The Walking Dead Season 7

[1pooh4u]

Anyone watching?  I have a feeling some of the season is gonna be boring

as hell. Especially any episodes dealing with Morgan, Carol and The Kingdom :-\

[PenguinBoss]

All I'm sure of is that the tiger is going to die and I'm going to cry  :'(

[Admin]

I was just saying, I think this is by far the best season of the show.

 

Just in terms of the general production and story quality episode for episode, and also how the episodes interconnect into the larger season.

 

My experience with this show is usually up and down and up and down, good episode, then a band episode, or just within episodes - good scene followed by bad scene, cool thing followed by "wtf" thing, etc.

 

But for me, the first 3 episodes of Season 7 are just about perfect.  And 4 was good, not quite up to that standard, and then 5 was again a very good episode.

 

so 1 out of 5 so far, and even the "1" wasn't so bad.

 

This is the first season of the show that has managed to keep its creative head above water for the longest time for my money so far. 

 

we're halfway to the midseason break, and almost all the eps have been pretty stellar.

[Gyaos]

For now, I just know that they're establishing Negan as well as Ezekiel. They're new characters to the audience, so they need to be developed. I can understand if people don't want to stick around after the season opener, but ultimately things are going slowly because they're trying to establish what is happening before they get to more impactful moments in the story.

[Lacks_Sympathy]

I didn't think I would say this but I'm seriously getting tired of TWD. I've been a big fan of the show since it's inception and I know the show is following the comic's story line but it's just become too much of the same for me. The story is always just about some new arch-villain who is now posing a threat to our main cast of survivors (who there are far too many of now and I barely remember or care about what's going on with half of them), they get separated by some catastrophic event, there are some people wandering around and discovering random things in the boonies, some prolonged monologues about the state of the current world and what it means to live/survive...blah blah blah....sprinkled in with some major deaths from time to time to keep interest...and boom....rinse and repeat for continued viewership.

 

At this point the only characters I care about are Rick, Morgan, Daryl and Carol. Most of the other characters I could care less for. I really wish the show would head off into the direction of what caused all this? Perhaps what's happening on a global scale. After 7 seasons there should be some sense of this having an end in sight but it's just like the same thing over and and over and over and over. Ok...rant OVER!

[1pooh4u]

I'm having a love/hate relationship with this season. I'm not going to

stop watching or anything but I wish the story moved a bit faster.

 

I'm curious about the Oceanside community of all women and I wonder if Tara will go back to try to get help since they have tons of guns.

 

I will say this about the season, I'm enjoying the indie film feel of the last couple of episodes, especially the one where Carl and Enid went to the Hilltop. I thought it was very sweet and interesting. A coming of age story in the apocalypse.

[Admin]

Liked the Enid episode.

 

Heath was the one sore spot for me.  He just represents to me those "non-character" characters.  First he's all bleeding heart, the he's cut-throat, then he doesn't know what he is.  He's all "we never leave anybody behind" and then he leaves Tara behind.  Like - the character isn't a character, it's just - a setpiece that the writers put where they need it and it does whatever they want it to do.  But he's not really a character with a set morality and real-seeming character traits. 

 

Bits of the story were a little basic and glossed over.  But it was alright.  A nice little episode.  Oceanside was a nice addition.

 

Obviously things don't pan out exactly as they do in the comics on the show, so it'll be interesting to see where the Oceanside story goes.

 

I actually love the pace of this season so far.  It feels more like the first episode of the show with Rick waking up in the hospital and his backstory etc.  I like these mini-movie episodes more than the soap opera episodes.  I like when they take their time with the characters.

 

 

[Admin]

liked the midseason finale.  This is probably the first run of episodes where I didn't have any moments of being utterly pissed off by the writing/characters.

 

 

was expecting the Spencer thing, because it was in the comic and things in the show seemed to be heading in that direction.  I liked the way it played out in the show.  Olivia was - eh - sort of a surprise, but just one of those superficial/undetailed characters so - eh.  also they're killing off a lot of the characters that survived in the comic til the debut of the whisperers.  That was pretty impactful in the comics, I hope it's at least as cool in the show (though - probably won't happen at least til Season 8 I'm thinking)

 

 

The last scene was a tremendously satisfying payoff for the first half of Season 7.  Very well done.  I think this was probably the best overall paced batch of episodes in the series, at the very least, it puts me in mind of that first season, which was pretty tight, though still finding its legs as a series.

 

Every other season to me seems to have floundered a bit at the last, and at most has had giant gaps of creative credibility.  I've always liked this show in spite of the flaws.  But this season I feel the show actually living up to its potential in a sustained way for perhaps the first time.

[Lacks_Sympathy]

As I previously mentioned, this season has been the most disappointing season for me thus far. But I will agree that the mid-season finale was pretty good....albeit a little predictable in terms of the character death but whatever....I'll live with it (no pun intended).

