shippuden Naruto Shippuden Episode 298 Discussion

[CorbeauKarasu]

LOL, another haxx-ass sharingan move.

Shisui was a real fucing G though.

he's amazing in Ultimate Ninja Storm

[DangerMouse]

LOL f-ing Danzo

[CorbeauKarasu]

that, to me, was my first clue about Itachi's nature in the flashback. he was accused of killing shisui, but the concept seemed to cause him pain AND he got angry when the Uchiha elders talked about Shisui like they knew him. like he was on their side and would never go against them. i could tell tat shisui and itachi were real bros. i immediately suspected shisui of being itachi's accomplice.

[CorbeauKarasu]

how is it lucky that shisui's eye came into play?

[ben0119]

Oh, so that crow was in Naruto this whole time?  

Itachi broke the control jutsu?

Who is this Shisui?  Yet another hax Itachi?

More eye shenanigans.

Now the crow works for Naruto.

Yeah Sasuke took Itachi's eyes.  But weren't Itachi's eyes blind and fucked before he died due to overuse of visual jutsu?

[DangerMouse]

Concentrate on what my death would do to Sasuke lol

You pretty much gave him to Orochimaru, it's still ridiculous he came out of that the winner one-on-one

[CorbeauKarasu]

i don't want to sound arrogant as an amateur-ass writer, but i wonder if better care could have made Bee's rhyming more palatable

[AnimationFan14]

Absorbing the chakra caused him to transform 

[CorbeauKarasu]

1 minute ago, ben0119 said:

Oh, so that crow was in Naruto this whole time?  

Itachi broke the control jutsu?

Who is this Shisui?  Yet another hax Itachi?

More eye shenanigans.

Now the crow works for Naruto.

Yeah Sasuke took Itachi's eyes.  But weren't Itachi's eyes blind and fucked before he died due to overuse of visual jutsu?

didn't we hear shisui's story back during the last fight with danzo? i can't keep track of which plot points happeed when... this isn't new information in the anime, is it

[CorbeauKarasu]

2 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Oh, so that crow was in Naruto this whole time?  

Itachi broke the control jutsu?

Who is this Shisui?  Yet another hax Itachi?

More eye shenanigans.

Now the crow works for Naruto.

Yeah Sasuke took Itachi's eyes.  But weren't Itachi's eyes blind and fucked before he died due to overuse of visual jutsu?

the eyes are blind until they get transplanted into another mangekyou uchiha, right? even if they were going bad for itachi they became more powerful when sasuke inherited them

[ben0119]

8 minutes ago, DangerMouse said:

Demon Slayer gone but the crows haven't left, thanks to Paranoia Agent, and now Naruto!

[ben0119]

1 minute ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

the eyes are blind until they get transplanted into another mangekyou uchiha, right? even if they were going bad for itachi they became more powerful when sasuke inherited them

Well that sure sounds like convenient bullshit to me lmao.

[ben0119]

4 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

didn't we hear shisui's story back during the last fight with danzo? i can't keep track of which plot points happeed when... this isn't new information in the anime, is it

I'm not sure.  I can't keep all this Uchiha stuff straight, and Kishimoto keeps introducing more and more hax members of the clan.  They sure do come up a lot for an extinct clan!

[CorbeauKarasu]

1 minute ago, ben0119 said:

I'm not sure.  I can't keep all this Uchiha stuff straight, and Kishimoto keeps introducing more and more hax members of the clan.  They sure do come up a lot for an extinct clan!

well, you can be sure that's not over yet. XD XD

[DangerMouse]

11 minutes ago, AnimationFan14 said:

Absorbing the chakra caused him to transform 

[ben0119]

12 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

yeah, we learned about the uchiha coup a long time ago. honestly, though i can't brag i saw everything coming, their shadiness was apparent back during Sasuke's original flashback.

i expected Itachi to be mor complex and righteous than he was portrayed. but i never expected him to be an angelic, heroic martyr.

