It's February 2015 All Over Again

[ben0119]

On 2/24/2020 at 12:55 AM, Daos said:

I agree with everything that man said despite never seeing the show or knowing anything about it other than it involves racing in the future or something.

Wut?

[ben0119]

On 2/22/2020 at 3:22 PM, Sketch said:

They did want the original staff, particularly Tsurumaki the director but he told them to get new blood to come up with their own take on FLCL.

I thought it was because most of the people weren't at the studio anymore.  Either way, this kind of defeats the purpose of making more FLCL.  Even though, as I mentioned, I'm glad some of the concepts and characters from Progressive exist.

[ben0119]

On 2/22/2020 at 8:53 AM, Jman said:

The sooner people realize Toonami is no longer the be-all, end-all for anime in this country the happier they’ll be.

Time in memorial was that this was the only source for non-butchered anime in the US, but those days are over.  The days of thinking On Demand is “sucking ADV’s luscious cock” are gone, replaced with the current abundance of content.

If DeMarco wants to waste his money on FLCL sequels and Junji Ito stories no one will watch, it’s no longer a matter of life and death for the medium.

Oh it is far from being the be-all, and-all.  Hasn't been for a long time.  But it could still be a beacon of sorts, of anime quality and selection.  Surely they can do better than this bullshit they just pulled?

Right, there is an abundance of content.  But that's like people telling me to watch some other wrestling show because I'm disappointed with some of the booking and storylines in WWE, when I'm already watching 7 hours of wrestling a week as it is.  (Also, I have watched AEW, and it is a lot of televised house shows with no-selling, no psychology videogame matches and no storylines, and goofiness like Dark Order and Best Friends, and acting like everyone already knows all their wrestlers as if they have been on TV for 5 years and not giving anyone any backstory or explaining anything.  It sure is not the "good wrestling" alternative to WWE.)  No matter how much you like something, you only want so much of it.  You eventually get tired of it and want to do something else.  There is also the fact of just not having the time.  I guess for myself it is really self-inflicted and self-imposed (like trying to keep my DVR backlog at bay,) since I have plenty of actual free time, but there are still other things I'm into other than anime, that I devote myself to.  But Toonami and before it ASA being such a part of my routine and habit for years ensures I would get at least that much anime per week.  And now I'm going to be getting less and less.  So, I'm going to have to branch out and change up my routine, I suppose.  But I am certainly a creature of habit so that will be difficult to do. 

There's also the fact that you really can't replicate the experience of watching shows live and discussing them.  Even if I were to do the vastly out of character thing of watching anime right as they come out in Japanese that aren't sequels to shows I am already a huge fan of, people will only be discussing them after the fact.  Also, lots of other anime communities out there are garbage.  Social media is not good for discussing shows, either.  And Reddit's layout is atrocious.  And nobody really talks about the shows in the Anime section here.  That "What are you watching" thread is really just a public blog or journal but no one really talks about anything.  Bleh.  Still, it looks like my hand is only continuing to be further forced as Toonami continues to dissipate, as Demarco keeps crap shows like Shippuden and Food Wars and madly focuses on Spruce Gooses like Junge Ito.

Again it is his lack of priorities.  Especially to be wasting money on such things if the block is such a dire state.

[ben0119]

https://ask.fm/Clarknova/answers/158590183145

HAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

[Sketch]

On 3/1/2020 at 1:06 AM, ben0119 said:

It's been a while since I saw the show, and I didn't exactly commit it to memory.  (It wasn't exactly very memorable to begin with.)  But their friendship before the break was not even built up well, if I recall correctly.  The other characters all had episodes focused on them, but Pets didn't.  So we really didn't have any idea of their relationship at all.  Then it's all "WHELP WE AIN'T FRIENDS NO MORE."  And it's like... okay.  So now we're supposed to be upset at this friendship falling apart that was never built up in the first place, and also feel a sense of urgency about repairing it.  Ehh...  And again, the art was generic and the plot was not much to write home about either.  I can't see how anyone would think the show was better than Progressive.  The plant girl was built up the whole show as not being normal, I don't know what you're talking about.  I don't know what you are getting at with being beholden to the original.  Yes there were connections, but with as distant some of them were and with so many characters from the original with not so much as cameos, it makes you think of one of those sequels made to something that is in legal licensing hell that can't use all of the characters and IP.  Oh yeah, that Robotech movie was apparently like that?  Lol.  I haven't watched it yet.  Or when you figure out the Robotech shows aren't really sequels to each other, and it explains the same sort of lack of connections.  So if anything, the showrunners held off quite a lot with that.  Many fans agreed it seemed for the best to leave certain characters and stories alone, and Progressive did that, while still expanding on the original and doing some good world building.  "Hidomi's story was fine."  She was the main character lmao!  Dude just Jinyu existing made the show worth it.

Neither one are as good as the original, but Progressive at least feels more like an FLCL show and part of that universe.  It does interesting stuff with the art, storytelling, and the world.  Alternative is just like a generic slice of life show with generic art, whose plot then goes off the rails after the story and character relationships and development aren't built up properly.

Looks like Poke was able to determine that, if his findings were correct, that is.  They did have a good amount of creative input, as I thought.

