Out of the shonen on Toonami that nobody watches...

[Gyaos]

I like One Piece the most. It has the best filler of all because I adore the characters in that show. So 700+ episodes doesn't bother me that much, because it has characters I care about.

 

Hunter x Hunter I tolerate simply because it has parts that I loved in the manga. Have yet to see them in anime form, but tbf the manga had better pacing even with Togashi's constant hiatuses. Wish he'd get someone else to draw his manga while he works on the script instead, but he's too proud to let that happen. He'll probably die before it gets finished.

 

As for Naruto Shippuden, I never bothered to read past the Chūnin Exams. I stopped tuning in when I was well into high school (10+ years ago), so that says a lot about how much I care what happens to it.

[naraku360]

Other than the Hunters just not letting him be a hunter and keeping an eye on him? I have no idea. The author is very stingy with details about the world and how it works.

 

I would assume every country in HxH had it's own military with powerful nen users  in order to deal with people like that.  But that's just a wild guess at this point.

 

But are you really going to tell me that giving a serial killer the ability to go almost anywhere and kill with almost no consequences isn't the tiniest bit illogical? Unless the Hunter Org is just a bunch of aholes intent on sowing death and chaos everywhere.  From the lack of information ... that could be the case as well.

I'm saying they don't give him the ability to kill almost anywhere and get away with it. The Zoldycks, for example, are effectively bounty hunters. They don't kill unless they're hired to take out a bounty - or rather they aren't supposed to and aside from Illumi, who goes out of his way to cover his tracks, they generally don't.

 

Who do you think provides the Nen users? And there's a literal sequence in the show where a character attacks civilians and, despite being a Hunter, the Association sends people to hunt him.

 

Netero really doesn't care about anyone that doesn't entertain him, so there's that.

[ben0119]

I enjoy railing on HxH. It's fans seem to think it's some sort of brilliant subversion of the Shonen genre instead of a poorly written and paced Shonen by an author who burnt out years ago and only returns to churn out a few more chapters when his funds are running low. And no it's not because of his back.

 

And you get insane logic defying justifications for the shaky plot points, like Top guns "Well his house is out in the wilderness so obviously that's why a 12 year old is  unphased by the massive body count and seeing hearts ripped out of chests."

 

It's good stuff. Look how much action this thread has gotten! A OP thread wouldn't have gone this far.

[ben0119]

Here's a valid question: would that benefit the story in any tangible way?  Would it aid the narrative that Togashi is telling?  Because I don't really see how it would.  Hell, if anything I think a reaction to a couple of background characters who don't even get any dialog would feel jarringly out-of-place.  "Here, have an artificial shocked reaction over randos that no one gives a damn about!"  The Hunter Exam is a very dangerous trial that frequently turns deadly for the foolish and unprepared, and any of the entrants who knew anything at all about it going in would implicitly understand and accept this.  They all had more than enough to worry about with keeping themselves alive and dealing with the challenges of the exam.  Most of the candidates, people like Hisoka and Killua, have been surrounded by and/or directly caused death for their entire lives.  Why should anyone blink at what's going on?  You keep talking about wanting all of this extraneous background as to why lives are cheap in this world, but at the end of the day isn't it enough to simply know that they are for now?  It's a principle of good storytelling to keep the narrative as trimmed-down as it possibly can be without compromising what needs to be told, and the Hunter Exam is a perfect example of "show, don't tell" in terms of establishing a particular tone.  The lack of characters' reactions says far more about the setting than any sort of narration ever could.  There's ample time later for Togashi to further explore the overall social situation of his world if he chooses, but it would be very much extraneous and out-of-place this early in the story.

 

As for Gon, the reason I cited his childhood was to demonstrate that he didn't have a standard upbringing.  Yes, he was raised by his aunt, but he spent a great deal of time out in the wild, which is what honed his extraordinarily acute senses.  For my money it's also a big part of what makes Gon somewhat unique among shounen protagonists.  He initially comes across as your typical plucky happy-go-lucky Goku-mold Jump lead, but dig a bit deeper and there's a certain coldness below the surface.  Gon frequently has trouble with controlling his emotions, and his entire motivation for going after Hisoka is simple revenge for a perceived personal humiliation.  He's already flat-out threatened to kill at least one other person thus far, something that the likes of Goku or Luffy or Naruto would never do.  Normal societal conventions are essentially alien to Gon: while Leorio and Kurapica recoiled at Killua ripping that murderer's heart out, Gon didn't bat an eye at it, simply because he'd already pegged Killua as a Good Person that he liked.  They were friends, so it simply didn't matter to him.  In the same way, he barely noticed when Hisoka killed multiple people around him, because the desire to beat him was paramount.  Honestly it's this sort of interesting dynamic that made me a fan of the series, because Togashi's able to play these standard shounen conventions perfectly straight, and then turn right around and subvert them in surprising ways.