Kabuto lets the corpses' personalities run on their own because it makes their attacks more fluid an effective if their own minds ad muscle memories are dictating their attacks. he stated, i beliee, that if he had full controll of ther minds, that their movements would be more static and predictable. 

the debate, i suppose, is whether you think they're more effective fighting at their ful strength, but able to warn the enemy of their movements, 

or if they can't warn or dissent, but move more slowly and rigidly

of course, you have to remember that only a handful of the corpses would be inclined to warn their enemies on the battlefield

I think I remember Madara saying that, it's just hard to take everything he says as the gospel truth.  But Itachi just confirmed it.  Still, wiping them all out, even the civilians and those not involved in the plot, is going too far.  And was it ever said if Sarutobi was involved in the decision?  I can't imagine he would order or condone such an operation.  Eh, Sasuke and Itachi's dad and those other Uchihas who gave Itachi shit just seemed like assholes to me.  Not really shady per se.

I swear it feels like a retcon.  But even if it was planned, it is a lame twist to me that is a little hard to take.  Also Itachi isn't a really a saint since he killed a lot of innocent people along with the conspirators.

Oh, I must have forgotten about that.  Makes enough sense I suppose.  And yeah, most of the undead aren't so friendly!

[ben0119]

Well, this sure has take a bad turn!  Not sure what Kabuto is planning, but Nagato is STEALING NARUTO'S SOUL!

 

Haha, they put the movie Shang Tsung in the games?

[CorbeauKarasu]

3 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

I think I remember Madara saying that, it's just hard to take everything he says as the gospel truth.  But Itachi just confirmed it.  Still, wiping them all out, even the civilians and those not involved in the plot, is going too far.  And was it ever said if Sarutobi was involved in the decision?  I can't imagine he would order or condone such an operation.  Eh, Sasuke and Itachi's dad and those other Uchihas who gave Itachi shit just seemed like assholes to me.  Not really shady per se.

I swear it feels like a retcon.  But even if it was planned, it is a lame twist to me that is a little hard to take.  Also Itachi isn't a really a saint since he killed a lot of innocent people along with the conspirators.

Oh, I must have forgotten about that.  Makes enough sense I suppose.  And yeah, most of the undead aren't so friendly!

i think i remember it being indicated that all of the Uchiha were aware of the plot, and therefore involved.

honestly, i expected Itachi to still be a murderous badass who joined the akatsuki because he wanted to, but still killed the Uchiha for a good reason and spared Sasuke because he adored his little brother. then he lied about it and tormented sasuke because he could tell that someting big and dangerous was coming and he desperately worried that his precious brother wouldn't be strong enough to survive it without a lot of tough-love pushing.

that it was a hit-job ordered by the village leadership and that itachi did it to avoid a civil war that would entice the other villages to strike and kick off a 4th ninja war a decade early was something i didn't see coming at all.

jiraiya used to mention that he had someone feedng him info from inside the akatsuki, but they never specified whether that was Itachi or not.

[ben0119]

23 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

that, to me, was my first clue about Itachi's nature in the flashback. he was accused of killing shisui, but the concept seemed to cause him pain AND he got angry when the Uchiha elders talked about Shisui like they knew him. like he was on their side and would never go against them. i could tell tat shisui and itachi were real bros. i immediately suspected shisui of being itachi's accomplice.

Was that the guy Itachi killed to get the Mangyeko Sharingan?  Which is still the stupidest thing ever.  TO GET THIS POWER, YOU HAVE TO KILL YOUR BEST FRIEND. So it was really more like assisted suicide?  But wait, didn't Itachi just say Shisui let him have his eye and then took off?

[CorbeauKarasu]

Just now, ben0119 said:

Was that the guy Itachi killed to get the Mangyeko Sharingan?  Which is still the stupidest thing ever.  TO GET THIS POWER, YOU HAVE TO KILL YOUR BEST FRIEND. So it was really more like assisted suicide?  But wait, didn't Itachi just say Shisui let him have his eye and then took off?

yes.

i figured it was a "breking of your physical and psychological limits through harsh trauma" thing.

but Kakashi's attaining of the mangekyou sharingan kind of threw all that out the window. i'm pretty sure we haven't yet seen exactly why that works for him by this eisode of the anime, but the timing of it is a bit weird...or at least counteracts my original theory just a bit.