If he has accomplished so much then why are the only people who talk about Demarco's involvement in the music industry are him and his co-workers, and fans of Adult Swim and/or Toonami?  I will admit that I am not the most knowledgeable on this subject.  I'm not that into music.  Sure I like music and there are some bands I like, but I don't keep up with it like I used to, and I never bothered to learn the artists' life stories most of the time.  But, I have a friend who is big into music and he never talked about Demarco, I never hear his name brought up on podcasts when music discussion comes up, and the podcast hosts I listen to have diverse taste in music.  Granted these are wrestling podcasts but still, one guy books metal clubs and the others are big into music of various kinds, one guy is obsessed with Poppy and just got to meet her and give her "funeral" speech in Chicago.  I've never heard ANYONE bring up Demarco outside of those I mentioned originally.  No one in the music industry even talks about him.  If I didn't watch Adult Swim/Toonami or ever went on the related forums I would have no idea he exists, much less that he had anything to do with any of these artists or got Run the Jewels together, though I would know who they are, but wouldn't care since I don't like them.  I think he overestimates his own importance, as do fans of Adult Swim and Toonami, it seems.  And no he is no massive music tastemaker, mainly because his music taste is shit.  This is just a small group of hipsters patting each other on the back.

And if Toonami isn't a money hole, then this music shit Demarco does sure is.

So Toonami really has made money this whole time?  Because that is now how it came off at all.

I am sure there is someone that could be found that could do a better job.  There are options, as we discussed.  Demarco is just not what he's cracked up to be anymore.  He is an out of touch dinosaur when he used to be the opposite.  As I said, he and Toonami have become what Toonami was originally fighting against.  He might even be another fallen genius along the likes of George Lucas, Frank Miller, and Vince McMahon.  But if Toonami can't exist without Demarco, as you are implying, and if the recent turn of events and decisions are things we can look forward to in the future, Toonami's death will be quite a slow and pitiful one indeed.

I didn't think Sony buying them changed many things.  I remembered at the time it might make things worse, since Sony is a Japanese company and Japanese companies often make... questionable decisions.  But, you say it has actually bolstered Funimation even more?  And I guess I never really paid attention to Crunchyroll because they're mainly a subs only thing.  But I had always thought Funimation was the biggest player in town.

I mean even when Demarco would talk about shows he likes in posts or on Pre-Flight, when I used to watch that.  All he really knows is the most mainstream stuff.  The only out there thing I can think of hearing from him is the Junge Ito stuff.  And again, he gave great praise to Naruto "one of the greatest shonens ever made."  So yeah.  He is not a tastemaker of anime, either.

I haven't watched a lot of stuff on my own beforehand, but there are plenty of shows that people have suggested that seem like they would have been good on the block, both for ratings and viewer enjoyment, that Demarco either was unable or unwilling to air.  Lots of seemingly obvious perfect candidates they passed on.  It's also the fact of some the stuff they do air.  Toonami is losing shows and slots left and right, but we are going to stick to Food Wars and Shippuden as being stalwarts on the block?!  Talk about priorities!  With so few timeslots, they need to be used wisely, and not wasted on crap!

For one thing, Aiko the planet girl doesn’t show up until episode 3 out of 6. So no she’s not particularly well built up. That episode only shows she’s not the cutesy girl she pretended to be. When it is revealed she’s a countermeasure to Medical Mechanica it’s just like sure whatever.

Progressive was full of memberberries and various moments that aped the original. That is a big criticism for the first episode in particular. And Kanti was there because… people like Kanti.

Jinyu was indeed awesome and makes Prog worth existing if Hidomi’s story didn’t (but it did).

Hidomi’s story about accepting change and finding a reason to live when she basically no longer wanted to exist was compelling enough. Haruko got just about as much focus though and her story was all about going after Atomsk again. Don’t get me started on that other faction that was trying to harness N.O. energy.

Pets got an episode. It was heavily focused on her relationship with Kana though. As I said, it’s a bit subtle but you can notice Pet’s attitude and how Kana’s actions lead to their falling out.

I felt Alt better fits the mold of playing around with the concepts in FLCL but being its own thing. It also offers a character who is largely the opposite of Naota.

Jason doesn’t make the music, how many music producers and talent coordinators do you ever hear about? The ones you do were probably famous performers at some point. You apparently don’t even hear about Run the Jewels in your circle of podcasts and such, they’re not Beyonce or Drake popular but they’re not that obscure either.

They give away a ton of music but I assure you music distribution makes AS money one way or another. And playing the music videos you destain can serve to bolster business relationships if nothing else.

I doubt Toonami always made money. If I had to guess, it probably didn’t until at least mid 2013 if not 2014 when Titan hit or 2015 when DBZ Kai found its stride. Ratings and ad revenue probably piqued in 2015 unless comparatively Super improved upon that.

He’s not introducing anime fans to anime they might not be aware of because it’s all hyped new shounen and sequels for the moment. However, Space Dandy, Parasyte, Dim W, Michiko & Hatchin, Casshern Sins, Deadman, Pop Team Epic, Megalobox and to a lesser extent KILL la KILL, Akame ga Kill, Food Wars, Dr. Stone, Fire Force and The Promised Neverland are fine examples of that (quality of two or three aside). But to his credit Pop Team, Megalobox and Neverland were timely pick-ups in the past two years that shows he’s still capable of finding gems. His more obscure show preferences tend to be 80s and 90s anime though. I would not call Utena and Magical Knight Rayearth mainstream though Utena is considered a seminal classic.

Probably more often unable than unwilling. That’s business for you. Has anyone ever considered that a big reason why hit shows end up on Toonami has to do with the fact that distributors want those shows to air? Especially if the Japanese producers have a say (and they often seem to, at least for Jump shounen). When their library deal with FUNimation ended around probably 2016 with Champloo it became increasingly rare for them to air backlog shows from any distributor. The demand has shifted to “the new hotness” for better or worse.