 

Anyways, while it's not going in the direction I wanted and for the most part holding steady with the comic's plot...I'm glad that some progress is finally being made. After that horrible Tara/what's his face-centric episode...it finally feels like the show is making some progress and not repeating what it has been trying to bash into our heads (again, no pun intended)...which is basically that Negan is a sadistic maniac the likes of which we haven't seen before, Rick has lost his balls, and introducing us to the other colonies/sanctuaries/safe zones/whatever.

 

Basically at this point, I've spent so many years watching the show that I guess I'm resigned to the fact that I'll keep watching until it becomes unwatchable. The pace is always going to be an issue, just because of the number of episodes that they have to churn out, but as long as they focus on the major characters and make progress with the story/direction of the show then I'll continue to watch.

 

Plus, at some point I'm expecting a Harambe-Walker to appear....so at the very least I'll be invested in TWD until that happens.

[1pooh4u]

 

i felt like when they killed Olivia it was like killing one of those red shirt original Star Trek characters. No big deal she died she was wearing the death shirt.

 

 

I liked the mid season finale overall. I still like the show but must admit that after season 3 I'm finding more episodes I'm not crazy about.  I don't get a lot of criticism about the show as it seems to center around the show being too graphic and violent and also the death of Glenn and Abraham but this season has been drawing a lot from the comic so it's kind of an unfair criticism

[Admin]

olivia dies differently in the comics too, so it's a little different, but still not - like super satisfying because - well they don't really flesh her out too much in the comics or the series either one

[1pooh4u]

 

olivia dies differently in the comics too, so it's a little different, but still not - like super satisfying because - well they don't really flesh her out too much in the comics or the series either one

 

I kinda liked Olivia but knew she was gonna get it cuz you knew nothing about her pre apocalypse

[1pooh4u]

Mid season premiere was last night. It wasn't terrible.  Morgan's still anti killing despite discovering how many people Negan has killed.

So we know how it's going down. Negan will be imprisoned in that jail cell Morgan made in Alexandria.

[molarbear]

I honestly think we may see Morgan mow some people down this season. 

 

I'm more interested in knowing who these other people at the end of the episode are. 

 

Seriously, I know the people of Alexandria didn't really go out in large numbers before Rick and the gang showed up but still.... How is it that there are so many other communities not that far away that are just now being discovered? 

 

Also, how is it that not a single one of them has found Alexandria until recently?  I imagine with all that electricity they have, people would see lights on in windows at night and go "Gee... this large residential area seems to have power, I'm going to check it out." 

[Admin]

I think Rick was smiling at the end of the episode because he was like

"well here's all them guns and people we need"

[Admin]

I honestly think we may see Morgan mow some people down this season. 

 

I'm more interested in knowing who these other people at the end of the episode are. 

 

Seriously, I know the people of Alexandria didn't really go out in large numbers before Rick and the gang showed up but still.... How is it that there are so many other communities not that far away that are just now being discovered? 

 

Also, how is it that not a single one of them has found Alexandria until recently?  I imagine with all that electricity they have, people would see lights on in windows at night and go "Gee... this large residential area seems to have power, I'm going to check it out."

 

My understanding is the communities are way far apart.  The Hilltop, for example, is a historical site up on a hill surrounded by woods.  I would disagree that it would be easy to just see the communities (one from the other) easily.  I believe most of them are fairly far apart in terms of basic travel time.  Kind of like - there are many cities around the one I live in.  I can't see any of them, but if I get in a car and drive for anywhere 10 minutes to a few hours, I'd get to one. 

 

Where I think it tends to stretch credibility maybe is that Alexandria has been scouting pretty far out since its inception (or pretty close) Aaron and others would go out foraging, and also recruiting for the community.  It seems odd he wouldn't have come across the Hilltop or the Kingdom or the Saviors.  But then, maybe he just went out the same route all the time and hit the highway or something.  Though that seems unlikely, as I would think they'd want to do different routes to cover as much ground as possible.

 

The Kingdom and the Hilltop both grow and raise their own food, so it's conceivable they had no real reason to scout too far out, and rather stick close to their own place and just patrol for walkers and such to keep the area clear.

 

The Saviors already do know about the Hilltop and the Kingdom when they arrive on the scene.  It's clear that they don't seem to like to share information.  IE - communities that are under the Saviors' thumb aren't going to find out about each other unless they find out themselves. 

 

It's kind of odd the Saviors hadn't happened upon Alexandria til just now.  and it's odd given Alexandria's ongoing foraging/recruiting that they haven't found any of these places before now.

 

But I'd say there's wiggle room there.

 

According to the comics, I believe Alexandria is Alexandria Virginia, The Kingdom is actually in Washington DC, The Hilltop is out somewhere in Rural Virginia, Oceanside is on the East Coast of Virginia (probably), and the Saviors are probably somewhere in the middle of that area.  It's not been made clear.  but at any rate, most of these places are probably at least 10 miles or more away from each other.  And I would think they mostly probably have walls to keep the light from going out, or don't burn a lot of lights at night so they don't attract walkers.

