red pill = reality blue pill = fantasy around the same time. Either way reality can be harsh and painful, but it's also unpredictable and you can't know happiness without being sad. Fantasy is comforting but engulfing yourself in fantasy escapism means that nothing in your reality will change. So the choking is a symbolic view of rejecting or killing reality to embrace fantasy. Later when we're seeing all those scribbles and he's smiling it's when all the girls in his life are telling him how disgusted they are with him. He is happy because he is getting what he feels he deserves, but he screams in the end as the last False Representation leaves his mind and he's being joined with everyone. He's screaming because the truth was that everyone didn't hate him, but he was happy in thinking that because he hated himself and felt that he deserved nothing more than hate. In the final scene on the Beach he chokes Asuka a last time, but she reacts differently than the Asuka in his mind would have reacted. The reality was different from his expectations and views of people that he can only see more of a persons real self by allowing others in. Well thought out, pretty much this. End of Evangelion is pretty much what the last two episodes of the series could've been but the core of the themes and characters mirrors those last two episodes even if the plot differs dramatically, the plot of End of Eva is just a mouthpiece to drive home the themes of struggling with depression, how it affects different people, causes them to externalize it in very different ways, ultimately finding a way to break the cycle and change perspective. In episode 25 of the original series we see Shinji in internal monologue mode about his experiences throughout the series and his emotions, he's in his own head, mirroring the version of Shinji we see in the first half of the film, he's completely shelled in. As episode 25 progresses and into episode 26 we see the other main characters in internal monologue much like Shinji's, showing that he's not the only one struggling with self esteem issues and depression, at the end of episode 26 Shinji has something of an epiphany and breaks out of his shell, choosing to (try) to not let his inner voice control him, choosing to try to move forward. This mirrors Shinji's rejection of instrumentality at the end of the film and there are also themes of an uncertain future they share. Now this part is very much open to interpretation, but I view the instrumentality project as symbolism for suicide, it occurs to Shinji he doesn't want to move forward (ep 25/first half of film) the choice of instrumentality presents itself shortly after, a return to where it all began, reverting to humanity becoming one, to an uncertain void, but no matter how you view it ultimately Shinji decides to move forward in both ends in the only reality he knows, the Congratulations scene mirroring the choice he made that resulted in the ending scene with him on what's left of Earth with Asuka. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiina Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 10/1/2019 at 7:04 PM, HardcoreHunter said: it's a mix of real and representations. In episode 16 when Shinji is absorbed by an angel we see this explained in detail. Pretty much our perceptions of others are the reality of how we view them, but it isn't the reality of that persons own self. So ie This is the Misato that exists in Shinji's mind is different from the Misato that exists in Asuka's mind which is different from the True Misato. On the Train in that sequence Shinji is speaking with the Real Asuka, Rei , Misato and asking why they can't just be nice to him. They say that they are nice to him and he freaks out and calls them liars. Everything in his own reality has told him that these people hate him, and he feels that he is deserving of nothing but contempt. He then Shuts himself away and speeks to His representation of Asuka, which is a version of Asuka that acts how he thinks Asuka would act. That is being mean to him and hitting him. Shinji choking Asuka has a few meanings. One is that Asuka represents reality while Rei represents fantasy. Funny enough the Matrix that came out around the same time went red pill = reality blue pill = fantasy around the same time. Either way reality can be harsh and painful, but it's also unpredictable and you can't know happiness without being sad. Fantasy is comforting but engulfing yourself in fantasy escapism means that nothing in your reality will change. So the choking is a symbolic view of rejecting or killing reality to embrace fantasy. Later when we're seeing all those scribbles and he's smiling it's when all the girls in his life are telling him how disgusted they are with him. He is happy because he is getting what he feels he deserves, but he screams in the end as the last False Representation leaves his mind and he's being joined with everyone. He's screaming because the truth was that everyone didn't hate him, but he was happy in thinking that because he hated himself and felt that he deserved nothing more than hate. In the final scene on the Beach he chokes Asuka a last time, but she reacts differently than the Asuka in his mind would have reacted. The reality was different from his expectations and views of people that he can only see more of a persons real self by allowing others in. some of that makes sense... how the fuck did you figure out half of that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiina Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 8:49 AM, imchapp.in said: He rejects Instrumentality, causing him and Asuka to become the new Adam and Eve. Everyone else assimilates into the Tang ocean. wait a minute. what happens to everyone then if their bodies