breaking news Metalocalypse the Movie: Army Of The Doomstar on [as] rerun July 5th Discussion!

[OwlChemist81]

Yeah, you heard it first!

[OwlChemist81]

I guess nobody gives a shit about this brilliant show anymore? Oh well.

And here's a bit more from it...

 

[[classic swim]]

1 hour ago, OwlChemist81 said:

I guess nobody gives a shit about this brilliant show anymore? 

This happened to Venture Bros, more or less. Can’t watch it again besides home release but want people to see it.

 Loved the couple times seeing in person.

[OwlChemist81]

Tonight, we ROCK!!!

[OwlChemist81]

🖕HOUR TO GO!!!🤘

[katt_goddess]

I swear if I pass out halfway through because its past my old person bedtime, I will be pissed. 

[rpgamer]

So, after this... what's left? Venture Bros got to wrap things up, Metalocalypse finally got theirs.. what big names are left that still deserve a proper ending? Do we bring back Moral Orel?

[rpgamer]

And just like Venture Bros, the last feeling I'm left with is... "It's over." It's such a bizarre feeling of.. Finality? I've never been a super fan, never been to cons or kept up with news or followed the creators.. but these are things that were always there, somewhere back in my youth.. things that never got any closure, so they remained with a sense of "that was great, and I'll forever wonder where they were going with it." The return is like finally reading the final chapter of a book, and knowing you have to leave that world behind now.

I'm glad they got to make this. Glad for the creators, and glad for the fans. Time is rough on everyone.. so you really got to appreciate when it gives you the chance to say what you set out to say, to give to the world everything you intended.

[rpgamer]

(yep I'm gonna just keep posting)

It's kinda funny, too, earlier in the day, prior to Checkered Past, Regular Show was also re-airing its finale, which sorta captured a lot of the same sentiments. And as I dwell on it, it makes me think, the mark of a great show must surely be that capacity to smoothly transition from simply entertaining to truly compelling. Regular Show and Adventure Time, Steven Universe, even Craig of the Creek seemed to grasp at it. And on the [as] side.. it feels like the closest they've come to that lately is Rick and Morty, but that's certainly falling far short of compelling. Even the "Evil Morty" or "Rick Prime" arcs never seemed like they wanted to amount to much. Ballmastrz, maybe? It didn't really click for me, but I seem to recall it trying to go out with a bang..

The flip side of that is probably that, by avoiding anything that could become too grandiose, they dodge the budget bullet that briefly killed this and VB. Could even be a simple matter of the network just not wanting to stray too far from their mindless comedy lane.

You could maybe even make a case for this being why Unicorn Warriors Eternal kinda just stumbled. It was trying to be that truly compelling story from the start, without having the gentle buildup and time to grow.

FLCL may be a great example of how you can make that transition quickly, as well as demonstrating that the transition is practically necessary for something to truly take off. And then you have all of the sequels that just can't quite get it right, as if they fail to find the right balance, being too eager to get to the "compelling" point.

[Jman]

Mike Lazzo has gone on the record that he did not like it when Adult Swim comedies got too plot-heavy, and would actively intervene to make them get back to the funny or cancel them outright if showrunners resisted his direction.  It's why Metalocalypse didn't get its finale movie until he was long gone, it was his policy that the show was to remain canceled and he actively refused to entertain Brendon Smalls's offers to just buy the IP outright.

 

[[classic swim]]

Dethklok was a successful brand within a brand that Lazzo was willing to dump out altogether because he was the only one that didn’t get it.

The show having 30 minute episodes was just about the only thing you could roll your head at looking back. I still love Doomstar Requiem and I don’t know how hard it would’ve been to just say “no” if you were that opposed to begin with.