Oh yeah, because there's no sort of extraneous mundane bullshit in this show and it's so trim, lean, and mean.  It's paced oh so ever fucking well.  BEHOLD THE GRIPPING STORY OF TWO YOUNG BOYS HUNTING FOR A VINTAGE GAME CONSOLE!  Behold the edge of your seat brilliance of entire episodes dedicated to opening doors and making phone calls!

 

It's all show no tell!  That's why we literally had an entire episode of people sitting around talking, and another episode of people running and telling each other their backstories. 

 

And why does Gon have this issue?  He lived on a populated, civilized island.  I can't really see being a "country boy" as his reason for being a quasi-sociopath, either.  If anything, people that have to live and survive and make their own lives off the land (even though Gon didn't have to!) would understand more than anyone how precious life is.

 

Subversions... pgggfffffbbbtt AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Of what we've seen thus far?  The candle thing, the fork in the road thing?  All cliche as fuck.  Seen it all before.  Don't know what show you were watching.

 

And for that matter, if you knew anything about Goku, you'd know he doesn't exactly follow normal social conventions or cues.  He's constantly doing bizarre and inappropriate shit that people freak out over, especially early on.  I mean, in the first episode, he lifted up Bulma's skirt to see if she had a tail. And let's not forget Goku acting like a jackass as an adult and people continually calling him on it.

 

Really, if Gon wasn't such a nonsensical, illogically-written character, there wouldn't be much to talk about, because he's pretty boring and doesn't have much of a personality in general.

 

The thing is, we are given no context for this Hunter Exam.  The show goes from 1 episode of Gon catching a fish, to multiple lead-up episodes of EVERYTHING IS PART OF THE TEST, to a Game of Fucking Death.  We don't know if this considered normal for this world or irregular, because there's no context.  So the reactions or lack thereof to the deaths and other things in the Hunter Exam doesn't tell us much of anything.  Either way, the "story" Togashi is telling isn't interesting.  The only thing to talk about are the baffling writing decisions.  Would having people act normally and react to death in some manner (or have some sort of explanation for why they don't) make the show make more sense and be less frustrating?  Possibly.  But it still wouldn't be interesting.

 

Just face it, Togashi sucks as a writer and doesn't understand human psychology, how to tell a story, or how the world works.

[ben0119]

At this point, the only thing here that's illogical is the fact that you're still challenging him with your bullshit. Is your opinion so goddamn important to you, that you don't want to admit that he's right? That's totally fucking it, isn't it?

You must have oxygen deprivation from your masks if you think Top Gun is anything close to right.

[ben0119]

I'm saying they don't give him the ability to kill almost anywhere and get away with it. The Zoldycks, for example, are effectively bounty hunters. They don't kill unless they're hired to take out a bounty - or rather they aren't supposed to and aside from Illumi, who goes out of his way to cover his tracks, they generally don't.

 

Who do you think provides the Nen users? And there's a literal sequence in the show where a character attacks civilians and, despite being a Hunter, the Association sends people to hunt him.

 

Netero really doesn't care about anyone that doesn't entertain him, so there's that.

Not really sure why there's any need for Illumi to "cover his tracks" when no one gives a shit if you kill people.

 

There's a literal sequence where Illumi asks Netero if he could kill everyone in the room and it wouldn't be against the rules and he'd still get his license, and Netero confirms this.  There was no indication that licenses could be revoked, either, so...

 

If the "logic" here is "Oh they let people like Hisoka and Illumi become Hunters so that their misdeeds would be more out in the open as Hunters and they could be punished then!"  ...Since when did Netero or this Hunter Organization care about legalities, moralities, or keeping up appearances?  And don't tell me they don't know these guys have killed people.  Hisoka and Illumi are part of the underground, which the Hunter Org clearly deals with, given the Zoldycks and the type of Hunter Kurapika wanted to become, etc.  And just as they committed their crimes in the shadows, they could be taken out in the shadows.  Soooooo yeah, not really a good excuse.

[PokeNirvash]

You must have oxygen deprivation from your masks if you think Top Gun is anything close to right.

 

You're just mad because he is right, World Autofellatio Champion.

[Top Gun]

Gonna just ignore the drooling sperging here for all our sakes.