They realize they cannot get just any show so they are co-producing more unique anime to air the kinds of anime they want. That’s what’s on the horizon. It won’t be the only fresh content though. There’s 10 months left in this year and only one of those six productions will feasibly air this year.

You can bitch about Soma and Naruto till the cows come home but they’re both earning their keep.

Yeah the space is once again quite limited but Is it really in the network’s best interest to have premieres at 3:00 and 3:30? The rest of Adult Swim aside from the really really  obscure stuff doesn’t premiere outside of the 9pm-1am time frame and most only premiere between 11pm and 1am. 2am hour premieres is an oddity that only Toonami maintains and 2am hour premieres are debatably a waste of resources. Even 3 hours of premieres was unthinkable for Adult Swim before Toonami hit its stride in 2013.

Edited March 2, 2020 by Sketch

[OwlChemist81]

I think a 7-show Toonami is fine but rather restrictive, and while you don't want to air top-notch shows at 2 AM (apparently Viz is the only company that's cool with it right now for premieres), losing 2 AM premieres would mean taking prime time slots, and result in a Toonami that ends at 1 AM my time. I guess I would be alright with that, but prime time Toonami butts heads with early-evening Saturday events.

If Toonami can get to 10 or more shows again, I'd like to see them expand to Midnight on weeknights, perhaps with dubs of Crunchyroll originals or something like that. Or maybe such a thing could be the CRUNCHYROLL midnight run? Nah, I think you've got to stick Toonami in there even if it's not on Saturday nights. Crunchyroll Presents Toonami Midnight Run would be cool.

It's getting close to my new weeknight bedtime (11 PM), so that's all I'mma say for now. Might have to record Ballmastrz tonight.

[Jman]

18 hours ago, ben0119 said:

Oh it is far from being the be-all, and-all.  Hasn't been for a long time.  But it could still be a beacon of sorts, of anime quality and selection.  Surely they can do better than this bullshit they just pulled?

Right, there is an abundance of content.  But that's like people telling me to watch some other wrestling show because I'm disappointed with some of the booking and storylines in WWE, when I'm already watching 7 hours of wrestling a week as it is.  (Also, I have watched AEW, and it is a lot of televised house shows with no-selling, no psychology videogame matches and no storylines, and goofiness like Dark Order and Best Friends, and acting like everyone already knows all their wrestlers as if they have been on TV for 5 years and not giving anyone any backstory or explaining anything.  It sure is not the "good wrestling" alternative to WWE.)  No matter how much you like something, you only want so much of it.  You eventually get tired of it and want to do something else.  There is also the fact of just not having the time.  I guess for myself it is really self-inflicted and self-imposed (like trying to keep my DVR backlog at bay,) since I have plenty of actual free time, but there are still other things I'm into other than anime, that I devote myself to.  But Toonami and before it ASA being such a part of my routine and habit for years ensures I would get at least that much anime per week.  And now I'm going to be getting less and less.  So, I'm going to have to branch out and change up my routine, I suppose.  But I am certainly a creature of habit so that will be difficult to do. 

There's also the fact that you really can't replicate the experience of watching shows live and discussing them.  Even if I were to do the vastly out of character thing of watching anime right as they come out in Japanese that aren't sequels to shows I am already a huge fan of, people will only be discussing them after the fact.  Also, lots of other anime communities out there are garbage.  Social media is not good for discussing shows, either.  And Reddit's layout is atrocious.  And nobody really talks about the shows in the Anime section here.  That "What are you watching" thread is really just a public blog or journal but no one really talks about anything.  Bleh.  Still, it looks like my hand is only continuing to be further forced as Toonami continues to dissipate, as Demarco keeps crap shows like Shippuden and Food Wars and madly focuses on Spruce Gooses like Junge Ito.

Again it is his lack of priorities.  Especially to be wasting money on such things if the block is such a dire state.

1.  The original stuff they’re airing hasn’t connected with everyone, and I’m the first to laugh at the FLCL sequels.  But it’s something you cannot get anywhere else and there is value in that.  And let’s be honest, we all have something we like that isn’t super popular that we would spend money on.  In my case, if I had a Netflix budget, I would green light a remake of Armored Trooper VOTOMS.  It’s a good story, but I admit my own bias.  Same with DeMarco trying to push FLCL.

2.   That’s just it.  Most viewers take Marie Kondo’s advice - Does it spark joy?  No?  Then move on.  Wrestling is a big one.  WWE wants to throw so much content that their viewers won’t watch anything else that they’re devoid of context, so they go to the competitor.

3.  Giving people freedom, the ability to watch when they want, is infinitely preferable to any misguided sense of community from live viewing.  It allows people to actually enjoy things they couldn’t otherwise.  Are you telling me that JoJo on Netflix won’t get far more viewers than JoJo’s Toonami airings?

So even if you believe “DeMarco dun goofed”, it’s his block, not an industry.

[brianycpht]

1 hour ago, Jman said:

1.  The original stuff they’re airing hasn’t connected with everyone, and I’m the first to laugh at the FLCL sequels.  But it’s something you cannot get anywhere else and there is value in that.  And let’s be honest, we all have something we like that isn’t super popular that we would spend money on.  In my case, if I had a Netflix budget, I would green light a remake of Armored Trooper VOTOMS.  It’s a good story, but I admit my own bias.  Same with DeMarco trying to push FLCL.