 

so it's I guess conceivable, more for some groups than for others.  Mainly not sure how the Saviors and Alexandria haven't run into each other before now, or Alexandria hasn't managed to stumble onto one of these other communities with all the trips they take to forage and look for people.

[Admin]

Mid season premiere was last night. It wasn't terrible.  Morgan's still anti killing despite discovering how many people Negan has killed.

So we know how it's going down. Negan will be imprisoned in that jail cell Morgan made in Alexandria.

 

in the comic

they end up taking Negan prisoner, someone else takes over the Saviors though, and all that plays into future storylines, in the comics right now Negan is basically fighting on Rick's side. but a lot of things happened between their first encounter w him and Lucille and him actually joining their side

 

 

but the show doesn't always follow the comic.  So even though I marked it as a spoiler, doesn't mean it'll go down that way in the show.

[Admin]

this episode I actually kinda started to like Gregory.  Even though he's an asshole, he has some of the best lines, the actor is really good, and it'll be sad when he inevitably gets kilt by stuff.  It's kind of hilarious in a way that - like Rick and his group are all "we're gonna take on the Saviors" and yet they hit a brick wall with one slimey bureaucrat at the Hilltop.  And he's not even that good a bureaucrat.

 

He's such an interesting character.  Like he's a coward, but he's a coward with enough balls to say no to Rick's face.  Even Ezekiel had trouble doing that.  Gregory was just like "hm lemme think about it - no."

[Admin]

I'm also thinking this new group encountered at the end, might be a TV alternative-dimension variation of Magna and her group.  it seems to have that vibe.  And Magna would probably have tons of weapons around.  Maybe like if Magna formed the Militia before the Saviors storyline finished on her own.  So it'd be like The Militia in the comics, only Magna would have formed it on her own, and it's a separate community from the others.

 

 

[viperxmns]

Whenever Jason Douglas is on-screen now I'm just like, 'ah, Lord Beerus'

[Admin]

Whenever Jason Douglas is on-screen now I'm just like, 'ah, Lord Beerus'

 

Tobin is another one of those non-fleshed out characters that seems interesting to me.  He's kind of a simple character, but he's had a handful of really great scenes that he's pulled off wonderfully.  Like the stuff with Carol and then the stuff with Rick when he's trying to explain Alexandrians to him.  He's also a character that doesn't have to speak or even have any arcs to hold the screen.  Just seeing him in the background, you kind of feel like there's an actual character there and not just a throwaway filling space til he serves his actual purpose by dying dramatically (which is actually probably the case, since it's TWD, but still, he brings a nice gravity to the role).

[molarbear]

My understanding is the communities are way far apart.  The Hilltop, for example, is a historical site up on a hill surrounded by woods.  I would disagree that it would be easy to just see the communities (one from the other) easily.  I believe most of them are fairly far apart in terms of basic travel time.  Kind of like - there are many cities around the one I live in.  I can't see any of them, but if I get in a car and drive for anywhere 10 minutes to a few hours, I'd get to one. 

 

Where I think it tends to stretch credibility maybe is that Alexandria has been scouting pretty far out since its inception (or pretty close) Aaron and others would go out foraging, and also recruiting for the community.  It seems odd he wouldn't have come across the Hilltop or the Kingdom or the Saviors.  But then, maybe he just went out the same route all the time and hit the highway or something.  Though that seems unlikely, as I would think they'd want to do different routes to cover as much ground as possible.

 

The Kingdom and the Hilltop both grow and raise their own food, so it's conceivable they had no real reason to scout too far out, and rather stick close to their own place and just patrol for walkers and such to keep the area clear.

 

The Saviors already do know about the Hilltop and the Kingdom when they arrive on the scene.  It's clear that they don't seem to like to share information.  IE - communities that are under the Saviors' thumb aren't going to find out about each other unless they find out themselves. 

 

It's kind of odd the Saviors hadn't happened upon Alexandria til just now.  and it's odd given Alexandria's ongoing foraging/recruiting that they haven't found any of these places before now.

 

But I'd say there's wiggle room there.

 

According to the comics, I believe Alexandria is Alexandria Virginia, The Kingdom is actually in Washington DC, The Hilltop is out somewhere in Rural Virginia, Oceanside is on the East Coast of Virginia (probably), and the Saviors are probably somewhere in the middle of that area.  It's not been made clear.  but at any rate, most of these places are probably at least 10 miles or more away from each other.  And I would think they mostly probably have walls to keep the light from going out, or don't burn a lot of lights at night so they don't attract walkers.

 

so it's I guess conceivable, more for some groups than for others.  Mainly not sure how the Saviors and Alexandria haven't run into each other before now, or Alexandria hasn't managed to stumble onto one of these other communities with all the trips they take to forage and look for people.