 

You think the authors ambivalence towards death in this series is logical. Without providing any justifiable reason for the characters acting this way.... it really isn't.

I've already provided multiple justifiable reasons.  The majority of people we follow in the series have been killing for most of their lives, and those who haven't largely have an intimate familiarity with death.  (See: Kurapica)  They're not going to blink too much at having random people die around them.  As far as the public at large goes, look at Heaven's Arena: it's obviously a clear expy for the Roman Colosseum, right?  Tell me, was the Roman public particularly horrified at the idea of gladiatorial combat to the death?  Not at all.  Even pre-Enlightenment Europe largely had no problem with duels to the death among the aristocracy.  If there are real-world examples of a general public either unconcerned or even actively entertained by acts of deadly violence, is it that much of a stretch of logic to see the same portrayed in a fictional universe?

 

(Honestly it's even a bit of a reflection of the expected audience reaction.  Would anyone watching the scene where the random background mooks failed at cliff-diving for eggs be expected to think anything other than, "Lol, sucks to be them"?)

 

Killua and Hisoka? Sure. An assassin and crazed killer. Wouldn't expect them to care much. But everyone else? Their attitudes aren't any different.  You keep saying Gon doesn't hold any societal norms... but why wouldn't he? He seems happy go lucky, raised in a stable house in a fishing village by an Aunt that seems pretty nice and easy going.  But despite that he's basically a sociopath who doesn't blink at the deaths of others, or when his own life is in danger. I mean... if he's supposed to be a sociopath..... then his character makes sense. But the story hasn't established that.

 

This is something that people are going to notice and find off putting.

This is one place where I think the 2011 adaptation does a bit of a disservice.  The 1999 version spends a full episode with Gon's earlier childhood, and it's made much clearer that despite living with his aunt, he spent a great deal of that childhood basically running around in the wild.  Admittedly I probably oversold the "this is possibly why death doesn't bug him" angle, but at the very least he didn't have much in the way of normal interactions with society.  And while I wouldn't go nearly so far as to claim that Gon is a sociopath, the show does establish early on that he has different reactions to people and situations than one might expect, and it's built up as part of his character.  I'm not sure how a main protagonist differing from the norm is "off-putting" when it's as old a trope as fiction itself.

 

And really, giving Hisoka a Hunters licence..... after almost 40 episodes you should probably explain why any organization thinks this is a good idea.

The very fact that it obviously isn't a good idea tells you something about the Hunter Organization, doesn't it?  Remember that Netero, the chairman of the organization, interviewed each of the remaining candidates halfway through the exam, and yet he doesn't seem to give a damn about the type of person Hisoka obviously is.  So it's very obvious that the Organization, at least as represented by Netero, is essentially amoral: they're seemingly interested in enlisting the strongest individuals, regardless of their temperament or proclivities.  (Even the examiner in charge of the Trick Tower portion of the Exam was a pretty scummy guy.)  So the series is making it clear early on that we as viewers shouldn't necessarily trust the motivations of the Organization.  This is a perfect example of what I meant by "show, don't tell": this aspect of the story is presented to the viewer in a certain light, the viewer is left to draw their own conclusions as to why it's so, and the story is free to expand upon the reasons why later on.  I'm not going to claim that it's simply because the Organization wants to keep tabs on dangerous individuals, since I don't have enough evidence to make that argument either way, but I'm free to speculate until the series provides additional information later on.

 

At the end of the day, if you want to say that some of the things HxH does aren't working for you, that's just fine by me.  But trying to pass these off as "bad writing" instead of personal preference is where I take issue.  I won't sit here and claim that the series is perfect, but I certainly will defend how it establishes its characters and worldview as perfectly adequate.

[naraku360]

You don't understand, Top Gun[/member].

 

No media has ever presented a governance with questionable ethical conduct! Never! It'd be totally unrealistic for any government to be amoral!

[CaptainStarwind]

Hiatus is more disappointing than going to the theater and finding out Episodes VII, VIII, and IX are the re-mastered Ewok movies and Holiday Special.

 

That would be an improvement over what we got for Episode VII.

[CaptainStarwind]

TL;DR

 

Lot's of pointless arguments

Ben spamming post count

Mondo trolling

Lots of different factions

 

There, I described the entire thread prior to this point for any newbies coming in.

[MasqueradeOverture]

That would be an improvement over what we got for Episode VII.

 

...

 

Them fighting words, son...

[Jman]

That would be an improvement over what we got for Episode VII.

 

Out.  Now.