2.   That’s just it.  Most viewers take Marie Kondo’s advice - Does it spark joy?  No?  Then move on.  Wrestling is a big one.  WWE wants to throw so much content that their viewers won’t watch anything else that they’re devoid of context, so they go to the competitor.

3.  Giving people freedom, the ability to watch when they want, is infinitely preferable to any misguided sense of community from live viewing.  It allows people to actually enjoy things they couldn’t otherwise.  Are you telling me that JoJo on Netflix won’t get far more viewers than JoJo’s Toonami airings?

So even if you believe “DeMarco dun goofed”, it’s his block, not an industry.

If Jojo blows up on Netflix, it really does say alot about the trends of modern viewership. The other day, we were walking in the neighborhood and ran into a friend who was a massive Doctor Who fan. She said she hasn't watched the most recent season because its not on Netflix yet (or whatever site it would be on since no season of it is on there). 

The issue I see lately, and I'm guilty of this too, is that we want our Toonami to be the place we remember. The place where we would turn the TV on a Saturday night and watch the PREMEIRE of a show that we didn't know about before. There was no simulcasts, if the show was dubbed before- DVDs were 25.00 for 3 episodes, and you had to be there when it aired. But we've all evolved in our fandom and anime isn't restricted to TV and bootleg fansubs. If you go and ask what the purpose of the block is today I've come up with a few things

1. Nostalgia for viewers like us. It's comfortable to have these show presented to us by TOM surrounded by all the goodies. We are a loyal passionate audience to say the least, but the audience that has a connection to the original block is aging out of the 18-34 demo little by little every year. They will have to think about how and if they want to market Toonami to a new generation who doesn't want to watch TV or do they shift to targeting the older demographic still. 

2. Promotion. I still think anime distributors love to see their shows on the block because it drums up awareness for their shows. In the end, they want to sell you merchandise from these shows and Toonami is one way to get it out there. I will say though that companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll would love to steal you away from your Toonami viewing and bring you to their sites instead. Why else would Funimation force Toonami to wait an additional week for MHA ? CR put ads online telling you to come to their site to watch ALL of the episodes of a show currently airing on the block. I'm worried this is what Warner will do with Toonami- use it as a tool to promote a show already on CR. Companies like Viz and Aniplex are still about the sellling of physical media after broadcast, but we are starting to see Toonami being used as a means  to introduce a show to an audience that they will finish it on streaming.

I don't understand why people are demanding they air shows that are already available for free dubbed online. I've already seen a few people hoping the CR originals eventually end up on the block. For what purpose would that serve other than to drive traffic to CR? I don't think we necessarily need the block to inform the masses about anime and it should shift to airing originals that air there first.

 

[Sketch]

5 hours ago, Jman said:

1.  The original stuff they’re airing hasn’t connected with everyone, and I’m the first to laugh at the FLCL sequels.  But it’s something you cannot get anywhere else and there is value in that.  And let’s be honest, we all have something we like that isn’t super popular that we would spend money on.  In my case, if I had a Netflix budget, I would green light a remake of Armored Trooper VOTOMS.  It’s a good story, but I admit my own bias.  Same with DeMarco trying to push FLCL.

2.   That’s just it.  Most viewers take Marie Kondo’s advice - Does it spark joy?  No?  Then move on.  Wrestling is a big one.  WWE wants to throw so much content that their viewers won’t watch anything else that they’re devoid of context, so they go to the competitor.

3.  Giving people freedom, the ability to watch when they want, is infinitely preferable to any misguided sense of community from live viewing.  It allows people to actually enjoy things they couldn’t otherwise.  Are you telling me that JoJo on Netflix won’t get far more viewers than JoJo’s Toonami airings?

So even if you believe “DeMarco dun goofed”, it’s his block, not an industry.

Stardust was averaging around 600,000 for a decent chunk of its first half and gradually sank to around 400,000 by the time the battle of Egypt ended and that's only counting the live and same day ratings not DVR, on-demand, etc. I honestly don't think any one episode of Stardust will be streamed by more than 600,000 people on Netflix except maybe the first one. Relatively few anime that stream on Netflix break the 300,000 per episode threshold on any streaming service including Netflix.  Series like MHA and Dragon Ball Super certainly did and the first season of Attack on Titan probably did (dunno about other seasons). 

That said, any show on Netflix that gets promoted on the front page should at least have the capacity to be noticed more than anything on Toonami that isn't MHA or Dragon Ball.

[Jman]

7 hours ago, brianycpht said:

If Jojo blows up on Netflix, it really does say alot about the trends of modern viewership. The other day, we were walking in the neighborhood and ran into a friend who was a massive Doctor Who fan. She said she hasn't watched the most recent season because its not on Netflix yet (or whatever site it would be on since no season of it is on there). 

The issue I see lately, and I'm guilty of this too, is that we want our Toonami to be the place we remember. The place where we would turn the TV on a Saturday night and watch the PREMEIRE of a show that we didn't know about before. There was no simulcasts, if the show was dubbed before- DVDs were 25.00 for 3 episodes, and you had to be there when it aired. But we've all evolved in our fandom and anime isn't restricted to TV and bootleg fansubs. If you go and ask what the purpose of the block is today I've come up with a few things

1. Nostalgia for viewers like us. It's comfortable to have these show presented to us by TOM surrounded by all the goodies. We are a loyal passionate audience to say the least, but the audience that has a connection to the original block is aging out of the 18-34 demo little by little every year. They will have to think about how and if they want to market Toonami to a new generation who doesn't want to watch TV or do they shift to targeting the older demographic still. 

