the trailer they keep showing for DBS this saturday

[mochi]

points of interest

 

 

1. Bulma looks YOUNGER in her redesign and it's weird

2. the fact that Bulma has to explain to Chichi that being married to a Saiyan is not the same as marrying a human man is amusing to me

(Bulma and Vegeta's relationship is much more stable than Chichi and Goku's because Bulma us a much smarter and more stable woman and doesn't think she can bully her husband into being her ideal vision of a man like Chichi does)

 

3. Goku flying into a raged Panic at finding out Vegeta got stronger than him is out of character, in Z he'd have been excited because he likes fighting stronger warriors so the idea that Vegeta can match his strength should make him happy, instead he's mad that Vegeta might be getting stronger than him.....why is he such an inapologetic asshole in super?, I don't like it

 

[PokeNirvash]

Where'd you get the idea that Goku was mad at Vegeta getting stronger than him? From what I could tell, he was more in disbelief that Vegeta was out training for six months and nobody bothered to tell him.

[Jman]

All your questions can be answered with "They just don't care."

 

Is it any wonder Super is crashing and burning?  This is Family Guy revival level bad.

[mochi]

 

Where'd you get the idea that Goku was mad at Vegeta getting stronger than him? From what I could tell, he was more in disbelief that Vegeta was out training for six months and nobody bothered to tell him.

 

they show the man blowing up a wall and threatening Bulma

 

[PokeNirvash]

 

they show the man blowing up a wall and threatening Bulma

 

 

I rewatched the trailer. Goku only burst through the wall because that's what Goku does, and him putting his hands on Bulma's shoulders in questioning doesn't indicate that he's threatening her.

 

Really, it's starting to sound like you're demonizing Goku on purpose without considering any other possible reason for his actions.

 

[mochi]

 

I rewatched the trailer. Goku only burst through the wall because that's what Goku does, and him putting his hands on Bulma's shoulders in questioning doesn't indicate that he's threatening her.

 

Really, it's starting to sound like you're demonizing Goku on purpose without considering any other possible reason for his actions.

 

in the current arc airing in Japan Goku himself tells Android 17 that he's completely incapable of feeling love and doesn't actually care about other people and the only reason he's been saving the world thus far is because he likes to fight insanely powerful warriors and it just works out way.....the fanbase is actually really pissed off about it

 

[PokeNirvash]

 

in the current arc airing in Japan Goku himself tells Android 17 that he's completely incapable of feeling love and doesn't actually care about other people and the only reason he's been saving the world thus far is because he likes to fight insanely powerful warriors and it just works out way.....the fanbase is actually really pissed off about it

 

 

And that justifies your claim that Goku is mad at Vegeta for training without him and was threatening Bulma over keeping it from him... how? Anger is not the only other emotion besides love, you know.

 

[mochi]

 

And that justifies your claim that Goku is mad at Vegeta for training without him and was threatening Bulma over keeping it from him... how? Anger is not the only other emotion besides love, you know.

 

maybe not, but they've basically confirmed that Goku is actually just a well liked villain in the current arc, which brings pretty much all of his behavior into question

 

[PokeNirvash]

 

maybe not, but they've basically confirmed that Goku is actually just a well liked villain in the current arc, which brings pretty much all of his behavior into question

 

 

Fair enough, but still, just because he lacks proper human emotions and holds not the most well-intentioned goals, it doesn't imply that anger is the only emotion left inside. Not to mention that the U.S.'s characterization of Goku is slightly different from the Japanese one anyways, so even if Goku was angry in this week's upcoming episode there, he wouldn't be here.

 

[mochi]

 

Fair enough, but still, just because he lacks proper human emotions and holds not the most well-intentioned goals, it doesn't imply that anger is the only emotion left inside. Not to mention that the U.S.'s characterization of Goku is slightly different from the Japanese one anyways, so even if Goku was angry in this week's upcoming episode there, he wouldn't be here.