 

Episode 7 was a freaking joy compared to what had passed for Star Wars.

[Daos]

Out.  Now.

 

Episode 7 was a freaking joy compared to what had passed for Star Wars.

 

I think that's partly why it got such rave reviews. People were happy it wasn't another Phantom Menace or 2 hours of Hayden Christiensen whining.

[MasqueradeOverture]

I think that's partly why it got such rave reviews. People were happy it wasn't another Phantom Menace or 2 hours of Hayden Christiensen whining.

 

I really like Revenge Of The Sith, but holy shit is VII an improvement upon the prequels (better than Return Of The Jedi too I think).

 

Speaking of which, I can't watch A New Hope anymore without watching Rogue One right before it in one sitting. Adds to the experience imo.

[Daos]

The last half hour of Clones and Revenge of the Sith were pretty solid. People were so pissed about the first two prequels that they didn't really give Sith enough credit I think.

[MasqueradeOverture]

Idk. I think it mostly has to do with it being "Green Screen: The Movie" and having to sit through Hayden Christensen's God-awful acting (though people seem to forget Hamill's acting / line delivery in A New Hope wasn't that hot either).

[CaptainStarwind]

...

 

Them fighting words, son...

Admittedly, I was in a pretty shitty mood when I was on here before. 

 

I don't necessarily hate Episode VII, but my enjoyment for it has been really tainted by everybody going fucking nuts over it when it first came out, calling it the best out of all the Star Wars movies, making such a big deal out it like it meant something special to Hollywood, etc.  People like that can really ruin things for me, especially when I can't get away from hearing it.

[ben0119]

Admittedly, I was in a pretty shitty mood when I was on here before. 

 

I don't necessarily hate Episode VII, but my enjoyment for it has been really tainted by everybody going fucking nuts over it when it first came out, calling it the best out of all the Star Wars movies, making such a big deal out it like it meant something special to Hollywood, etc.  People like that can really ruin things for me, especially when I can't get away from hearing it.

Sounds like you're a hipster then.

[ben0119]

You don't understand, Top Gun[/member].

 

No media has ever presented a governance with questionable ethical conduct! Never! It'd be totally unrealistic for any government to be amoral!

The thing is, there's no context for it.  We don't know if the Hunter Org. is considered good or bad by the people that live in the world, namely because nobody seems to give a fuck about anything.  There can't be "bad" or "good" or anything else between if we don't set a baseline.

[ben0119]

You're just mad because he is right, World Autofellatio Champion.

That was random.  Anyway, Hiatus sucks and he's wrong.  Accept it.

[ben0119]

TL;DR

 

Lot's of pointless arguments

Ben spamming post count

Mondo trolling

Lots of different factions

 

There, I described the entire thread prior to this point for any newbies coming in.

Spamming post count?!  Every one of my posts is a priceless treasure of wisdom!  And when arguments need to be made and points need to be reiterated... I'll be there to make sure "a guy is wrong in the internet" justice is done. >

 

I don't see any trolling here.

[ben0119]

That would be an improvement over what we got for Episode VII.

You take that back right now.

[ben0119]

Idk. I think it mostly has to do with it being "Green Screen: The Movie" and having to sit through Hayden Christensen's God-awful acting (though people seem to forget Hamill's acting / line delivery in A New Hope wasn't that hot either).

People complain about bad acting and clunky dialogue in the prequels... I'm like, have you ever seen Star Wars?  I've also heard the argument that Lucas' "clunky dialogue" is more realistic, since people don't talk perfectly in real life.  It's a good point.

 

As far as Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, they're my least favorite Star Wars movies, but to me they are still good movies, good Star Wars movies.  Phantom Menace gets a lot of beef for the slice of life moments.  If we don't have those moments then there's no reason for us to care about the characters when the shit actually hits the fan.  Why do we care if Anakin is leaving his home if we spend like 2 minutes there?  Besides, the pod race, ligthsaber battle, space battle, and ground battle are undeniably awesome.  As far as "green screen the movie," each individual Prequel had more practical effects than the original movies combined, and I don't see the issue if the effects are done well.  As for Attack of the Clones, I think there's a lot of great parts in it that are undersold, like Anakin finding his mother and going after the Sand People.  Not enough credit is given to the visuals of scenes that match the mood, either, like when he's searching for his mother and what happens after that.  Revenge of the Sith is the second best Star Wars after Empire, I don't care what anyone says.  I should probably make a general SW thread, getting on a tangent here.  Anyway, here's my personal rankings -

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. Revenge of the Sith

3. Rogue One

3. Return of the Jedi

5. The Force Awakens

6. A New Hope

7. Attack of the Clones

8. The Phantom Menace

[MasqueradeOverture]

So we're doing this now, are we?