2. Promotion. I still think anime distributors love to see their shows on the block because it drums up awareness for their shows. In the end, they want to sell you merchandise from these shows and Toonami is one way to get it out there. I will say though that companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll would love to steal you away from your Toonami viewing and bring you to their sites instead. Why else would Funimation force Toonami to wait an additional week for MHA ? CR put ads online telling you to come to their site to watch ALL of the episodes of a show currently airing on the block. I'm worried this is what Warner will do with Toonami- use it as a tool to promote a show already on CR. Companies like Viz and Aniplex are still about the sellling of physical media after broadcast, but we are starting to see Toonami being used as a means  to introduce a show to an audience that they will finish it on streaming.

I don't understand why people are demanding they air shows that are already available for free dubbed online. I've already seen a few people hoping the CR originals eventually end up on the block. For what purpose would that serve other than to drive traffic to CR? I don't think we necessarily need the block to inform the masses about anime and it should shift to airing originals that air there first.

 

The question ends up being “Do you want Toonami to promote the shows or do you want the shows to promote Toonami?”  Back in the day they worked in harmony.  Nowadays it’s a lot more complex.  I would argue the people that want the CR originals (Well, Tower Of God, God of High School and Shield Hero anyway) on Toonami want the latter.  The people who want more exclusive stuff not beholden to streamers want the former.

The Toonami audience from back in the day is getting older.  I’ve said it before, but that’s part of why it’s nowhere near as toxic as the old ASMB days.  We grew up, got jobs, started relationships, watched our niche hobby expand in such a way that we aren’t reliant on DeMarco as its sole tastemaker, etc.  That importance can never be diminished, but as things change, its use will be...questioned.

I still wonder if the endgame when HBO MAX launches is for WarnerMedia to align all its anime and non-DC, non Looney Tunes animation under the Crunchyroll umbrella.  Crunchyroll presents Toonami may be the block’s future, in which Toonami remains a gateway of original shows and licensed acquisitions designed to lead people into the CR ecosystem.  It will serve the same purpose as a gateway, just in a different way.

[OwlChemist81]

On 3/2/2020 at 12:38 AM, brianycpht said:

If Jojo blows up on Netflix, it really does say alot about the trends of modern viewership. The other day, we were walking in the neighborhood and ran into a friend who was a massive Doctor Who fan. She said she hasn't watched the most recent season because its not on Netflix yet (or whatever site it would be on since no season of it is on there). 

The issue I see lately, and I'm guilty of this too, is that we want our Toonami to be the place we remember. The place where we would turn the TV on a Saturday night and watch the PREMEIRE of a show that we didn't know about before. There was no simulcasts, if the show was dubbed before- DVDs were 25.00 for 3 episodes, and you had to be there when it aired. But we've all evolved in our fandom and anime isn't restricted to TV and bootleg fansubs. If you go and ask what the purpose of the block is today I've come up with a few things

1. Nostalgia for viewers like us. It's comfortable to have these show presented to us by TOM surrounded by all the goodies. We are a loyal passionate audience to say the least, but the audience that has a connection to the original block is aging out of the 18-34 demo little by little every year. They will have to think about how and if they want to market Toonami to a new generation who doesn't want to watch TV or do they shift to targeting the older demographic still. 

2. Promotion. I still think anime distributors love to see their shows on the block because it drums up awareness for their shows. In the end, they want to sell you merchandise from these shows and Toonami is one way to get it out there. I will say though that companies like Funimation and Crunchyroll would love to steal you away from your Toonami viewing and bring you to their sites instead. Why else would Funimation force Toonami to wait an additional week for MHA ? CR put ads online telling you to come to their site to watch ALL of the episodes of a show currently airing on the block. I'm worried this is what Warner will do with Toonami- use it as a tool to promote a show already on CR. Companies like Viz and Aniplex are still about the sellling of physical media after broadcast, but we are starting to see Toonami being used as a means  to introduce a show to an audience that they will finish it on streaming.

I don't understand why people are demanding they air shows that are already available for free dubbed online. I've already seen a few people hoping the CR originals eventually end up on the block. For what purpose would that serve other than to drive traffic to CR? I don't think we necessarily need the block to inform the masses about anime and it should shift to airing originals that air there first.

 

Do we even know at this point for sure that the dubbed versions of CR originals will be posted online?? It seems to me CR specializes in subtitles anime with less dubbed shows. Sure there are outliers like Mob Psycho 100, but those seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

Toonami has 3 slots opening up this spring when MHA, SAOAWOU, and Demon Slayer end. For one of those to be a CR original just seems academic to me. Toonami could also lose one slot, I guess, but it sure ain't losing 2.

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by OwlChemist81

[ben0119]

On 3/1/2020 at 7:43 AM, Sketch said:

For one thing, Aiko the planet girl doesn’t show up until episode 3 out of 6. So no she’s not particularly well built up. That episode only shows she’s not the cutesy girl she pretended to be. When it is revealed she’s a countermeasure to Medical Mechanica it’s just like sure whatever.

Progressive was full of memberberries and various moments that aped the original. That is a big criticism for the first episode in particular. And Kanti was there because… people like Kanti.

Jinyu was indeed awesome and makes Prog worth existing if Hidomi’s story didn’t (but it did).

Hidomi’s story about accepting change and finding a reason to live when she basically no longer wanted to exist was compelling enough. Haruko got just about as much focus though and her story was all about going after Atomsk again. Don’t get me started on that other faction that was trying to harness N.O. energy.

