Toonami tries too hard

[Guest The Hound]

You guys really ought let these threads he makes just sink to the bottom.

 

You don't gotta reply.

 

I know it's hard not to, but just humor me and ignore him.

 

5 pages of replies, he sure managed to get you guys riled up.

 

This is what the troll does, they don't state anything factual or even put together ideas they believe in. They pick out the things you like/dislike and have opinionated views on, then shit on them and let the other people do the fighting.

[Guest The Hound]

Why do you or anyone else respond to Zeni seriously?  You know he is just doing this for the lulz, right?

 

I mean, this post would be admirable, if it were addressed to practically anyone else.  You'd be better off just ignoring Zeni or acting goofy along with him.

 

I kinda need to quote this for the truth.

 

Listen to him guys.

[Top Gun]

I can, but you apparently can't conceive of the possibility of someone thinking something is good by critical standards, even if it might have some flaws - yes, even something that you, O Arbiter of Anime, Top_Gun, think is bad.  Objectivity does not exist.  Quality is a matter of opinion.  There is no "authoritative correct view" on anything, when it comes to quality of entertainment and art.

No I freely acknowledge that there a metric shit-ton of bad critics out there. :3

 

Seriously though ben, your ability to put entirely too much effort into reading people while being totally off-base with your conclusions is commendable, but at the end of the day you still don't really get what I'm going for here.  Hell, maybe the communication error is on my end.  But  do yourself the favor of not getting worked up over a caricature that only exists in your own mind.

[ben0119]

No I freely acknowledge that there a metric shit-ton of bad critics out there. :3

 

Seriously though ben, your ability to put entirely too much effort into reading people while being totally off-base with your conclusions is commendable, but at the end of the day you still don't really get what I'm going for here.  Hell, maybe the communication error is on my end.  But  do yourself the favor of not getting worked up over a caricature that only exists in your own mind.

Sorry but there are no "bad critics", only critics you don't agree with, whose taste you don't share.  Well, some are straight up bad, but that's not the same as just disagreeing with a critic who actually is good at his or her job.  I think you know what I mean, here.  Only a Sith thinks in absolutes.

 

Perhaps it is only a caricature that I concocted in my mind, but you are not doing much to dispel it, with the lies, misinformation, slander, discontent, and enmity you are spreading.

[CaptainStarwind]

Lively, and it's obvious they're going to add a slot or two for more finite series.  They aren't going to pass up on shows, especially big ones, just because there "isn't any room."  The long-runners they have now have loyal audiences, so no sense in removing them, and the block is growing, justifying its expansion by legitimately needing more room for more shows, and the shows they already have are doing well.  Like Demarco said, "Toonami can expand as needed."  So, I wouldn't get too worried, even with all the long-runners we have right now.

 

I still feel as though the only reason we got 11:30 back was for Super, and that we need something of the caliber to get slots.  I'd love to be proven wrong, however, so let's hope I am.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but Toonami has been feeling a bit different ever since the block lost 3 hours.  Perhaps it's just because there isn't as many shows coming in now (even if the shows were just whatever Adult Swim owned).  Maybe it's because Toonami's been getting more bigger name shows since then.  Hell, maybe it's because FMAB isn't on Toonami anymore (as weird as it sounds saying it, considering how much I begged for it to be taken off).  I'm not sure what it is.  If Toonami does manage to pick up more hours, I'd like to see one slot devoted to classic shows (older pickups from Toonami and ASA), or at least some of the stuff Adult Swim still holds.  I'd love to see another Toonami run of IGPX or Space Dandy, the latter in particular, since Season 2 never got a full rerun.  Does anyone else have that feeling?

 

[Admin]

Trying is good.  they've been pretty consistently successful since their being resurrected on AS.

 

though reading your post, I can sort of see the downside to trying too hard.

 

 

 

[Sketch]

I still feel as though the only reason we got 11:30 back was for Super, and that we need something of the caliber to get slots.  I'd love to be proven wrong, however, so let's hope I am.

 

Perhaps it's just me, but Toonami has been feeling a bit different ever since the block lost 3 hours.  Perhaps it's just because there isn't as many shows coming in now (even if the shows were just whatever Adult Swim owned).  Maybe it's because Toonami's been getting more bigger name shows since then.  Hell, maybe it's because FMAB isn't on Toonami anymore (as weird as it sounds saying it, considering how much I begged for it to be taken off).  I'm not sure what it is.  If Toonami does manage to pick up more hours, I'd like to see one slot devoted to classic shows (older pickups from Toonami and ASA), or at least some of the stuff Adult Swim still holds.  I'd love to see another Toonami run of IGPX or Space Dandy, the latter in particular, since Season 2 never got a full rerun.  Does anyone else have that feeling?