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. The Force Awakens

3. A New Hope

4. Revenge Of The Sith

5. Rogue One

6. Return Of The Jedi

7. Attack Of The Clones

8. The Phantom Menace

 

Attack Of The Clones is mediocre, but I can still dig it. The Phantom Menace is the only Star Wars movie that actively angers me (how dare they put the two best scenes of the prequels in the worst movie).

[CaptainStarwind]

I like how you responded to this first, then later responded my earlier post like you hadn't read this one.  Not an insult or anything, just interesting is all.

 

Sounds like you're a hipster then.

 

Oh GOD no.  I'll take Miller Lite (or espeically Yuengling, if I can afford it) over PBR any day of the week.

 

In all seriousness, though:

 

There is a difference between disliking something BECAUSE it is popular and disliking it ALTHOUGH it is popular.  This is something that can be confusing, and a distinction has to be made. 

 

There's nothing wrong at all with liking something popular; it wouldn't be popular in the first place if there wasn't something of merit to it.  Take the Marvel Universe, for example.  Fifteen years ago, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would believe that any superhero movie not starring Superman, Batman, or the X-Men could be made successfully.  And now?  Marvel has a juggernaut of a franchise with the Marvel Universe, has made consistently good movies that, while perhaps being a bit formulaic, are still both entertaining and fun to watch, has brought characters that only the most diehard of comic book fans would know of to the mainstream, and has pleased both comic book fans and the mainstream audiences with it's movies.  It effectively brought new life to a dead genre, and has set the next trend for everybody to follow.  DC has already done so with their DC Universe movies, and even Universal is getting in on the action, trying to relaunch their horror movie icons as a new ensemble piece.  I think it's safe to say that Marvel superhero movies are pretty popular.

 

And does this mean that I hate the movies?  No, not at all!  While I definitely don't see every movie released when it comes out (being a broke college kid making $40 a week will do that to ya), I do watch the movies when I get a chance, and I've never been truly disappointed when it came to a Marvel movie.  Sure, there are some moments I don't particularly like, or some things that I felt were contrived, but you can identify that in really any movie, not just Marvel ones.  Despite their popularity, I enjoy Marvel movies, and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

 

Now let's talk about Star Wars.  Star Wars is also a juggernaut of a franchise.  Star Wars has also been popular for far longer than Marvel films have, and it's influence on popular culture can't be understated.  The first two movies (Episode IV and Episode V, I mean) are in the National Film Registry, and for good reason.  Episode IV is the movie that cemented summer as the time for blockbuster films, and, in a way, signified the beginning of the end for the New Hollywood era of film-making.  The movie has achieved full pop culture status; even if you've never seen the movie, you know what it's about.  You know the characters, you know the dilemma, and you know the story.  You can show Darth Vader's mask to anybody, and they can tell you who he is and that he's from Star Wars.  Episode V is widely considered not only the best Star Wars movie in the entire series, but also one of the greatest movies ever made.  Much like Episode IV, Episode V has achieved a pop culture status of it's own, though not to the extent of the first movie.  Still, though, anyone can tell you who Yoda is, and, probably most telling, everybody in the world knows that Darth Vader is the father of Luke Skywalker.  Even with the addition of the more polarizing Episode VI, the original Star Wars trilogy is a classic, and set the stage for Star Wars to become a massive media franchise.

 

The prequel films, while definitely far more polarizing than the original trilogy, still have their merits.  I agree with Masquerade's assessment that Episode III is the best of the prequel trilogy, and a pretty good movie overall: Personally I still find Anakin's motivation for joining the Dark Side to be stupid as all hell, but that's neither here nor there.  The movies have all the elements there to be successful films, and in the hands of a more competent director than Lucas, perhaps they would have been better received. 

 

And then we come to the sequel trilogy.  I've already admitted that when I first mentioned the movie I was pretty pissed at the world, which is generally a bad sign when I comment on anything.  So, what does calm, collected and happy CaptainStarwind think of Episode VII, barring all other opinions: I think it's a good movie.  Definitely better than Episode I, and maybe even better than Episode IV.  Not better than Episode V, though.  I won't give it that.  The movie definitely captures the feeling that I get when I watch the Star Wars original trilogy.  I like the main cast of three characters we have in the movie (Finn, Rei, and Poe): they're are all similar to the trio in the original trilogy (Luke, Leia, and Han), yet sufficiently different that they're their own characters, rather than expys of the original three.  The First Order serves well as a replacement for the Empire: not much was needed here to fill the role of the big bad, and the First Order does it well.  I like the newfound diversity in the movie: females, aliens, and non-whites find roles in the movie, and it makes the world seem larger.  Of course there were some things I didn't like about the movie: I absolutely hate Kylo Ren as a villain for all the wrong reasons, and I think the story is too similar to Episode IV.  They don't really ruin my enjoyment of the movie, though, and if I had the money to afford a Blu-ray copy, I'd probably buy it.