 

Kai and Super are trying to restore some of his Japanese characterization

 

side note: he appears to achieve an evil super saiyan form in the opening of the current arc, it's aura is Black and Crimson and he gets Black Goku's evil grin when he transforms into it

 

[CaptainStarwind]

 

in the current arc airing in Japan Goku himself tells Android 17 that he's completely incapable of feeling love and doesn't actually care about other people and the only reason he's been saving the world thus far is because he likes to fight insanely powerful warriors and it just works out way.....the fanbase is actually really pissed off about it

 

 

 

You see, this is really coming off as more amoral to me than it is straight "Goku is a villain."  Like, maybe he doesn't really care about anyone or anything, but he isn't really actively trying to destroy it either.  Regardless, his US characterization was much better.

 

[mochi]

 

You see, this is really coming off as more amoral to me than it is straight "Goku is a villain."  Like, maybe he doesn't really care about anyone or anything, but he isn't really actively trying to destroy it either.  Regardless, his US characterization was much better.

 

he is shown using an evil looking super saiyan form in the new opening (it's Aura is black and red and he has a slasher smile)

 

[Jman]

It feels like we're getting a new "Super's the worst" thread every day.

 

But it's completely true though.  Super IS the fucking worst.  Making Goku closer to his original characterization has just made him an unlikable asshole ala Peter Griffin.  It's not fun to see the characters you used to like be turned into absolute dickheads.

 

Fuck Super.

[Daos]

This all sounds beyond awful.

[The1gairon]

points of interest

 

 

1. Bulma looks YOUNGER in her redesign and it's weird

2. the fact that Bulma has to explain to Chichi that being married to a Saiyan is not the same as marrying a human man is amusing to me

(Bulma and Vegeta's relationship is much more stable than Chichi and Goku's because Bulma us a much smarter and more stable woman and doesn't think she can bully her husband into being her ideal vision of a man like Chichi does)

 

3. Goku flying into a raged Panic at finding out Vegeta got stronger than him is out of character, in Z he'd have been excited because he likes fighting stronger warriors so the idea that Vegeta can match his strength should make him happy, instead he's mad that Vegeta might be getting stronger than him.....why is he such an inapologetic asshole in super?, I don't like it

 

 

 

1. What reason would they have to redesign her now?  It's in the middle of the show.  I think it's just a case of the animator being off-model. Now if you're talking about her hairdo and clothes changing, I am wondering about that too. We seen her fashions change before.

2. Oh NOW Chi-Chi is wondering if she shouldn't expect the same from a Saiyan!    I find that kind of hilarious, even thojgh that's likely not the intent.  Maybe all Saiyans have a huge appetite and a bit of a thick head.

3. I think he's just worried that everyone's working out except him, and that he needs to catch up. May not be related to who's stronger.

 

[OwlChemist81]

It feels like we're getting a new "Super's the worst" thread every day.

 

But it's completely true though.  Super IS the fucking worst.  Making Goku closer to his original characterization has just made him an unlikable asshole ala Peter Griffin.  It's not fun to see the characters you used to like be turned into absolute dickheads.

 

Fuck Super.

 

Super is only the worst because it makes Goku look like an asshole--IN JAPANESE. The English dub may yet include a slightly more noble characterization of Goku--after all, FUNimation DID slightly change the characters of Attack on Titan and a large article was written about that very phenomenon!

 

So far he isn't THAT different from his DBZ counterpart, but maybe that's just because he's voiced by the incomparable Sean Schemmel?

[The1gairon]

Super is only the worst because it makes Goku look like an asshole--IN JAPANESE. The English dub may yet include a slightly more noble characterization of Goku--after all, FUNimation DID slightly change the characters of Attack on Titan and a large article was written about that very phenomenon!

 

So far he isn't THAT different from his DBZ counterpart, but maybe that's just because he's voiced by the incomparable Sean Schemmel?

 

I'd love to read that Attack on Titan article.