 

 

I'm not familiar with that region of the Country.... I'm just going to assume they're all in really good shape or they've learned how to fast travel to be able to occasionally walk between compounds in a day. 

 

I'm just saying, Alexandria has power.  I've heard nothing of a blackout at night so I assume people have lights on and such.  I know the wall is pretty tall but it doesn't look tall enough to cover the upper windows of the houses.  If you're out scavenging at night you're going to see the lights and have questions. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Distortedreasoning]

 

I'm not familiar with that region of the Country.... I'm just going to assume they're all in really good shape or they've learned how to fast travel to be able to occasionally walk between compounds in a day. 

 

I'm just saying, Alexandria has power.  I've heard nothing of a blackout at night so I assume people have lights on and such.  I know the wall is pretty tall but it doesn't look tall enough to cover the upper windows of the houses.  If you're out scavenging at night you're going to see the lights and have questions.

 

it can't be that far apart considering that it looks like they can make it in under a day between all areas.

the whole, saviors not spotting the alexandria camp until ricks group got there is dumb. especially considering how often we saw parties from both groups running into each other. as if alexandria was just lucky all that time before rick got there. kinda of a stretch for me.

 

rick totally screwed alexandria over once he got there though. worst case scenario with negan is that he finds out about the camp and he maybe lucilles 1 or 2 people and subjugates the rest of them. but under rick we've had a whole bunch of them die pointlessly because of ricks bad decision.

 

beginning of s6 with that giant zombie horde he should have just fortified the town and defended the place. same with the wolf attack, a bunch of stupid drama causes most of ricks group to go out of town leaving them wide open for a wolf attack.

 

i cant remember if this happened before or after but a doctor in any sort of apocalypse setting is the most important person you can have. dont kill him. sure he was a wife beater but you still going to need him. i mean for crying out loud the town has a psychiatrist! very easy to just separate them for some time and have him get some counseling until he gets better.

 

next is the encounter with negans scouting parties, sure those go over bad but theres no reason to launch a full on assault when you dont know much about them. they successfully attacked one of the saviors camp and manage to get on negans shit list. the time between this and the fateful encounter with negan, they let their new doctor go to a scout run and she gets killed! multiple members of ricks group get captured. again splitting off the best fighters in alexandria.

 

finally they have to get maggie over to hilltop to see their doctor and the group is unsurprisingly out manned and out gunned. they should have only sent one or two people instead of everyone going at the same time. at this phase, they could have been training people of alexandria in survival and combat to prepare them for negan. but nope, rick gets captured and he loses 2 more people in the most brutal fashion and becomes negans dog. abe's death is on rick but glens death is on daryl.

 

s7 is a bit less dumb but only because negan stopped that shit  >

lets see, so far my complaints with ricks group arent that bad. he is still the leader of alexandria but he is having trouble getting the core group to be on the same page. most of them want to fight out while rick and sa few others are trying to not cause any trouble. eventually they all realize that they must revolt which leads us to where we are at now.

 

 

[1pooh4u]

I honestly think we may see Morgan mow some people down this season. 

 

I'm more interested in knowing who these other people at the end of the episode are. 

 

Seriously, I know the people of Alexandria didn't really go out in large numbers before Rick and the gang showed up but still.... How is it that there are so many other communities not that far away that are just now being discovered? 

 

Also, how is it that not a single one of them has found Alexandria until recently?  I imagine with all that electricity they have, people would see lights on in windows at night and go "Gee... this large residential area seems to have power, I'm going to check it out."

Alexandria is surrounded by a wall, though it's obvious there's a community within, how nice and the amenities are less obvious.

[Admin]

Alexandria and DC are fairly close together.

 

Mostly I've seen them drive.  Sometimes walking part way (from what I recall an undefined fraction of the distance, so they may well have already driven most of the way who knows).  But mostly I've seen them drive.  They drove to the Kingdom.

 

Morgan and Carol also drove at least part way toward the Kingdom.  Carol I think ran out of gas was it?  And Morgan came part way with Rick and then they split up.

 

The drove most of the way to the Hilltop I think before disembarking and trying to make it the rest of the way on foot.  The Hilltop must be closer to Alexandria than the Kingdom.  But still not super close.  It seems like it'd be close enough maybe that one could make it in a really long walk but can't say for sure. 

 

Oceanside they drove.  Heath and Tara were out foraging in a truck when she ended up crossing paths with Oceanside.

 

The new place they drove to.  They took cars following Gabriel and ended up surrounded by whoever the new people are.

 

The Saviors I've pretty much only seen in vehicles going from place to place to collect their tributes.  other than that, even encountered randomly they usually seem to be on motorcycles or in vehicles when away from their home compound/outposts.