[Toonamiguy321]

11 hours ago, rpgamer said:

And just like Venture Bros, the last feeling I'm left with is... "It's over." It's such a bizarre feeling of.. Finality? I've never been a super fan, never been to cons or kept up with news or followed the creators.. but these are things that were always there, somewhere back in my youth.. things that never got any closure, so they remained with a sense of "that was great, and I'll forever wonder where they were going with it." The return is like finally reading the final chapter of a book, and knowing you have to leave that world behind now.

I feel the same way. Both of these shows rested in the back of my mind in the “never will be finished” pile, so it’s like a little weight I didn’t know was there feels like it’s lifted. For me, there is also kind of a feeling of disappointment. Yes, we got to cap off these stories, but they also felt extremely rushed. Especially for Metal, where the pacing for so long was band antics -> war room explanation -> “no, we will watch and wait”. It took years to get little plot threads moving, then resolved them all in a single special. I get it, it was finish now or never finish (looking at you Ballmastrz), but it leaves you feeling there should have been more. 
 

4 hours ago, Jman said:

Mike Lazzo has gone on the record that he did not like it when Adult Swim comedies got too plot-heavy, and would actively intervene to make them get back to the funny or cancel them outright if showrunners resisted his direction.  It's why Metalocalypse didn't get its finale movie until he was long gone, it was his policy that the show was to remain canceled and he actively refused to entertain Brendon Smalls's offers to just buy the IP outright.

 

Wasn’t the issue with Metal that there was some kind of personal beef between Small and Lazzo? I thought things like the fax machine gag was Lazzo being petty, both to the fans and Small. 

[rpgamer]

There may have been some extra layers to it, but building up an actual plot certainly didn't do it any favors in Lazzo's eyes.

Which, I get the desire to want to focus on leaning into the funny, but.. I'd maybe argue that a network needs shows like this every once in a while to actually stay relevant. You can load yourself up on all the Family Guys and Robot Chickens etc, and they might be good for ratings, but, they're not much use beyond background noise after a while. You need something that makes waves and leaves an impression. You need shows that leave a legacy, for their own sake, for the creators, and for the network. I'd wager you couldn't build the loyal fanbase [as] has without these occasional gems that did more than just make people laugh.

[katt_goddess]

It's doing an encore on Sunday night so putting this back in here.

[OwlChemist81]

11 hours ago, katt_goddess said:

It's doing an encore on Sunday night so putting this back in here.

Thank you very much, Katt! I didn't catch that.

[Jman]

21 hours ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

Wasn’t the issue with Metal that there was some kind of personal beef between Small and Lazzo? I thought things like the fax machine gag was Lazzo being petty, both to the fans and Small. 

The closest official word we have was when Lazzo did an AMA about it on Reddit where he said that he wanted shows to be funny first, and in the case of Metalocalypse and other more serialized works, he felt the focus on story got away from the focus on being funny, so he canceled them.

Lazzo expressed similar contempt for Moral Orel evolving into a drama.

Edited April 7 by Jman

[rpgamer]

Can you imagine, under Lazzo, a show like Bojack Horseman would've 100% been canned long before it really picked up stride? Meanwhile, we got... Mr. Pickles.

Anyway, on subject, one thing I really appreciated about the movie was the occasional animation nods. I swear, Knubbler's final scene reminded me of something out of DBZ maybe, or something similar. There's a shot in the final fight that seemed very Evangelion, and I think there may have even been an Akira reference around there as well. Definitely a lot of little easter eggs to pick apart.

My (maybe) one criticism would be Abigail. I mean... I guess they needed to add her character to give Nathan a serious case of rejection.. but, after everything she did in the last season, and all they went through to rescue her (maybe incidental to rescuing Toki...), it just felt a little cheap to have her show up, turn Nathan down, and then that's just the end of her story.