[ben0119]

1 minute ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

i think i remember it being indicated that all of the Uchiha were aware of the plot, and therefore involved.

honestly, i expected Itachi to still be a murderous badass who joined the akatsuki because he wanted to, but still killed the Uchiha for a good reason and spared Sasuke because he adored his little brother. then he lied about it and tormented sasuke because he could tell that someting big and dangerous was coming and he desperately worried that his precious brother wouldn't be strong enough to survive it without a lot of tough-love pushing.

that it was a hit-job ordered by the village leadership and that itachi did it to avoid a civil war that would entice the other villages to strike and kick off a 4th ninja war a decade early was something i didn't see coming at all.

jiraiya used to mention that he had someone feedng him info from inside the akatsuki, but they never specified whether that was Itachi or not.

That is a little ridiculous.  Remember that there were children, and people running shops and stuff.  Not everyone in the clan were ninjas.  But I don't remember it being said that everyone was involved.

I took it at face value.  Itachi originally said he killed them all to test his power?  It seemed kind of silly, but straightforward and simple enough, makes sense for a villain who cares about power and himself, and he was always cold toward Sasuke and everyone else.  To make it what was eventually revealed just seems way too convoluted and difficult to believe, whether it was an asspull retcon or a planned twist.

Hmm, don't remember that.  That would make sense though.

[ben0119]

6 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

yes.

i figured it was a "breking of your physical and psychological limits through harsh trauma" thing.

but Kakashi's attaining of the mangekyou sharingan kind of threw all that out the window. i'm pretty sure we haven't yet seen exactly why that works for him by this eisode of the anime, but the timing of it is a bit weird...or at least counteracts my original theory just a bit.

So did he kill the Shisui guy or not?  I thought in this episode Itachi said Shisui let Itachi have his remaining eye and then left.  Which means Itachi didn't get the mangekyo by killing him, but by simply taking his eye.  But then why did Itachi tell Sasuke the thing about killing your best friend?

How did Kakashi get the mangekyo sharingan again?  If it was explained I don't remember what the explanation was.

[OwlChemist81]

1 minute ago, saito34 said:

"What the wha"

My response to everything going on exactly!!

[CorbeauKarasu]

2 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

 

I took it at face value.  Itachi originally said he killed them all to test his power?  It seemed kind of silly, but straightforward and simple enough, makes sense for a villain who cares about power and himself, and he was always cold toward Sasuke and everyone else.  

 

that's not unreasonable.

but (and they always say later that Kishimoto lifted a lot of Naruto's elements) right from the drop, i found Itachi's words and actions toward Sasuke very suspicious. he immediately reminded me of anime older brothers like Folken Fanel from Escaflowne and Illumi Zoldyck from Hunter x Hunter (though i never saw Hunter x Hunter until it was on toonami), who were decided antagonists torturously cruel to their younger brothers, but only because they almost creepily adored them and wanted to make sure they survive hardship by becoming strong and capable.

Itachi was always, like, abusive about it, but everything he ever said to Sasuke was advice, one way or another.

[CorbeauKarasu]

3 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

So did he kill the Shisui guy or not?  I thought in this episode Itachi said Shisui let Itachi have his remaining eye and then left.  Which means Itachi didn't get the mangekyo by killing him, but by simply taking his eye.  But then why did Itachi tell Sasuke the thing about killing your best friend?

How did Kakashi get the mangekyo sharingan again?  If it was explained I don't remember what the explanation was.

as for shisui, i think (but am not sure) that they already explained that earlier in the series, but i seem to remember it being sort of convoluted and cop-outty. like itachi's necessary actions/inactions led partially to Shisui's needing to kill himself, so technically, Itachi met the conditions (which is, admittedly, kind bullshit)

but as for Kakashi, the full explanation has not  yet come up in the anime because it has a lot to do with the final arc plot twist that's coming (well, ONE of them, anyway)

[DangerMouse]

38 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

i don't want to sound arrogant as an amateur-ass writer, but i wonder if better care could have made Bee's rhyming more palatable

Hmm, probably. 