 

So I don't think they mostly walk between these communities, I think they mostly drive or ride horses (as cars become less useful as gas/fuel becomes more scarce in the comic).

 

Even in the comic now they're on horses all the time to get from community to community.  So I think they mostly drive to get to each others' places.

[Distortedreasoning]

haven't they shown that people can walk to and from these settlements in a matter of hours?

my memory is really fuzzy on that but aside from when they had to take maggie to hilltop, it seems like distance is ever an issue.

[Distortedreasoning]

any idea on who those people were that ambushed rick at the end?

[Admin]

haven't they shown that people can walk to and from these settlements in a matter of hours?

my memory is really fuzzy on that but aside from when they had to take maggie to hilltop, it seems like distance is ever an issue.

 

not that I recall.

 

when they took Maggie to the Hilltop they drove quite a distance actually, further than they should have had to because the Saviors kept blocking the roads.

 

 

[Admin]

any idea on who those people were that ambushed rick at the end?

 

I have a theory that it was a souped up version of Magna's group.

 

it could be a completely new group. 

 

but the encounter had a "magna-like" feel to me. 

[molarbear]

Alexandria and DC are fairly close together.

 

Mostly I've seen them drive.  Sometimes walking part way (from what I recall an undefined fraction of the distance, so they may well have already driven most of the way who knows).  But mostly I've seen them drive.  They drove to the Kingdom.

 

The drove most of the way to the Hilltop I think before disembarking and trying to make it the rest of the way on foot.  The Hilltop must be closer to Alexandria than the Kingdom.  But still not super close.  It seems like it'd be close enough maybe that one could make it in a really long walk but can't say for sure. 

 

Oceanside they drove.  Heath and Tara were out foraging in a truck when she ended up crossing paths with Oceanside.

 

The new place they drove to.  They took cars following Gabriel and ended up surrounded by whoever the new people are.

 

The Saviors I've pretty much only seen in vehicles going from place to place to collect their tributes.  other than that, even encountered randomly they usually seem to be on motorcycles or in vehicles when away from their home compound/outposts.

 

So I don't think they mostly walk between these communities, I think they mostly drive or ride horses (as cars become less useful as gas/fuel becomes more scarce in the comic).

 

 

I'll give you the Kingdom but I don't believe it's far from Hilltop because Daryl has no problem walking there.  (Granted, Daryl is a proven badass at this point)

 

The Hilltop argument I see what your point but, when the Saviors blocked the road repeatedly and caught them all we have no idea how much they had progressed and a prego Maggie had no walked to the Hilltop from that point. 

 

Tara went back on foot when she escaped from Oceanside.  Granted maybe they didn't feel the need to show the passage of time, but, she got across the bridge and it was daylight.  When she gets back to Alexandria... it's still daylight.

 

I'm not expecting anyone to have all the answers, these are just small fallacies that bug me in a show I otherwise really enjoy.

 

That last part about the gas/fuel becoming scarce.  They may have mentioned it in the show already but I missed it, have they ever given an idea of how much time has passed since the outbreak started?  Do they do so in the Comics?

 

I'm only asking because I was wondering if Gas/fuel was hard to come by because it was scarce or it had simply gone bad. 

 

 

[molarbear]

any idea on who those people were that ambushed rick at the end?

 

They reminded me of that weird Amish cult from X-files back in the day

[molarbear]

Alexandria is surrounded by a wall, though it's obvious there's a community within, how nice and the amenities are less obvious.

 

We've seen that at least some if not most of those houses are two stories tall. 

 

That wall is tall, but it doesn't look tall enough to block the windows on a two story house.  That and, light pollution is almost non existent at this point. 

 

Think of it like being in a plane at night, you're 20-30,000 feet in the air but you can still see lights on the ground, imagine being on a hill with a semi view of Alexandria at night... Candle's don't burn as bright as a bulb and neither do lamps, you're gonna know that they have some kind of power source to their places. 

[Admin]

The gas thing I haven't heard them make much mention of in the series, but it's been mentioned several times in the comics.  And in recent issues of the comic, you almost see no one in cars anymore, they're all on horses.

 

time passage-wise I think they're intentionally vague.  I know in the comics, there are sometimes gaps of months between stories.  I'm sure the same is true in the series that there are timejumps.  But the impression I get is that its more an imprecise idea.  There are a few episodes (like tonight's) that actually have to jump backwards in time a bit to flesh out the story.  Then some episodes are cliffhanger/back-to-back continuity wise.  Most episodes, even those progressing the same story, I think aren't quite defined enough to always say exactly how much time has passed between episodes.  Some seem to be taking place right after the previous one, and then others seem to take place after a significant passage of time.  Still others you're not quite sure.

 

I think it's a good show.  But it can be sloppy with its timelines and use of time.

 

But a lot of art and entertainment sort of treats time that way.  Makes use of it where it wants (with artsy flashbacks or flashforwards etc), but when it becomes a potential problem, they just dismiss it as an element.  Or try to.