Pets got an episode. It was heavily focused on her relationship with Kana though. As I said, it’s a bit subtle but you can notice Pet’s attitude and how Kana’s actions lead to their falling out.

I felt Alt better fits the mold of playing around with the concepts in FLCL but being its own thing. It also offers a character who is largely the opposite of Naota.

Jason doesn’t make the music, how many music producers and talent coordinators do you ever hear about? The ones you do were probably famous performers at some point. You apparently don’t even hear about Run the Jewels in your circle of podcasts and such, they’re not Beyonce or Drake popular but they’re not that obscure either.

They give away a ton of music but I assure you music distribution makes AS money one way or another. And playing the music videos you destain can serve to bolster business relationships if nothing else.

I doubt Toonami always made money. If I had to guess, it probably didn’t until at least mid 2013 if not 2014 when Titan hit or 2015 when DBZ Kai found its stride. Ratings and ad revenue probably piqued in 2015 unless comparatively Super improved upon that.

He’s not introducing anime fans to anime they might not be aware of because it’s all hyped new shounen and sequels for the moment. However, Space Dandy, Parasyte, Dim W, Michiko & Hatchin, Casshern Sins, Deadman, Pop Team Epic, Megalobox and to a lesser extent KILL la KILL, Akame ga Kill, Food Wars, Dr. Stone, Fire Force and The Promised Neverland are fine examples of that (quality of two or three aside). But to his credit Pop Team, Megalobox and Neverland were timely pick-ups in the past two years that shows he’s still capable of finding gems. His more obscure show preferences tend to be 80s and 90s anime though. I would not call Utena and Magical Knight Rayearth mainstream though Utena is considered a seminal classic.

Probably more often unable than unwilling. That’s business for you. Has anyone ever considered that a big reason why hit shows end up on Toonami has to do with the fact that distributors want those shows to air? Especially if the Japanese producers have a say (and they often seem to, at least for Jump shounen). When their library deal with FUNimation ended around probably 2016 with Champloo it became increasingly rare for them to air backlog shows from any distributor. The demand has shifted to “the new hotness” for better or worse.

They realize they cannot get just any show so they are co-producing more unique anime to air the kinds of anime they want. That’s what’s on the horizon. It won’t be the only fresh content though. There’s 10 months left in this year and only one of those six productions will feasibly air this year.

You can bitch about Soma and Naruto till the cows come home but they’re both earning their keep.

Yeah the space is once again quite limited but Is it really in the network’s best interest to have premieres at 3:00 and 3:30? The rest of Adult Swim aside from the really really  obscure stuff doesn’t premiere outside of the 9pm-1am time frame and most only premiere between 11pm and 1am. 2am hour premieres is an oddity that only Toonami maintains and 2am hour premieres are debatably a waste of resources. Even 3 hours of premieres was unthinkable for Adult Swim before Toonami hit its stride in 2013.

Man, I had to look up on the wikia because I could not remember the names of all these characters and things.  And apparently Masarao was her father and not her brother.  That isn't made clear what their relationship is for the longest time in the show.  But she lived in the same house as Masarao and that old guy from that Bureau of Interstellar Immigration, and that plant she ends up taking ends up not just being a plant.  We knew unusual things were going on in that house, so it's not surprising that Aiko herself would be unusual.  The show portrayed as if she is the only "normal" one there and unaware of what was going on, but obviously only the latter part ended up being true.  I don't know that I'd really consider that an asspull.

Maybe so but again I still feel like they laid off a bit.  I feel like a lot of fans would've wanted even more connections.  If anything I can see that more being the complaint, than the show mostly being its own thing.  It is like a sequel/spin-off, so I think the amount of connections and references is about right.

And I liked how we kept seeing different dream sequences from Hidomi every episode, usually in some crazy art style. I say again, but the way the show was done, was almost like each episode was it's own artistic short film, whereas Alternative was just generic as fuck with the art.  Maybe being an artist myself, I appreciate that more, but I feel like the art itself is a major consideration for anime.  And the mood and atmosphere is really affected by it, which was done to great effect in Progressive.  Alternative felt like you could have been watching any run-of-the-mill modern anime.  I expect better than that from FLCL.

I liked that Progressive showed Haruko in her true cunt form lol.  We could see in the original series she was kind of a selfish asshole, but this is put on full unfiltered display in Progressive.  In Alternative she acts like a friendly mentor to the girls.  I suppose Haruko could have mellowed out over the years, but eh.  Though I don't know when the two new series take place in relationship to each other, and they might just be canon to the original series, but not each other, I don't know.

Did you mean it wasn't focused on their relationship?  Because I don't remember an episode that was.  The point is, you don't really get a good idea of their friendship in the first place, so how can you be upset when it falls apart?  It's the same problem as Naruto and Sasuke.  Their relationship comes off as two co-workers that were friendly with each other and then Naruto loses his shit when Sasuke transfers to another location and Naruto comes off as insane, or having a romantic attraction, for him to be acting that way.  Then the show has 3 whole "FRIENDSHIP" moments it keeps pointing back to as "proof," and also the characters saying they are each other's best friends.  So even with the whole thing of Pets being upset with Kana's behavior towards their group of friends, their own friendship is never built up the in the first place.  That's the problem.

I never really thought about if Hidomi and Kana were supposed to be alike or different from Naota.  They are just new characters.  The similarity would be coming of age story and that's about it.  I don't remember Naota ever acting anti-social, emo, and suicidal like Hidomi.  Alternative really just feels like an average-ish slice of series with some sci-fi elements that happen to come from FLCL.