 

Definitely. 11:30 wasn't coming back for just anything but now I'm pretty convinced they'll shoot for 11pm with Samurai Jack and the potential for Attack on Titan premieres to carry the slot after that. I don't know if it would be sustainable after Titan ends but they ought to be able to.

 

Bigger names and really only big names at this point though it may not remain that way it does seem to be the direction everything is heading in. I guess when you have the resources to get the biggest shows you don't seek out the diamonds in the rough very much.

[Bookend47]

Do you guys think that people are just being nostalgic when saying things like that? Of course NuToonami didn't come into its own until 2014 starting with Space Dandy but I think that the block today isn't different from the one in 2013. There were, at least before Jojo and the DBZrama, the same number of long-runners, two short shows and a lot of reruns, which got cut down to one now. Sure there was definitely much more variety which made the block fresh every week but as the newness worn off and the block got cut fans probably don't see that it's still the same Toonami.

 

Adding two more long-runners to Toonami in 2016 was a experiment that didn't work out as well as having mostly short semi-popular shows in 2015 and it was worrying at the time HxH was added but on the brightside ratings haven't regressed to when Toonami first restarted.

[Top Gun]

Perhaps it is only a caricature that I concocted in my mind, but you are not doing much to dispel it, with the lies, misinformation, slander, discontent, and enmity you are spreading.

...oh man.  I've been trying for ages to think of what you sound like whenever you do one of these ridiculous little screeds, and I've finally got it: you're literally the lawyer Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld.  You are a TV character, ben.

[CaptainStarwind]

Bigger names and really only big names at this point though it may not remain that way it does seem to be the direction everything is heading in. I guess when you have the resources to get the biggest shows you don't seek out the diamonds in the rough very much.

 

Perhaps that's it, then.  I always enjoyed when Toonami would get a low key pickups, and arguably that last one of those that we got was Michiko & Hatchin.  While I am glad that Toonami has the resources to be able to pick up big name shows, I still wish for some of those pickups again.

[PokeNirvash]

I'd argue that Dimension W was low key. Nobody was beckoning for it save for someone on 4chan who claimed it being picked up would only make sense.

[Bookend47]

I should specify that I understand the vibe of it feeling like the early magic of Toonami is a bit absent with all these really popular shows. I was just pointing out the similarity when comparing the first 4 hours of the past and present Toonami, which I'm sure others have pointed out before.

[Safe_Space]

Yeah, Top_Gun is good at making people feel bad.  He likes to sneer and scoff from his ivory tower.  He's a card carrying member of the Otaku Ultra Elite, a gatekeeper that stops plebeians from entering his fandom and makes sure they know they are liking and disliking the wrong anime, and that they should feel bad for it.

 

The guy described in this video is a good example of one of Top_Gun's ilk -

 

Never been on the right foot with him.  Don't like his attitude, how he carries himself, how he interacts with others, his disposition, don't care for him in general.  I try to get along with him, but then he has to go and be a smug snob.

 

Anyway, IGPX isn't bad, per se... it's just got problems, obviously, since it was made by people who never wrote or made anything before... not full-on stories, anyway.  It's a slice of life sports mecha anime.  Yeah, not what people were expecting, and certainly doesn't live up to being THE FIRST TOONAMI ORIGINAL.  I actually have issues paying attention to it, and that almost never happens with me.  But, I can't say I hate it.  It's an okay show, and I can see why people like it.  The soundtrack, character designs, animation, art, action sequences... done pretty well.  Where it's weak is the characters and writing.  But, it's not too bad there.  It's alright.

 

*pats ben on shoulder*

hey ben i'm here for you

 

when ever u need me bae

[ben0119]

Perhaps that's it, then.  I always enjoyed when Toonami would get a low key pickups, and arguably that last one of those that we got was Michiko & Hatchin.  While I am glad that Toonami has the resources to be able to pick up big name shows, I still wish for some of those pickups again.