 

Overall I'd say TWD does a fairly decent job with its timeline partially due to its nerdroots.  But I wouldn't call it a precisely kept timeline.

[Admin]

Also I'd forgotten that the Scavengers are actually not a new group, they were technically the comic's version of the Wolves.

 

The Wolves were a new group, but basically, what they did was more or less sort of the same thing that the Scavengers did in the comics.  The Scavengers were bad guys in the comics, and they hit the story about the same time in the comics that the Wolves did in the series (give or take).

 

But the Scavengers in the series are a much larger group than they were in the comics, with many more characters, and they have an entirely different leader.

 

so for all intents and purposes, I'd say it's basically a different group.

 

The Wolves were sort of introduced as this "new thing" when actually the really weren't perse.  They were sort of the Scavengers redone for TV.

 

The Scavengers are actually (aside from the name) nothing like anything seen in the comics.  So they're actually more like an entirely new group for TV.

 

Kind of an odd little shellgame going on there.

[Admin]

Also this episode - liked it.  But didn't get me too excited.  I like Eugene getting screen time.  The series tends to suffer when they separate the cast, but also that makes the payoffs that much sweeter when they all come back together.

 

The thing that I got most excited about was the preview for next week, in which they found the fairgrounds (or seemed to).  Which foreshadows something super sinister down the road if the show does it the same way the comics did.

 

Otherwise, I loved the stuff with Dwight, Eugene, Sherry and Negan's Wives and even Doctor Carson.  Nothing exciting, but I guess I don't need that every single episode. 

 

Negan is still an effective ultimate bad guy looming over everything.  Every scene he's in, you never know if he's telling the truth, lying his ass off, going to extend a reward to somebody, beat their head in, or both.

 

Kind of a low note as an episode, but I think low notes are okay, and necessary.  There was a lot of good drama and character stuff this episode.

[molarbear]

 

Otherwise, I loved the stuff with Dwight, Eugene, Sherry and Negan's Wives and even Doctor Carson.  Nothing exciting, but I guess I don't need that every single episode. 

 

Negan is still an effective ultimate bad guy looming over everything.  Every scene he's in, you never know if he's telling the truth, lying his ass off, going to extend a reward to somebody, beat their head in, or both.

 

 

I got the idea from the note sherry left behind  and the whole "We always joked you'd show up and save the day with pretzels and beer" that Dwight was possibly planning on showing up and running off when her when they showed him leaving a bag of pretzels and beer in the house. 

 

I don't know how i feel about Negan.  I don't know if he's really well written, Jeffrey Morgan is a really good actor, or it's a combination of the both.  I want to hate the guy, I mean he's clearly evil, but, the way he acts in the show I honestly get the vibe that Negan thinks, in his head, that he's doing the right thing and his actions are justified. 

 

 

[Admin]

I think Negan, as a character, is a dude who got way lost, who tried to find his way back via his own sense of order, which got deferred by a kind of debauchery that came with being "in control" of things.  I think he was somebody who didn't quite have the balls to kill himself, but wanted to, and kind of took that out on the rest of the world.  But also he had this thing stuck in his psyche about how - like certain things should never be allowed to happen in the world.  All that got caught up in a sense of momentum that twisted it into what he is now.

 

I honestly don't think it's the best conceived character, and elements of it do kind of seem a bit two-dimensional and/or created after the fact to justify/change the focus of it or something along those lines. 

 

It sometimes feels like "Okay here's a bad guy" and then after that they were like "oh but why is he like this? let's figure that out now that we've had him do all this crazy ass shit".

 

Not sure if that's the case  or not, but there are enough threads there to pull their fat out of the fire I think regarding - like character evolution/motivation etc.

 

I think what, for whatever reason, people seem to fail to connect with in other people or in fictional characters is that notion that - in any journey, there's a possibility of getting lost.  It can happen to anybody.  But also once lost, there's a chance they'll find their own way back, or somebody or something else will help them find their way back.  I think too often people think to linearly in terms of "If you're lost, you're just lost so bye".  It doesn't work that way in life, so - I'm not sure why they seem to think it works that way in fiction, whether it's a person writing it or people reading it.

[Admin]

I liked the Morgan stuff this episode.  I felt like the whole Morgan thing was being kind of badly handled.  This episode I felt justified wading through that.  It touched on Morgan's whole history, which was necessary to bring everything home.  This episode for me was kind of a lot of what the series does, which is  - they get a character that's not quite fleshed out as it could be, flounder around with it, and then really hit hard with something truly great.  Either that or they just kill it off so they don't have to deal with it anymore.

 

But when they do the former, it's usually pretty rewarding to me at least as a viewer.  Especially the stuff with Morgan and Carol I've found to be fairly disjointed and poorly presented.

 

But I really loved all the Morgan and Carol stuff this episode.