 

My main reason for backlash against the movie comes from fans of it.  I don't mean people who watch the movie and like it, or people who like to debate theories about the movie; I'm one of those people, so I can't really hate people for doing it.  My backlash comes from the crazy fucks who proclaim the movie is without flaws and refuse to accept criticism of it, or the people who take one single aspect of the movie and blow it far out of proportions.  I guess this is something I should expect from the internet in the modern world, but I still continue to be naive.  I think the worst of it comes when people take something about the movie, such as Rei being the Jedi, for example, and go on to post about how the The Force Awakens is "breaking boundaries" and "being progressive" for having a female main character.  Now I don't have a problem with Rei being the main character: she's well written and well acted.  I don't see her in terms of being a woman, I see her in terms of being a strong and well acted main character to a movie.  My problem lies in that these people focus on one aspect of her character: that of her being a female.  They see nothing else, or at least care nothing else, of her character, other than that she is a woman.  And they go on about it.  And on.  And on.  And on.  And on some more.  It doesn't help that most of my Facebook friends were the ones who posted this stuff.  It annoyed me to the extent that I've practically deleted my Facebook now. 

 

So is it right for me to have backlash against the film for things that it's stupid fans post?  I suppose not.  It isn't the film that's the problem, anyway.  But it's still something that happens from time to time, and it usually takes a nice long vent for me to be able come back down and actually like the film and ignore the stupidity of parts of the fanbase.

 

A nice long vent.

 

Much like this was. 

 

 

[CaptainStarwind]

So we're doing this now, are we?

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. The Force Awakens

3. A New Hope

4. Revenge Of The Sith

5. Rogue One

6. Return Of The Jedi

7. Attack Of The Clones

8. The Phantom Menace

 

Attack Of The Clones is mediocre, but I can still dig it. The Phantom Menace is the only Star Wars movie that actively angers me (how dare they put the two best scenes of the prequels in the worst movie).

 

I've not yet seen Rouge One, but my order is pretty much identical to yours otherwise:

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. The Force Awakens

3. A New Hope

4. Return of the Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith

6. Attack of the Clones

7. The Phantom Menace

 

I have a lot of nostalgic love for Return of the Jedi that I don't have for any of the prequels, so that pushes it above all of them.

 

Admittedly it's more fun watching the prequels under the "Darth Jar-Jar" camp.

[MasqueradeOverture]

Um...she's spelled "Rey."

 

She's a Kenobi, not an Ayanami.

[CaptainStarwind]

Um...she's spelled "Rey."

 

She's a Kenobi, not an Ayanami.

 

I realized that once I finished but I'm lazy and didn't really feel like going back and fixing it.  Especially since I had spent over an hour typing that thing out.

 

Besides, I think the name Rei suits her better.  Though if she turns out to be a clone of Finn's mother I'm walking out of the movie.

 

EDIT: Also fuck it if she turns out to really be the granddaughter of Obi-Wan or whatever.  That's so contrived that the only thing worse than that would having her be Luke's daughter.

[PokeNirvash]

(how dare they put the two best scenes of the prequels in the worst movie).

 

Now that is podracing.

[ben0119]

I realized that once I finished but I'm lazy and didn't really feel like going back and fixing it.  Especially since I had spent over an hour typing that thing out.

 

Besides, I think the name Rei suits her better.  Though if she turns out to be a clone of Finn's mother I'm walking out of the movie.

 

EDIT: Also fuck it if she turns out to really be the granddaughter of Obi-Wan or whatever.  That's so contrived that the only thing worse than that would having her be Luke's daughter.

Yeah it's too late now once I saw it. x_x Too tired but will respond when I get the chance.

 

No it doesn't.  And fuck Eva.