[OwlChemist81]

I'd love to read that Attack on Titan article.

 

It's an early review of the dub on Anime News Network. I'll see if I can find it!

 

AH, found it! http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/attack-on-titan/episodes-1

 

Here's an excerpt: "In spurts and peeps, our heroes have become more snarky, detached and genre-savvy than they used to be. American audiences do love their detached quippy antiheroes! Unfortunately, that's just not who these three kids are supposed to be. Mikasa is not sarcastic, in fact she's disturbingly blunt. Armin is not arrogant, in fact he struggles with horrible self-loathing. Eren is definitely not self-reflective or eloquent by any stretch of the imagination. These three are painfully sincere characters, and the homogeneity of lines like these isn't just untrue to the original intent, it makes them all sound like one another. This becomes even more apparent when episode 3 begins and the syntax and dialogue choices shift heavily back to faithfulness: it was obviously written by a different person. The writer for ep. 4 is unclear, but the adaptive voice dominating 1 and 2 is clearly back in 5. Viewers should not be able to distinguish this so clearly in one viewing. Maintaining original intent is the best way to avoid that. However, to new Titan fans and less picky old ones, the mild snideness and verbosity might be welcome, as a version of these characters unto itself in a standalone dub. Either way, it's a minor gripe, and you can judge from the sample lines above how much it might affect your viewing experience. "

[The1gairon]

It's an early review of the dub on Anime News Network. I'll see if I can find it!

 

AH, found it! http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/review/attack-on-titan/episodes-1

 

Here's an excerpt: "In spurts and peeps, our heroes have become more snarky, detached and genre-savvy than they used to be. American audiences do love their detached quippy antiheroes! Unfortunately, that's just not who these three kids are supposed to be. Mikasa is not sarcastic, in fact she's disturbingly blunt. Armin is not arrogant, in fact he struggles with horrible self-loathing. Eren is definitely not self-reflective or eloquent by any stretch of the imagination. These three are painfully sincere characters, and the homogeneity of lines like these isn't just untrue to the original intent, it makes them all sound like one another. This becomes even more apparent when episode 3 begins and the syntax and dialogue choices shift heavily back to faithfulness: it was obviously written by a different person. The writer for ep. 4 is unclear, but the adaptive voice dominating 1 and 2 is clearly back in 5. Viewers should not be able to distinguish this so clearly in one viewing. Maintaining original intent is the best way to avoid that. However, to new Titan fans and less picky old ones, the mild snideness and verbosity might be welcome, as a version of these characters unto itself in a standalone dub. Either way, it's a minor gripe, and you can judge from the sample lines above how much it might affect your viewing experience. "

 

Well Mr. Writer, not everyone listens to both dub and sub versions of one show, so maybe they don't care about these comparisons. Also, these seems like INCREDIBLE changes yet I didn't feel like they were when watching the dub.  ALSO also, he does mention that Funimation loves to change full sentences or even meanings from the Japanese dialogue, but this paragraph makes him sound like he's totally unfamiliar with what the studio does.

[ben0119]

It feels like we're getting a new "Super's the worst" thread every day.

 

But it's completely true though.  Super IS the fucking worst.  Making Goku closer to his original characterization has just made him an unlikable asshole ala Peter Griffin.  It's not fun to see the characters you used to like be turned into absolute dickheads.

 

Fuck Super.

 

Posted almost exclusively by Mochi...

 

It's not even his "original characterization," though.  If you recall early on, Goku was a sweetheart who would help out anybody he ran into if he thought they were in trouble.  He destroyed the Red Ribbon Army because of all the pain and destruction they were causing, and eventually, to revive his friend's father who was killed by Tao.  The first time the Dragon Balls were thought of and used to bring someone back to life, actually.  Then he fights King Piccolo to stop him from taking over the world and get revenge for Krillin's death.  Goku fought Raditz to rescue his son (who he first attempted to talk into leaving).  Hell, the whole thing about him releasing Raditz tail was because Goku was so trusting and goodhearted, wanting to see the best in people.  Goku turned Super Saiyan because of his emotional reaction to Frieza killing his best friend.  Someone can't turn Super Saiyan without some sort of emotional breakthrough.  So, it's definitely not true that Goku was always a sociopath who just fought for the sake of it and didn't care about anyone.