Run the Jewels were on Austin City Limits, and I remember seeing them on there.  Not that I watch the show, but I watch/record some shows on PBS like Nature and NOVA, and so I would see promotions for the show, or the TV gets left on that channel and Austin City Limits comes on etc.  I'm sure they have made other appearances too.  They are a fairly well-known group and I don't even like rap much in general.  But I never would have heard of Demarco if not for being a Toonami fan.  Demarco would be in theory one of those people you would hear about if the group's story was told, or if VH1 Behind the Music was still around.  Well, I guess only someone who was a fan of the group would seek these things out, but still.  I'm pretty sure these kinds of people have been talked about generally in regard to other musicians, but you never hear Demarco come up, not matter how much he clings to that mention in the article on his Twitter.

Isn't their whole thing that they put a spotlight on the these starving artist musicians?  I doubt they charge these musicians, much, if at all, to work with them.  What do you suppose they charge someone put their music video on Toonami?  So how the hell are they making money on it exactly?

Then that thing Demarco talked about with Toonami being an efficient money maker for the network must be fairly recent development, or at least how you described.

Dimension W was not good, though.  Good god, what if they are co-funding a "faithful to the manga" re-telling of it?  I mean I can't imagine that story being much better even if it was less rushed than it apparently was in the anime.  Also I think Deadmand Wonderland had a decent following.  They were begged endlessly to re-air it and eventually did.  Though maybe it wasn't as popular before Toonami aired it, I don't know.  I know it didn't do well in Japan, which is why more seasons didn't get made, right?  To a lesser extent?  I think you mean no extent.  All of those shows were well-known and hyped before Toonami aired them.  Pop Team Epic, a gem?  Really, dude?  I mean it could be kind of funny at times, but come on.  And that also to start off their NON-ACTION selection so they got the most out there thing they could find.  And now the successor, Food Wars.  Truly we would all be culturally incomplete as anime fans without having seen Food Wars ever in our lives.  See that is the thing.  The fact Demarco's only obscure shows he knows are old are from his youth proves he is out of touch, and only keeps up with the basic bitch modern anime.  That doesn't help his case at all.  I mean those three series are all widely talked about and well-known, I wouldn't call them that obscure, either.  Then again the American anime fandom would have been smaller years ago, but still.  They were still known among many if not most anime fans.  I wouldn't say obscure.

I thought it was Toei, not Jump.  And yes the distributors want them to air, even still, there are some big shows who are conspicuous by their absence that Toonami has not aired.  Well it was always said that the reason Toonami was able to get more new shows was because they didn't concentrate on keeping a library of shows to rerun like ASA did.  As it is, keeping shows to rerun probably makes even less sense in the modern ecosystem.

The thing is those shows also have to be something the viewers want.  Are most people really going to care about most of these original shows?  I guess if they don't care about having another money sink, it's fine, but it seems like a major lack of priorities to me.  It certainly is not going to "save" Toonami, that's for sure.  Well I hope so.  As it is, I hope some good stuff is coming down the pipe to make up for what we lost.  I know that won't be the intention behind it, but still.

Well that is depressing to hear.

I mean they also lost a time slot in the front just now.  Well Adult Swim is a night time block for night owls.  I am a night owl and in central time zone so maybe that is why the late premieres don't bother me as much.  So I really don't get people complaining about shows coming on too late on Toonami and Adult Swim.  It also seemed like anime fans would be more willing to stay up for stuff, due to how religious they can be with watching and following things, and how getting to see anime was such a rarity for a time, you appreciated how much Toonami could give you.  Obviously the latter is not really a thing anymore.  But, if the ratings aren't there for the later premieres, maybe it doesn't make sense to keep them, but that is not the excuse Demarco gave for getting rid of them. =P

[ben0119]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:55 AM, Sketch said:

Stardust was averaging around 600,000 for a decent chunk of its first half and gradually sank to around 400,000 by the time the battle of Egypt ended and that's only counting the live and same day ratings not DVR, on-demand, etc. I honestly don't think any one episode of Stardust will be streamed by more than 600,000 people on Netflix except maybe the first one. Relatively few anime that stream on Netflix break the 300,000 per episode threshold on any streaming service including Netflix.  Series like MHA and Dragon Ball Super certainly did and the first season of Attack on Titan probably did (dunno about other seasons). 

That said, any show on Netflix that gets promoted on the front page should at least have the capacity to be noticed more than anything on Toonami that isn't MHA or Dragon Ball.

Weren't there some anime that were the top shows on Hulu a few years ago?

[ben0119]

On 3/1/2020 at 10:50 PM, Jman said:

1.  The original stuff they’re airing hasn’t connected with everyone, and I’m the first to laugh at the FLCL sequels.  But it’s something you cannot get anywhere else and there is value in that.  And let’s be honest, we all have something we like that isn’t super popular that we would spend money on.  In my case, if I had a Netflix budget, I would green light a remake of Armored Trooper VOTOMS.  It’s a good story, but I admit my own bias.  Same with DeMarco trying to push FLCL.

2.   That’s just it.  Most viewers take Marie Kondo’s advice - Does it spark joy?  No?  Then move on.  Wrestling is a big one.  WWE wants to throw so much content that their viewers won’t watch anything else that they’re devoid of context, so they go to the competitor.