 

Her being Luke's daughter would kinda make sense, though.  She lives on a shitty backwoods desert planet, she has a doll of a rebel pilot, has that helmet.  She's good with machines, decent fighter, a decent pilot.  The saber calls to her as it did Anakin and Luke.  The reveal doesn't have to be a big surprise.  And most casual fans aren't going to care if it was "too obvious."  A lot of people walked out of the theater thinking she was Luke's daughter, so a twist to something more annoying and nonsensical probably wouldn't sit well.  The Kenobi thing would be stupid as fuck. 

 

Then again, I've heard it said that her parents are in fact just 2 random deadbeats that left her on the planet.  Some obvious things were pointed out that we've overlooked.  When the spaceship takes off, Rey is already wearing the desert garb.  It doesn't make sense for her to be wearing that clothes if someone just dropped her there.  Rey says "come back."  She doesn't say "take me with you!"  When Rey sees Takodana she says she didn't know there was so much green in the entire galaxy.  So, it sounds like she's always lived there and her parents were just awful people who took off the first chance they got and that dumped her there.  Then you have Maz Kanada saying "whoever you're waiting for, they aren't coming back.  But someone still could."  Which implies that Luke is not among the people that left her there.  So maybe there's no mindwipe or heritage to past characters or anything.  I've also heard the argument that Ben Solo was given that name for Luke, since Ben was much more special to Luke than Han or Leia, and if Luke didn't have any children, he wouldn't be able to name any of them Ben... Finally we have Daisey Ridley herself saying she thought the identity of Rey's parents was obvious after seeing the movie.  I mean if it were any other movie we'd probably take the information we were given at face value and understand Rey's parents abandoned her and don't matter.  But since it's Star Wars...

 

So yeah maybe we are all overthinking this and Rey really does come from nothing.  Not sure how audiences would take that, though.

[ben0119]

I've not yet seen Rouge One, but my order is pretty much identical to yours otherwise:

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. The Force Awakens

3. A New Hope

4. Return of the Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith

6. Attack of the Clones

7. The Phantom Menace

 

I have a lot of nostalgic love for Return of the Jedi that I don't have for any of the prequels, so that pushes it above all of them.

 

Admittedly it's more fun watching the prequels under the "Darth Jar-Jar" camp.

It's Rogue One, and you better see it before it's completely out of theaters!  Star Wars is made for theaters, and this movie is awesome!  Trust me, Kevin Smith himself said it was "Empire good!"

 

Gotta be honest I never heard anybody talk shit about Return of the Jedi until the internet, and it seems like only in the past few years, too.  I don't get it.

[Daos]

[CaptainStarwind]

Her being Luke's daughter would kinda make sense, though.  She lives on a shitty backwoods desert planet, she has a doll of a rebel pilot, has that helmet.  She's good with machines, decent fighter, a decent pilot.  The saber calls to her as it did Anakin and Luke.  The reveal doesn't have to be a big surprise.  And most casual fans aren't going to care if it was "too obvious."  A lot of people walked out of the theater thinking she was Luke's daughter, so a twist to something more annoying and nonsensical probably wouldn't sit well.  The Kenobi thing would be stupid as fuck. 

 

The main problem I have with this is that it seems they're going to make all the main characters be related to somebody important from the Original Trilogy.  Kylo Ren is already known to be Han and Leia's kid.  I also thought I heard J.J. Abrams say that Finn is going to be related to OT characters, too, though admittedly this was nearly a year ago.  If Rei turns out to be related to Luke or Obi-Wan, then the sequel trilogy just becomes the story of the OT character's kids.  It makes it seem like the only people in the universe that matter come from one or a couple bloodlines, which is something that I don't particularly like to see in movies.

 

Really, if she ends up related to the main cast, the only way I would accept it, albeit begrudgingly, is if she was Leia's kid.  That would make the dynamic between her and Kylo Ren a bit more interesting, being that they're siblings, and would remind a lot more of the hardcore fans of Jacen and Jaina Solo from the original expanded universe.

[ben0119]

That girl is a fucking idiot.  I made the mistake of watching part of her "Worst Reasons You Liked Rogue One" video... not going to make the mistake of watching more of her crap.

[ben0119]

The main problem I have with this is that it seems they're going to make all the main characters be related to somebody important from the Original Trilogy.  Kylo Ren is already known to be Han and Leia's kid.  I also thought I heard J.J. Abrams say that Finn is going to be related to OT characters, too, though admittedly this was nearly a year ago.  If Rei turns out to be related to Luke or Obi-Wan, then the sequel trilogy just becomes the story of the OT character's kids.  It makes it seem like the only people in the universe that matter come from one or a couple bloodlines, which is something that I don't particularly like to see in movies.