 

So far, Goku doesn't seem that much different.  He did everything he could to prevent Beerus from destroying the Earth.  Like Raditz, he tried to talk his way into a solution first, before fighting him, and even then, his motivation for defeating Beerus is shown to be everyone he cares about.

 

But, I would take anything Mochi says on this with a grain of salt.  He's known for looking up spoilers and prejudging things, usually twisting them way out of what they actually mean and working himself into a frenzy so he can complain more.  A prime example of this can be seen with Tokyo Ghoul.  While he's right about that show not being very good, it's definitely not replete with the issues he was loudly complaining about, at least not yet.  In other words, he looks for things he hates even when they aren't there, so he can make a big fuss over it.  So, I'd wait until we see these developments ourselves in context before making these judgments.

[mochi]

Posted almost exclusively by Mochi...

 

It's not even his "original characterization," though.  If you recall early on, Goku was a sweetheart who would help out anybody he ran into if he thought they were in trouble.  He destroyed the Red Ribbon Army because of all the pain and destruction they were causing, and eventually, to revive his friend's father who was killed by Tao.  The first time the Dragon Balls were thought of and used to bring someone back to life, actually.  Then he fights King Piccolo to stop him from taking over the world and get revenge for Krillin's death.  Goku fought Raditz to rescue his son (who he first attempted to talk into leaving).  Hell, the whole thing about him releasing Raditz tail was because Goku was so trusting and goodhearted, wanting to see the best in people.  Goku turned Super Saiyan because of his emotional reaction to Frieza killing his best friend.  Someone can't turn Super Saiyan without some sort of emotional breakthrough.  So, it's definitely not true that Goku was always a sociopath who just fought for the sake of it and didn't care about anyone.

 

So far, Goku doesn't seem that much different.  He did everything he could to prevent Beerus from destroying the Earth.  Like Raditz, he tried to talk his way into a solution first, before fighting him, and even then, his motivation for defeating Beerus is shown to be everyone he cares about.

 

But, I would take anything Mochi says on this with a grain of salt.  He's known for looking up spoilers and prejudging things, usually twisting them way out of what they actually mean and working himself into a frenzy so he can complain more.  A prime example of this can be seen with Tokyo Ghoul.  While he's right about that show not being very good, it's definitely not replete with the issues he was loudly complaining about, at least not yet.  In other words, he looks for things he hates even when they aren't there, so he can make a big fuss over it.  So, I'd wait until we see these developments ourselves in context before making these judgments.

to be fair Goku only really Helped Launch cause Roshi told him to find a pretty girl

 

also my whole point is actually that Super Goku largely seems to NOT have classic Goku's niceness...super Goku is kind of a dick

 

(also, little Krillin was a coward and a jerk )

[OwlChemist81]

I just thought of something: perhaps it could just be that the reason we find Super Goku's Japanese characterization "dickish" is because we're a bunch of oversensitive pussies who can't properly understand Japanese culture?

[CaptainStarwind]

I just thought of something: perhaps it could just be that the reason we find Super Goku's Japanese characterization "dickish" is because we're a bunch of oversensitive pussies who can't properly understand Japanese culture?

 

The problem with the way Goku is acting in Super isn't that he's a dick, it's that he WASN'T a dick.  If Goku had been established in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as someone who really only cared about fighting and nothing else, then there wouldn't be a problem.  But the thing is, he wasn't like that.  Goku definitely cared about fighting in those two, but he was still essentially a guy who cared about his friends and family, and wanted to protect them.  Hell, I mean his rage over Krillin's death was the reason he went Super Saiyan in the first place.  That isn't the same kind of Goku that's in Super, and that's the problem I have.