[katt_goddess]

The problem with Lazzo is that he always seemed to want that 'Simpsons' type series - a comedy that can be watched in almost any episode order, everything starts and ends with that particular episode, and there's no need to worry about things getting 'heavy' or having continuity issues potentially pop up because the continuity is literally its always the same characters in every episode and that's pretty much it. The moment something he had personally labeled as pure comedy started to have a more serious undercurrent and stories that built on previous stories, he would have an allergic reaction. At least 'Moral Orel' got to have its final albeit truncated season to finish up Orel's story but 'Metalocalypse' got the Viacom treatment [ we own the IP and are going to sit on it forever until everything about it is dated and dead and there's nothing you can do about it so nah ] and could have been unended forever. 

On the other hand, DeMarco seems willing to slap his name on anything he sees as artistic even if it only manages to survive a single confusing season. Someone get him to tackle the remains of 'Deadman Wonderland'.  

[Toonamiguy321]

23 minutes ago, katt_goddess said:

The problem with Lazzo is that he always seemed to want that 'Simpsons' type series - a comedy that can be watched in almost any episode order, everything starts and ends with that particular episode, and there's no need to worry about things getting 'heavy' or having continuity issues potentially pop up because the continuity is literally its always the same characters in every episode and that's pretty much it. The moment something he had personally labeled as pure comedy started to have a more serious undercurrent and stories that built on previous stories, he would have an allergic reaction. At least 'Moral Orel' got to have its final albeit truncated season to finish up Orel's story but 'Metalocalypse' got the Viacom treatment [ we own the IP and are going to sit on it forever until everything about it is dated and dead and there's nothing you can do about it so nah ] and could have been unended forever. 

On the other hand, DeMarco seems willing to slap his name on anything he sees as artistic even if it only manages to survive a single confusing season. Someone get him to tackle the remains of 'Deadman Wonderland'.  

Ol Lazzo sure got a better attitude with a show growing some lore when Rick and Morty started pulling down the numbers though. 
 

Ever since Toonami started doing originals I have desperately wanted them to pick up and finish Deadman Wonderland. Not sure what would be easier though, doing some retcons from the last few episodes since it went way off track from the manga, or just starting over. 

[katt_goddess]

1 hour ago, Toonamiguy321 said:

Ol Lazzo sure got a better attitude with a show growing some lore when Rick and Morty started pulling down the numbers though. 
 

Ever since Toonami started doing originals I have desperately wanted them to pick up and finish Deadman Wonderland. Not sure what would be easier though, doing some retcons from the last few episodes since it went way off track from the manga, or just starting over. 

Venture Brothers might have helped with the attitude a bit in that that show also has progression. It definitely helps that whatever deal was made regarding R&M it included mass quantities of merch that could be tossed out at Cons, on 'As Seen On [ as ]' and Hot Topic. He also hasn't been there for the more recent turns which included all this previous season's loose end tie-ups and we don't know if he would have killed the show completely after the firing. As far as the new normal is, R&M lives as long as whoever it is that owns things now can make some money from it. And as much as it hurts to say, as long as it's bringing in that money, other projects may get to live that might otherwise get axed just because someone like Zaslav is looking for another tax write-off.

It's been so long since I watched Deadman that I've got the mangas more on the surface of my mind than that season. But I thought [ I could be remembering wrong ] that it ended in a way that wouldn't necessarily require much in the way of doing anything to continue it. I 'think' the people who needed to escape escaped and those that needed to stay stayed in the show. But I wouldn't be offended if it got the FMA: Brotherhood treatment either and ended up being completely redone but with the same animation/artwork. 

[Top Gun]

What's funny is just how wrong Lazzo's view wound up being. Even back when he said it, long-form serialized anime like Naruto and Bleach were exploding in popularity worldwide. The block all but killed off its anime offerings at the same time the domestic anime bubble was at its peak. Fast-forward to today, and anime/manga are massive globally. On the live-action side of things, the entire "prestige era" of television hits is full of series that involved prolonged plot arcs and character development, including many comedy series. Lazzo may not have wanted his productions to get too lore-heavy, but time has borne out that he was in a small minority. 

[OwlChemist81]

Bump for tonight!