 

I would deduct points for Richard, I feel like his character was pretty poorly handled in the last few episodes.  The ideas weren't bad, the arc wasn't bad, the performances are decent, just the mechanics of baking that into an episode seem to be where things fall apart to me.  That and

Benjamin's almost comically inevitable demise, which was almost annoying in terms of predictability/bad writing.

 

 

Overall I would say the episode is a perfect example of TWD in that the basic premise was amazing, the bits about Morgan almost reverting back to "clear" was fantastic.  The overall plot is fine, the acting is great.  But the basic writing holds me back from being elevated as much as it could be.  The scripts make too many lazy sacrifices that I think ultimately bring the whole work down.  So, in spite of tremendous ideas, plot lines, characters and performances, the episodes never quite take off fully.  I think that's mostly because of - just holes in teh basic script writing.  Some gaping, some gnawing.  But most episodes tend to have a lot of them.

 

But also most episodes tend to have enough great stuff that it can, if not quite ever be elevated to it's optimal entertainment level, can at least elevate it beyond those creative lapses and gaps.

[molarbear]

 

 

 

I would deduct points for Richard, I feel like his character was pretty poorly handled in the last few episodes.  The ideas weren't bad, the arc wasn't bad, the performances are decent, just the mechanics of baking that into an episode seem to be where things fall apart to me.  That and

Benjamin's almost comically inevitable demise, which was almost annoying in terms of predictability/bad writing.

 

 

 

 

 

I called that! 

 

I even told DBZ4ever about it.  As soon as Carol wouldn't take him with her I knew he was going to die 

[1pooh4u]

I'm shippin' Darryl and Jesus and btw Jesus's gay reveal was super weak last week

[Admin]

Sonequa Martin-Green was pretty fucking amazing this week.  She doesn't get a lot of shots at the screen as Sasha, but she absolutely killed it.

 

Dwight is another example of - like how they can sacrifice a lot for a "twist" from the comic to the tv show that ultimately bites them in the ass. 

 

In the comics

Dwight killed Abraham

and it didn't quite play out exactly as they had it play out on the show.  Also in the show he

killed Denise

.

 

the difference: 

A warrior killing a warrior in a battle vs a sneering snickering asshole killing a pretty cool character

, who was also a doctor, who was struggling in this new world and actually starting to make it.  So - at least in my view, they've completely sacrificed Dwight to what amounted to a relatively pointless twist.  Not only that, but the only reason they saved Abraham was so that he could be sacrificed to another pointless twist

(two victims for Lucille instead of one)

.

 

Dwight is a decent enough character, and again, there's no fault in the performance.  But that choice to

kill Denise

the way that it was done, was just fairly stupid.  And again the only purpose it served was a sort of relatively pointless M Night "ooo what a twist" moment.

 

Now the writers are stuck with an audience that demands retribution, but at the same time a roadmap that suggests that Dwight becomes not only a member of the group, but a key member of the group

(as he does in the comics)

.  So they've got to somehow dance around Dwight Vs Daryl, which will ultimately weaken their strongest character, as he's not going to be able to take retribution because that's not where the story goes in the comics, and while they do indeed throw in pointless twists from time to time, they mostly have followed that map.

 

It's kind of just the domino effect of bad writing.  When you have a major scene that's half-baked like that, it's not just about that scene.  It has an echo through the rest of the show/episodes.  Because, yeah, you've got you're momentary twist, but after that you have to untangle the audience reaction and putting the story back on track.  Because even though you tossed in your dumbass pointless plot twist, you'd pretty much always intended for the story to go that direction anyway. 

[1pooh4u]

I'm disappointed with the not so great writing this season.

I hope the finale is good. This show tries to appease its comic fan base too much.

Just cuz it made for a good comic doesn't mean it works on TV.

[Admin]

I think the difference between the comic and television is how - like the comic literally has one writer and one artist forever more or less.  So they have longterm story plans and stuff.

 

TV each episode is directed and written by different people.  And even though there's a showrunner and people checking for character consistency and stuff, it's just harder to consolidate many different opinions about who a character is or what the story should do when if there's a lot of cooks in the kitchen.

 

I think the result of that, any tv show (from the crappiest waste of airwaves to the best shows ever produced) will be somewhat uneven from season to season, episode to episode, and even scene to scene.

 

This season of TWD I think has had some of the best writing of the series.  But the whole season hasn't had that.  For every spectacular little bit of writing, there are a couple of really badly assembled or executed scenes or storylines.

 

And I really don't think it's quite as huge a deal as people make it out to be, it's just that the show is so high-profile, that it's open to more criticism just due to its omnipresence on the cultural landscape.

 

I think a lot of the criticism is correct, some of it is undeserved.

 

At its core and in its day-to-day production, it's very good work creatively and technically. 

 

But everything is flawed, and sometimes the better something is, the more glaring those flaws seem.