are destroyed? Now their souls need to go someplace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiina Posted October 4, 2019 Author Share Posted October 4, 2019 On 10/2/2019 at 10:57 AM, Daos said: You finished EVA? they need to play that shit when i get laid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreHunter Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 9:17 PM, Shiina said: some of that makes sense... how the fuck did you figure out half of that? I've watched the show a lot, and spent a good chunk of time talking about it. Series also has lots of parental issues. Ritsuko wanted to be noticed by her mother. When her mother died, she changed to coveting everything her mother had. Misato claims that she has become her father which she dislikes, and Misato and Ritsuko both claimed that Shinji is much like his Father. This is actually true as both characters push others away and isolate themselves not knowing how to properly express themselves. Asuka's inferiority complex was brought on by her fathers neglect after the death of her mother, that she has to be great to be noticed, and the praise of others is validation of her own existence. Rei II contemplates her own individuality; eventually coming to the realization that she is not Yui or the other Rei, and is and individual. Much of this is brought on through transference of her feelings for Gendo and Shinji. The Dummy Plug System that she would get in periodically is fairly similar yet different from the teaching beds in the venture bros. When she gets in the tube it copies her brain pattern to the clones in the tank. However the transference is spotty, and doesn't transfer exact memories; but rather the electro neural paths that stimulate thought in the brain. This can cause an emotional response even without the proper correlating memory as your mind will attempt to fill in the blanks. This is why Rei III doesn't fully remember Shinji when he speaks to her. As well she sees Gendo's glasses and cries while seeing them due to the emotional trigger, but has no idea why she is crying because she lacks the memory of Gendo saving Rei II. Rei III's mind eventually interprets Rei II's conflicted maternal feelings towards Shinji as Romantic; on top of Rei II's feelings of individuality, and chooses Shinji over Gendo; and her defiant words to him "I won't be a puppet for you to control". As well Gendo really isn't the Mastermind that people give him credit for and more of a pawn. When Fuyutski is sent to pick a young Gendo up from prison, the officer releasing him tells Gendo that he must have some powerful friends. However at the time Gendo had no connections. Yui though had connections with Seele from the start. Yui was the one with a plan, and for that plan she needed someone who had ambition. Fuyutski was her original choice due to his fatherly nature, however she found that he lacked any ambition for her plan to succeed; so she found out about a scientist who was combative and even get into fights over his views. Gendo was chosen from the start by Yui to be the father of her child. She then would tell him things about her backers "seele" to manipulate him into wanting to use her as a means to get to them. Before Shinji was even born she would have begun cloning herself. We know this due to the Rei clones aging in real time. For her to be the same age as Shinji and Asuka she would have to have been started around the same time. I do not believe that she had a plan for the Dummy Plug System at the time, and only wanted the clones to eventually be used as a key for instrumentality. It is unknown if Gendo knew about the clones before or after Yui's merger with Eva which was also all part of her plan. Gendo sends Shinji away which while seeming cold was how he felt was the only way to keep his son out of danger. He only calls Shinji back as a last resort when Rei is so injured that piloting the eva again would most likely kill her, but has no qualms in pulling the trigger on that if Shinji doesn't want to. He also tires to get Shinji to leave as he would be in immediate danger should Rei fail. Gendo even created the Dummy Plug System using Rei clones to pilot the Eva in place of Shinji. He also only implements the Dummy Plug when Shinji refuses to fight and is on the verge of being killed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreHunter Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 9:19 PM, Shiina said: wait a minute. what happens to everyone then if their bodies are destroyed? Now their souls need to go someplace... Yui says that all people can return if they choose so. However we don't know how long that will take. It could be days to centuries before another person comes to terms with their individuality and separates form the assimilation. Until then Asuka and Shinji are treated as Adam and Eve, and it is also unknown how long it took for the both of them to emerge since instrumentality began. It could have been thousands of years seeing as Shinji lived through an unknown number of lives. It is also possible that the entire series that we had watched was just one of those simulated realities, and every time he rejected one of those realities he began another instrumentality. In Rebuild it is alluded that the series is a loop. We see remnants from EOE and the TV series in Rebuild. The moon having the large blood streak across it. The Kaworu pod floating in Space and him knowing who Shinji is. A large Chalk outline of an angel on a hillside and the Lance being in space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naraku360 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 It's the end of Evangelion. The end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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