Don't forget Michiko, Champloo (a rerun same thing basically as a "low key pickup", and Children Who Chase Lost Voices).  I don't think Toonami is above picking up the odd dark horse sleeper show now and again.  But they aren't going to do it at the expense of running a heavily demanded AAA show.  But, maybe if we can get some extra slots, it could happen.  But they'd have to be later... either right before Shippuden/One Piece... problem is, those two shows and Hunter x Hunter are settled in with audiences where they are, and 3 would be too late for a premiere, even a low key one.  I just don't see them running a "low key" show in the earlier higher value slots.  But yeah, that's pretty much the thing that's different.

[ben0119]

*pats ben on shoulder*

hey ben i'm here for you

 

when ever u need me bae

You're not Gman.

[ben0119]

I'd argue that Dimension W was low key. Nobody was beckoning for it save for someone on 4chan who claimed it being picked up would only make sense.

But it was rumored by many as a possible pick-up.  I actually threw it out there that getting Champloo screwed us out of Dimension W.  >_>' But I never thought the show would end up being so bad!  Simuldub... was not worth it.  Funi definitely unloaded that one.

[ben0119]

...oh man.  I've been trying for ages to think of what you sound like whenever you do one of these ridiculous little screeds, and I've finally got it: you're literally the lawyer Jackie Chiles from Seinfeld.  You are a TV character, ben.

That guy was just a parody of Johnny Cochrane, and I don't speak or act the least bit like that.  My friends actually say that Napoleon Dynamite is a ripoff my life and personality. Only difference is I have straight hair. 

[CaptainStarwind]

Don't forget Michiko, Champloo (a rerun same thing basically as a "low key pickup", and Children Who Chase Lost Voices).  I don't think Toonami is above picking up the odd dark horse sleeper show now and again.  But they aren't going to do it at the expense of running a heavily demanded AAA show.  But, maybe if we can get some extra slots, it could happen.  But they'd have to be later... either right before Shippuden/One Piece... problem is, those two shows and Hunter x Hunter are settled in with audiences where they are, and 3 would be too late for a premiere, even a low key one.  I just don't see them running a "low key" show in the earlier higher value slots.  But yeah, that's pretty much the thing that's different.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Toonami should sacrifice getting shows like One-Punch Man or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure for the sake of smaller sized pickups.

 

Another note: I still think Shippuden, at the very least, should be booted off the block.  That would make me a happier person.  Just my opinion, though.

[Jman]

Have One Piece be sent to the depths of hell (or at least off the block) and I'll be happy.

[Admin]

I think they took off immediately.  I mean, even before they knew technically that they were going to be a block again.  The April Fools' stunt really was them hitting the ground running.  And they really had a pretty clear blueprint of what Toonami was and what they wanted it to be.  Certain shows have been hit or miss.  But the block basically hit the ground running and really hasn't faltered much as a whole.

 

The worse thing was probably running low on domestic programming and having to scale the block back, which in the long run really doesn't seem to have hurt the block or the fans.

 

I have personal ideas of stuff I would like to see them do and quibbles here and there about "more of this - less of that" but overall, the block has been pretty consistently successful and I enjoy almost all the shows they've picked on some level or other.

 

The danger for Adult Swim right now is complacency and resting on the comfy cushions of mainstream Fox shows.  Toonami, even at its most commercial/mainstream, is still something of a counterbalance to that.  Which I think is something of a blessing and a curse for Toonami programmers.

 

Ultimately I would like to see a Toonami that remains alert to good stuff.  I don't mind the necessity of mainstream stuff, I think it would serve the block to continue to occasionally drop in adult material, odd things, and an occasional nostalgic pickup.

 

It serves the block well to stick to that path of mainstream long runners and proven/popular new shows (especially if they can get good deals on those).  But I also hope there is space to throw bones to mature sensibilities, those seeking something different, and maybe that occasional bit of nostalgia.

 

If they can keep a toe in those waters as they forge a solid schedule of new/proven shows chosen with the Toonami audience in mind, I see no reason the well should ever run dry (at least for the forseeable future).

[Zenigundam]

I don't think Toonami will ever get cancelled again either. It managed to do well even when it aired things like Deadman Wonderland and Casshern Sins when it first returned, which, to me, are low quality anime.

 

The reason Toonami got cancelled from Cartoon Network had to be because of the poor quality of shows (4Kids One Piece, Blue Dragon, Bakugan, etc) getting bad ratings. There was no reason Toonami couldn't have been returned to weekday afternoons. People said it was because of Toonami not appealing to a broad enough demographic, namely ladies and toddlers, but if that was the case why did Naruto, Toonami's premier show back then, get put on Miguzi at 5:30 for a couple of months?