 

Really, if she ends up related to the main cast, the only way I would accept it, albeit begrudgingly, is if she was Leia's kid.  That would make the dynamic between her and Kylo Ren a bit more interesting, being that they're siblings, and would remind a lot more of the hardcore fans of Jacen and Jaina Solo from the original expanded universe.

I like how you only quoted and responded to the part where I made the Rey Skywalker argument, and ignored the much heavier evidence I brought to Rey being an abandoned orphan.  Yes Kylo Ren is Han and Leia's kid, but he's evil, and I don't see much chance of him being redeemed.  So that means there's no new young Skywalker protagonist and no way to carry on the next generation.  George Lucas's plans for the sequels were going to tell the story of Darth Vader's grandchildren.  He actually told people that if they don't like The Force Awakens, don't blame him, because it appeared to him that Lucasfilm under Disney isn't going to have Star Wars be about that anymore.  Yet, the Expanded Universe told a story about that next generation, and we still have Kylo Ren confirmed, though he's evil.  Lucasfilm under Disney has stated that the Saga films (the episodes) are about the Skywalkers.  That's what they always were, what they always will be.  The whole point of Rogue One and future anthology films was to show us that the entire galaxy doesn't revolve around the Skywalkers.  So if you want stories about other people unrelated to the Skywalkers, that's where you will get your fix... and the new comics and books, I guess.  I have a hard time believing that thing about Finn.  Especially after the information I've gleaned from watching various Star Wars lore videos and reading stuff online.  Apparently, it's explained in some of the new books/comics that the children The First Order abducted were kids of people who worked for the Empire, pretty high quality, people, if I recall.  So they were looking for "good Imperial stock", for lack of a better term.  Given that, it's highly unlikely Finn is related to anyone from the original trilogy, at least not someone with any significant role. 

 

People also kind of want to make everyone related to everyone because that's what Star Wars has done this whole time.  In A New Hope we met Luke and learned he was the son of a powerful Jedi.  Anakin was taught by Obi-wan, betrayed by Vader.  So already we have a lineage there before it was even decided that Vader was actually Luke's son.  Then we learn he's Vader's kid, and so is Leia and they're siblings, and so on.  Then in the Prequels we watched the story of the Obi-wan in his youth, and Luke and Leia's parents.  A major part of Anakin turning to the Dark Side was the fate of his mother, wife, and children.  So, Star Wars, the episodes, anyway, has always been a story of family, mainly the Skywalkers, through the generations.  Though I agree that the fan speculation of making everyone absolutely related to everyone is pretty silly.

 

Hmm, her being Han and Leia's kid is something I hadn't thought about too much.  That could be it.  What is there to read into, though?  The way Han and Leia seem "nice" to her?  And why dump her on the planet?  Once again, if you take the scenes in the movie for what they are and don't overthink them, it makes it obvious that Rey always lived there, and her parents did too, at least long enough to have her and raise her to the age they left her there.  Also, they wouldn't be twins because Kylo Ren is supposed to be in his late 20s or early 30s or something.  He turned on Luke and the New Jedi Order when he was 23, I believe.

 

Thing is, though, if they say Rey is related to no one, which would be all the more impressive, since again, Luke's dad was a Jedi, as humble as his beginnings might have been, it would make it so she really did come from nowhere and may probably ultimately be better for the story, it might piss off a good deal of people invested with Rey being related to someone, most likely Luke.  Rian Johnson has also said he is going with his own vision and isn't doing stuff just to suit fans.  So that gives me hope he won't make stuff happen in the movie just to please people with their theories.  Still, we'll have to see.  Personally, right now, I'm a lot more interested in what the books have hinted at as far as Snoke's origin, which sounds creepy as hell.

 

And stop fucking calling her Rei.

 

Edit - Also, Poe can't be related to anyone from the Original Trilogy, because we already know his parents from the new comics and books and they're new characters.  Not sure why people consider him one of the "main three", though.  He was a cool character but wasn't in the movie nearly enough.  I hope he's featured more in The Last Jedi.

[ben0119]

What this has all taught us?  Star Wars is far more interesting than Hunter x Hunter.  No one can even be bothered to argue about how shitty Hiatus is anymore because it's so boring!

[CaptainStarwind]

stuff

 

I didn't comment on your second block of text because we were talking about Rei being Luke's daughter.  I just picked the relevant stuff.  I also wouldn't have had much to comment on the second part, since I agree that it's likely that she's just an abandoned girl.

 

Like I said before about Finn, I heard that over a year ago at this point.  I could just be misremembering fan speculation for all I know.