3.  Giving people freedom, the ability to watch when they want, is infinitely preferable to any misguided sense of community from live viewing.  It allows people to actually enjoy things they couldn’t otherwise.  Are you telling me that JoJo on Netflix won’t get far more viewers than JoJo’s Toonami airings?

So even if you believe “DeMarco dun goofed”, it’s his block, not an industry.

1. I don't think they have managed to stir much of anything.  IGPX was a failure and FLCL and Samurai Jack were proven properties, so nothing too "original" there.  So if they got people talking, or watching, it wasn't based on a new idea.  Right, but is it really a good idea to be spending money on this stuff with no return, when they should be doing everything they can to ensure the survival and continued existence of the block?  It's pure madness.

2. The person you just mentioned, I had to look up, is an organization expert.  Ok.  I'm sorry but I did not follow your last sentence.  You mean that WWE is trying to oversaturate the market to the extent that no one has time for anything else, and it's intentional?  I never thought about it like that, but the market is already oversaturated, even without WWE adding to it.  And more wrestling feds keep being formed and getting TV deals and streaming deals etc, with no demand for it.  Wrestling has only gotten less and less popular over the years, and there certainly is no "wrestling boom" now.  And as I said I've also watched other feds and wasn't too impressed.  But I'm not going to stop watching something I've been religiously watching since the 90s.  There are still some wrestlers I am a fan of, too.  Wrestling also has a good community, like Toonami, that I enjoy participating in.  Of course some of the fans are awful, but fans of certain sci-fi franchises make the worst wrestling fans seem like saints.  Anyway, watching other anime outside of the block, which I definitely plan to do when I make the time for it, doesn't replace the Toonami experience.

3. I don't think it's a misguided sense of community.  I enjoy the community.  But I'm not saying people shouldn't be able to have their on-demand experience.  Just that it doesn't offer the same experience, and never will.  Besides the community aspect, you are never going to organically stumble upon something on streaming as you would on regular TV.  You're just going to seek out what you like and watch more of it.  How many times does anyone really watch something on a streaming service they didn't expect to watch or weren't planning to watch, or was outside what they would normally watch?  And for my part, the original series on Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc have not interested me AT ALL.  I just go there for their libraries.  Now, I watch Mandalorian and Clone Wars, but those are Star Wars, something that I already like...  Hell, you could also stumble upon things at the video store shelf and go "hey that looks interesting," which doesn't compare at all to the smaller screen, rather, viewing area, and sample size, you'll see on a streaming service.  It just isn't the same.  I don't really know.  Netflix has more viewers, but how many of those viewers are watching the anime on Netflix?  I know people have also complained about Netflix because they get shows and then sit on them.  Did they ever dub the rest of Seven Deadly Sins?

Right it is his block, but his misplaced sense of priorities could end up being its peril.  Unless he thinks these originals will be Toonami going out with a blaze or glory.  But dude, the originals better be better than what they have put out so far, if that is what he has in mind.

[ben0119]

On 3/2/2020 at 8:27 AM, Jman said:

The question ends up being “Do you want Toonami to promote the shows or do you want the shows to promote Toonami?”  Back in the day they worked in harmony.  Nowadays it’s a lot more complex.  I would argue the people that want the CR originals (Well, Tower Of God, God of High School and Shield Hero anyway) on Toonami want the latter.  The people who want more exclusive stuff not beholden to streamers want the former.

The Toonami audience from back in the day is getting older.  I’ve said it before, but that’s part of why it’s nowhere near as toxic as the old ASMB days.  We grew up, got jobs, started relationships, watched our niche hobby expand in such a way that we aren’t reliant on DeMarco as its sole tastemaker, etc.  That importance can never be diminished, but as things change, its use will be...questioned.

I still wonder if the endgame when HBO MAX launches is for WarnerMedia to align all its anime and non-DC, non Looney Tunes animation under the Crunchyroll umbrella.  Crunchyroll presents Toonami may be the block’s future, in which Toonami remains a gateway of original shows and licensed acquisitions designed to lead people into the CR ecosystem.  It will serve the same purpose as a gateway, just in a different way.

Shield Hero is a Crunchyroll original?  Well that is probably why it hasn't showed up on Toonami then.  Why has no one ever brought that up?

Do you mean as a TV block?  Because I can't really see the purpose of Toonami branding on a streaming service.  But if you mean for it as a TV block designed to get people to watch Crunchyroll, Toonami would basically just end up being the instrument of its own demise.  Though I guess people would still have to pay extra money for Crunchyroll, but still.

[OwlChemist81]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the coronavirus could possibly screw up Toonami getting a new show to replace the shows that are leaving.. 

[MasqueradeOverture]

11 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the coronavirus could possibly screw up Toonami getting a new show to replace the shows that are leaving.. 

Man I wanna see some old school cel painted stuff show up.

Throw on Escaflowne or something. That shit still looks crisp.

[PokeNirvash]

'90s isekai with female main characters are the best isekai. It's just one of the reasons Inuyasha had such staying power on [as]!

Edited March 14, 2020 by PokeNirvash

[The1gairon]

12 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the coronavirus could possibly screw up Toonami getting a new show to replace the shows that are leaving.. 

How?

Unless it means less people on the production committee are available to make the deals.

I mean last night's Pre-Flight was a rerun of the week before's. That should probably tell you everything.

Edited March 14, 2020 by elfie

[Jman]

2 hours ago, PokeNirvash said:

'90s isekai with female main characters are the best isekai. It's just one of the reasons Inuyasha had such staying power on [as]!

Well if Netflix isn’t going to remake Rayearth someone might as well get the original.