Though I guess to be fair they have to translate so they can't fully craft his dialogue from scratch even though they can reword the translation to make more sense or flow better than a straight translation.

It could just be the timing of the lengthy filler we just went through but it feels like he goes through long stretches with little dialogue where he feels like he's just in the background and then occasionally gets too long-winded lol.

[ben0119]

2 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

that's not unreasonable.

but (and they always say later that Kishimoto lifted a lot of Naruto's elements) right from the drop, i found Itachi's words and actions toward Sasuke very suspicious. he immediately reminded me of anime older brothers like Folken Fanel from Escaflowne and Illumi Zoldyck from Hunter x Hunter (though i never saw Hunter x Hunter until it was on toonami), who were decided antagonists torturously cruel to their younger brothers, but only because they almost creepily adored them and wanted to make sure they survive hardship by becoming strong and capable.

Itachi was always, like, abusive about it, but everything he ever said to Sasuke was advice, one way or another.

I saw Hunter x Hunter on Toonami too, but dropped it during that tower arc because I was so frustrated with the show being directionless and nothing happening.  But yeah it's clear a lot of Naruto was inspired from that series.  Illumi was a bit like Itachi (the names are even similar now that I think about it.)  Though, the whole eye thing came from Kurapika.  I think his clan was wiped out too, or a big group of them was.  So Killua and Illumi, and Kurapika and his clan kinda got combined to make Sasuke and Itachi and the Uchihas.

I haven't seen anything Escaflowne in years since it was originally on TV and don't remember it well.  I'll have to check it out again.  Isn't the original dub locked to a major censored edit or something though?  It's like the original Sailor Moon dub and the Rave Master dub, isn't it?

Wasn't it originally portrayed as Itachi was torturing Sasuke, and giving advice in a dickish way, to make him hate him and strive to get stronger so Itachi would have someone else to test his strength against?  It didn't seem like Itachi actually cared about Sasuke.  That seemed fine on face value too.

[ben0119]

11 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

as for shisui, i think (but am not sure) that they already explained that earlier in the series, but i seem to remember it being sort of convoluted and cop-outty. like itachi's necessary actions/inactions led partially to Shisui's needing to kill himself, so technically, Itachi met the conditions (which is, admittedly, kind bullshit)

but as for Kakashi, the full explanation has not  yet come up in the anime because it has a lot to do with the final arc plot twist that's coming (well, ONE of them, anyway)

Okay, because originally it was Itachi killed Shisui straight up, full stop.  Though it sort of wouldn't make sense that if Itachi only saw Shisui as a tool to get more power and not really a best friend, how would he have met the requirements of killing your best friend?  Because the original portrayal and interpretation of Itachi, he doesn't really seem to care about anyone and just wants power.

But that is moot, after all the convoluted twists.

But I was just confused by this episode.  At first I thought that it was like assisted suicide, but then I thought Itachi said Shisui just gave him his eye and left?  Did he kill himself after that?  Why would he have to kill himself at that point if both his eyes were gone and there was nothing to fight over?  So wait, Itachi didn't get the power by taking Shisui's eye, which would already have the mangekyo in it, but still managed to meet the killing best friend requirement even though Shisui killed himself?

*sigh* I guess I will have to re-watch this ep.

Oh ok.

[CorbeauKarasu]

8 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

I saw Hunter x Hunter on Toonami too, but dropped it during that tower arc because I was so frustrated with the show being directionless and nothing happening.  But yeah it's clear a lot of Naruto was inspired from that series.  Illumi was a bit like Itachi (the names are even similar now that I think about it.)  Though, the whole eye thing came from Kurapika.  I think his clan was wiped out too, or a big group of them was.  So Killua and Illumi, and Kurapika and his clan kinda got combined to make Sasuke and Itachi and the Uchihas.

I haven't seen anything Escaflowne in years since it was originally on TV and don't remember it well.  I'll have to check it out again.  Isn't the original dub locked to a major censored edit or something though?  It's like the original Sailor Moon dub and the Rave Master dub, isn't it?