 

so creative and commercial success is something of a double-edge sword that I think probably bothers somebody like Scott Gimple more than an entity like AMC, who are just happy to cash the checks.

[Admin]

also not in the least bit surprised to see Dave Erikson gone from Fear the Walking Dead.  That show fell completely apart after the first 6 episodes.  It's kind of everything that's wrong with TWD magnified 100x, plus new problems that TWD never had.

 

I was kind of expecting FTWD to be gone after next season.  But, by dismissing the showrunner, it means probably the show will be back for a 4th season with new blood, which we'll have to see.

 

I thought with TWD, Darabont did a great job, with Mazzara things started to go south a bit, but then Gimple came in and things got a bit more interesting.  Though I think if Gimple has a fault, it's that the mix is a little too rich and overreaching for a mainstream audience, and the overreach sometimes interferes with establishing an overall mood/feel for the series.

 

With Fear, Erikson seemed super focused for the first season episodes.  But then just - the second their feet touched the ground for season two, it was in the dumper almost from the very first scene, and while there are still some cool things in there each episode, the series as a whole has never pulled itself together for me.  That second season was pretty stinko overall.  And I say that as a fan of the show, I like the show, I like some of what was done creatively, I think it's technically sound.  But the storyline for season two was a mess.  Almost unwatchable.

 

The show definitely needs new blood.  It wasn't even like a steady decline for me (like TWD under Mazzara) but just went from really awesome one season to a mess the next.  Not sure what happened there.

 

But I hope whoever the new showrunner is, they'll pull it all together.  TWD and FTWD are such giant departures in the realm of Television, I'm sure it's super difficult to find a good showrunner for them that's not going to either collapse the franchise into mundanity or overreach and spread the concept too thin.

 

 

[Admin]

so season finale was fucking awesome.

 

go shiva.

[molarbear]

I was watching the Cubs opening day game and missed it, then the DVR fucked up and only recorded 41 mins of the show for some reason so I only got to the part

 

 

Where the weird lady that leads the amish cult from X-files shot Rick and kicked him down

 

[Admin]

there's a lot more after that.

 

like another 20 minutes or so of all out war.

[Admin]

we got to see

shiva eat at least three people's faces.

[1pooh4u]

Sasha was the most bad ass character on the show. She went out like a boss and I will miss her.

[Distortedreasoning]

i watched the mid season premiere but just skipped watching everything till last night.

 

i dont have many complains, and thought the final episode was good. warning tl;dr

 

 

all of the mid season was just rick trying to team up with all the other settlements.

i liked that he reached out to those weirdos in that junktown, but hated how they betrayed rick. how did negan learn of them in the first place? didn't like that they betrayed rick after he did all that work for them and earned their trust. probably the only thing i didnt like in the season finale. it was awesome to see the tiger bite some faces off. nice seeing abraham back in the flashbacks as well.

 

hated rosita for most the season. she reminded me of sasha in season 6 when she was in full crazy mode before she got together with abraham. though i will say sasha went out pretty hardcore. rosita is probably the most annoying character this season.

 

i liked seeing both carol and morgan going more towards the violent side. morgan had already killed to save carols life at the end or begining of season 6/7 but he did that to save a life. i guess richard was jeopardizing the lives of his community and was responsible for the death of benjamin, but morgan murdered him in brutal fashion. so brutal in fact that i thought he was going to revert back to his insane self. just didn't seem very in character for morgan to do. sadly i think he had to do it.

 

carol had been living on her own for all of the mid season but i think seeing that they still need her made her realize she should fight again. it wasnt all the sudden and took all season long and several events to get her back. morgan telling her the truth was what she needed to hear.

 

maggie had some good development as well. she is becoming a pretty good leader. gregory might be the official leader but you can tell that people listen more to maggie. greg knows this too and is scared. in the finale you dont see him which i think it means maggie was the one that got hilltop to help.

 

i think its safe to say father gabriel has redeemed himself from when he first started. he was good all of season 7 and proved himself quite capable. even though the group he seek out eventually betrayed rick, but it was the right move.

 

eugene had good character development. the man is a coward but he is doing what he needs to survive just like he's always done. and he is getting treated much better than he was when he was with ricks group. and negan is making much better use of the mans talents. someone like him is very valuable and negan is making him feel that way. at the same time, he can never get too cozy, seeing as how he's seen negan kill a doctor. he still cares about ricks group but i thought rick was going to blow him up 

 

dwight is a character i hope dies. i think they are trying to make us feel sorry for him but i can't help but hate him and hope he dies.

 

i still dont see how negan struck a deal. the saviors dont work that way. remember its either die, or become negans property. despite them striking a deal with the saviors, they still seem like wild cards to me. that alliance between them and the saviors didnt  seem that strong. season 8 should be the ending of this negan arc. it what we are headed for. but even though negan has the soldiers, rick has everyone else.