[Sketch]

I don't think Toonami will ever get cancelled again either. It managed to do well even when it aired things like Deadman Wonderland and Casshern Sins when it first returned, which, to me, are low quality anime.

 

The reason Toonami got cancelled from Cartoon Network had to be because of the poor quality of shows (4Kids One Piece, Blue Dragon, Bakugan, etc) getting bad ratings. There was no reason Toonami couldn't have been returned to weekday afternoons. People said it was because of Toonami not appealing to a broad enough demographic, namely ladies and toddlers, but if that was the case why did Naruto, Toonami's premier show back then, get put on Miguzi at 5:30 for a couple of months?

 

CN's desire to attract more girls in the afternoon seemed to be a short lived one as they soon enough were back to being a boy's club for the most part. However, rather than return Toonami to weekday afternoons they got rid of afternoon action all together outside of maybe Ben 10 or Pokemon on occasion and dedicated even more of their schedule to playing the same comedies as they would in prime time and other parts of the day. Jim Samples stepping down after the Aqua Teen Bomb scare in Boston dramatically changed the network and it's goals. Even temporarily putting animation production on the back burner to churn out a bunch of live action shows. They eventually refound their footing with animated comedy but they stopped giving action animation adequate support and slowly but surely they phased out pretty much all of it.

 

Adult Swim scaled back anime when they gained additional airings of FOX comedies and got better ratings from rerunning their own shows than anime but they never stopped playing it. As long as Mike Lazzo runs Adult Swim, Toonami isn't getting cancelled again. The only real danger is for them to lose some time but they've managed to make the block very cost effective to the point that they are at least breaking even on most shows including Naruto and One Piece which I figure have only become more affordable since getting shifted to the back of the block.

 

There's a danger with doing "just well enough" though. They seem like they're on the road to complacency largely relying on Dragon Ball to keep the casual audience watching and also relying on the established fanbases more than looking to introduce fresh things. I'd certainly like to see more from the "fresh things" category.

[ben0119]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Toonami should sacrifice getting shows like One-Punch Man or JoJo's Bizarre Adventure for the sake of smaller sized pickups.

 

Another note: I still think Shippuden, at the very least, should be booted off the block.  That would make me a happier person.  Just my opinion, though.

Oh okay.  I was gonna' say...

 

Shippuden needs to be sent to the Shadow Realm.  From what I understand, we're on yet another cliff of horrible storyline and quality drop.  Let's just see how much further we can get into abyss of terrible!  Must not disappoint loyal viewers!  Must not throw away episodes!  Must air all of Shittuden until the Sun turns into a red giant!  IT IS THE TOONAMI WAY!

[HardcoreHunter]

They only way that Toonami will ever air an anime that isn't mainstream is if they either create it or fund a light novel into an anime. Anything else that would have any chance at success will be main stream.

 

The way we watch anime I think has also changed enough where we won't have cult hits like we used to. FLCL for example was so under the radar in japan, that most people over there don't even remember it.  However thanks to adult swim and bad streaming/torrents of the day. The best way to watch it was catching it on tv at the same time as everyone else. Now everyone has a dvr, everyone has access to either good streams or fast torrents. A small show isn't going to gain the following that it used to.

 

Even shows that weren't all that small like Cowboy bebop probably wouldn't be as well received over here if AS didn't air them around the clock for over a decade. Really I didn't care much for the show the first time I saw it. I then would catch an episode here and there and was indifferent. Then an episode caught my interest for whatever reason that didn't before, and I would watch more intently. Eventually I actually liked the show and the themes it was expressing. Had this been the current trend of one and done, then I probably would have not given it a second thought. 

 

The issue is that even if they do go back to that way of showing anime. It wouldn't help because we all have too many other options for media. When I was little it was watch 1 of the 38 tv channels (no dvr if you want to watch something you better be there), play the video game you have played to death because you will only get 1-2 new games a  year, or go outside.  I really can't remember the last time I actually sat at home and watched toonami. I'm usually either at the bar or asleep when it's on and catch it on the DVR. If this would have been 10 years ago even I would have canceled plans if there was a show I wanted to watch.

[ben90210]

Toonami does try too hard.

 

But I try too harder!

[ben0119]

I'm buttmad because the hemorrhoids I have weren't caused by ben's massive schlong!