Wasn't it originally portrayed as Itachi was torturing Sasuke, and giving advice in a dickish way, to make him hate him and strive to get stronger so Itachi would have someone else to test his strength against?  It didn't seem like Itachi actually cared about Sasuke.  That seemed fine on face value too.

either way, both in my initial assumptions and the actual truth that came out, that part about him wanted only to test his strength was a lie.

 

as for HxH, the tower arc? you never saw the Chimera Ants arc????? or yorknew city? if you can catch up, i definitely recommend it. i liked the tower arc a lot, myself. the greed island arc might end up appealing to you, but i thought it seemed way too video-gamey. but yorknew city arc and chimerca ants arc are fucking epic. definitely worth getting to.

i don't remember much about escaflowne's dub outside of it having a bunch of inuyasha and gundam wing VAs. is the quality why FUNimation redubbed it? i was always pissed about it getting a new dub, but if what you say is true, then maybe it was a good thing after all.

[ben0119]

29 minutes ago, CorbeauKarasu said:

either way, both in my initial assumptions and the actual truth that came out, that part about him wanted only to test his strength was a lie.

 

as for HxH, the tower arc? you never saw the Chimera Ants arc????? or yorknew city? if you can catch up, i definitely recommend it. i liked the tower arc a lot, myself. the greed island arc might end up appealing to you, but i thought it seemed way too video-gamey. but yorknew city arc and chimerca ants arc are fucking epic. definitely worth getting to.

i don't remember much about escaflowne's dub outside of it having a bunch of inuyasha and gundam wing VAs. is the quality why FUNimation redubbed it? i was always pissed about it getting a new dub, but if what you say is true, then maybe it was a good thing after all.

Well, I could look it up to see if the Itachi twist was planned, but that would risk spoilers, for whatever I care about them at this point for this show, and takes the assumption Kishimoto is honest about it.

The parts of Hunter x Hunter I watched seem plodding and directionless, a whole lot of nothing, and I didn't find a lot of the characters likable.  Though I am told the older Hunter x Hunter anime did a better job with those arcs.  The last episodes I saw, Gon and Killua were chopping people in the backs to level-grind and money-farm up a tower.  That was videogamey, but not in a good way lol.  So since I didn't like most of the show before that, I don't think I would like what comes after.  But I really tried to be patient with that show, but I just couldn't stand it anymore.  And I almost NEVER drop shows mid-way through, even the ones I really hate.

I just looked into the Escaflowne dub.  Talk about convoluted history!  Turns out it had both an edited and uncut dub, but the latter only aired in Canada, but looks like you could buy it on home video.  But the music is changed, not sure if the original music is in the uncut Ocean dub version.  But there were apparently deleted scenes which Funi got their hands on and dubbed, which necessitated re-dubbing the whole series.  But Funi also released the original dub with their release.  I wonder if both dubs are on Funi Now.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Vision_of_Escaflowne

https://escaflowne.fandom.com/wiki/Dubs

Also, I love how this one website so matter of factly talks about how the dubs were back then haha.  "May come off as cheesy to modern viewers."

https://dubbing.fandom.com/wiki/The_Vision_of_Escaflowne

But this is just making me more interested in seeing the show?  But what version to watch?!

Edited May 31, 2020 by ben0119

[CorbeauKarasu]

whether or not the entirety of the itachi twist was planned from the beginning, which - while very possible - is also something I doubt. it seems clear that he'd planned from the beginning for Itachi to be a bit more redeemable than he was initially portrayed.

if you can get to the ending of the series, i feel confident (and he's admitted this) that the ending was absolutely planned from the beginning, but obviously, the fourth ninja war was something born of his editors wishing to artificially lengthen the series. 

it's also clear that, if Naruto is a rip-off of anything, it's a rip-off of Hunter x Hunter. a lot of their best parts are way too similar and HxH definitely came first. though chimera ants arc....Naruto never had ANYTHING like that. it's epic and definitely worth watching, but it's fucking brutal and damn near heartbreaking at multiple points...

[saito34]

7 hours ago, OwlChemist81 said:

My response to everything going on exactly!!

So true...haha