[mochi]

I just thought of something: perhaps it could just be that the reason we find Super Goku's Japanese characterization "dickish" is because we're a bunch of oversensitive pussies who can't properly understand Japanese culture?

I don't know..in classic Dragonball Goku did not seem to be a sociopath, just very stupid

 

in super he's a self admitted scociopath

 

 

also, in classic dragonball he could ride the flying nimbus, which only a "kind pure hearted person with no evil in their heart" could ride

[Jman]

I just thought of something: perhaps it could just be that the reason we find Super Goku's Japanese characterization "dickish" is because we're a bunch of oversensitive pussies who can't properly understand Japanese culture?

 

Peter Griffin.  Asshole.

 

Homer Simpson.  Ignorant but ultimately good hearted.

 

There's a difference.

[mochi]

Peter Griffin.  Asshole.

 

Homer Simpson.  Ignorant but ultimately good hearted.

 

There's a difference.

Homer is an asshole too actually

 

he just understands right from wrong so he seems like less of one

 

Basically classic Goku = Homer (an somewhat assholeish idiot but one who more or less understands right from wrong and will do what's right when push comes to shove)

 

Super Goku = Peter (a complete unapologetic asshole with no sense of right or wrong who does whatever he wants and if someone tries to stop him he'll take measures to make sure he gets his way)

[PokeNirvash]

If that's how it is, then what FOX animated sitcom father can be easily compared to Krillin?

[OwlChemist81]

I think he's kinda like Cleveland!

 

Edit: nope, since he's a cop, he's like Joe!

 

Also, did Goku show shreds of dickishness in the first 16 episodes of subtitled Super? Has FUNi actually toned it down in what we've seen so far? Well, that might be your answer! If they have, we can also expect FUNI and Schemmel to tone it down over the next 70-ish!

[ben0119]

to be fair Goku only really Helped Launch cause Roshi told him to find a pretty girl

 

also my whole point is actually that Super Goku largely seems to NOT have classic Goku's niceness...super Goku is kind of a dick

 

(also, little Krillin was a coward and a jerk )

 

Again you are basing this on things that haven't happened yet.  You can't just take spoilers out of context like that.

 

Krillin grew as a person, if not much in height.

[ben0119]

The problem with the way Goku is acting in Super isn't that he's a dick, it's that he WASN'T a dick.  If Goku had been established in Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z as someone who really only cared about fighting and nothing else, then there wouldn't be a problem.  But the thing is, he wasn't like that.  Goku definitely cared about fighting in those two, but he was still essentially a guy who cared about his friends and family, and wanted to protect them.  Hell, I mean his rage over Krillin's death was the reason he went Super Saiyan in the first place.  That isn't the same kind of Goku that's in Super, and that's the problem I have.

 

How has Goku been a dick thus far?

[Sketch]

Goku is and always will be a negligent man-child. He's also tremendously out of touch with the rest of society as he has a more singular focus of getting stronger and fighting strong opponents. I do feel like Super is cranking that to 11 as he seems even more careless than ever but I don't think he's a dick nor do I think he will ever be a dick. He can however do dickish things because of his singular focus. Pester Whis and Bulma in this latest dubbed episode being a prime example of that and that's something I haven't seen Goku do to that extent since he was still very young. I dislike how cocky and careless he became in Resurrection F but Super's way of making him even more of a oblivious, singular focused bumpkin is getting old quick.

[PokeNirvash]

You're all forgetting the most important thing, now that the episode has actually aired.

 

I was right and Mochi was wrong. O0

[ben0119]

You're all forgetting the most important thing, now that the episode has actually aired.

 

I was right and Mochi was wrong. O0

 

Mochi is usually wrong about things when it comes to interpreting stuff in shows (and just in general), and I knew this time would be no different.  Still, kudos to you for owning him.