Master-Debater131

Genocide, by its very definition, is the deliberate killing of an ethnic people or nation with the express purpose of destroying that nation or ethnic group. WW2 saw multiple Genocides against multiple peoples in Europe and the Pacific. Turkey against Armenians, Genocide. Turkey, and many others, against the Kurdish people is Genocide. We've seen multiple Genocides in Africa over the last 20 years as well. Whats happening in Gaza is not a genocide. It is a war against a hostile enemy being waged by a nation that was attacked. Israel notifies civilians of the places they are going to attack, they send in aid and help control aid into Gaza even when those aid stations come under attack by Hamas. They have historically refused to attack known Hamas C&C centers because of the risk of civilian casualties. They go to lengths that no other nation on Earth goes to to try and protect civilians, and then they are still told it isn't enough. What is happening is unfortunate, but it doesnt even come close to the level of a Genocide. Its the end result of a war against a group of people who purposefully try and increase civilian causalities for the media.

You literally just complained about Israel not giving people enough time to evacuate, and now are saying they are engaging in mass relocation.

It was by far the most dangerous case for him though. Both legally and politically. Legally, because as you said, he couldnt make it go away. But more importantly for him, politically. If Georgia proved that he committed election interference it would go right to the heart of his "rigged" crap as well as lead a lot of credibility to the whole "danger to democracy" thing. No one really cares about if he paid a hooker hush money or held classified documents. Election interference and threats to democracy register, the other stuff doesnt.

Georgia was always the case that presented Trump with the most danger. Now it looks like that risk is all but gone before the election. Fani literally fucked around, and now shes finding out. The Appeals court wont even start to hear this until August, which means that his trial in Georgia is pretty much on pause through the election. Theres a chance Trumps case could proceed, but that would require Fani to leave the case on her own. And thats not about to happen. Even if it does, that opens up a whole set of new questions and problems that will delay, if not end, the trial as it stands.

Equating the war in Gaza to the Holocaust is absolutely laughable on its face. And calling it a "genocide" is just beyond ignorant of all historic and current fact. It makes for great slogans and catchy chants, but its just devoid of a basis in reality.

Speaking of Holocaust Remembrance Day

Israel has been saying for weeks that they were going to go into Rafah. They've set up refugee camps and told people to go there. Theyve dropped leaflets showing where the safe zones are and texted everyone saying its time to go. Egypt has also been told this was coming, and Israel has worked with Egypt on plans for this. None of this should be a surprise at this point.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2024/05/07/sen_fetterman_im_a_senator_and_im_not_exactly_sure_what_trumps_trials_are_about.html Sen. Fetterman: I'm A Senator And I'm Not Exactly Sure What Trump's Trials Are About "BRET BAIER: So, in Pennsylvania, your state, if you look at our latest battleground polls on the economy former President Trump is really up big on President Biden, when it comes to the economy alone. Who do you trust on the economy? Why is that? How do you see that? And how do you see the election playing out in November? SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN (D-PA): Well, I don't really actively follow the polls. But, you know, I have been having that kind of a conversation now since 2016. You know, I identified that there is a risk here that Trump can actually win and most people thought it was going to be a joke and I'm like no, no. I spent too much time across the state and I realized that something is happening. And then I had that conversation in 2020 that, you know, some of those polls had Biden up at 5 points. I'm like, you know, you can't have 25,000 people show up at an event and that's not a five-point race. And now '24 is going to be competitive, it's going to be close. Always has been and always will be. And I do believe Joe Biden is going to win but anyone who that does not Trump seriously do that at their own peril. And he has a connection in Pennsylvania and we have to make sure that we do whatever we can. BAIER: So you see this trial up in New York today. He is saying it's all falling apart. If you look at polls and I know you don't look at polls, there are a lot of people who look at that trial and say it may not be fair to him. How do you see it and how do you see the former president positioned for the election? FETTERMAN: Well, I mean, like I'm a sitting Senator, and I am truthly not even exactly sure what his trials are about. How many of them, whatever. I mean, I think it's -- you know, most voters in Pennsylvania agrees it's a very stark choice as well. And so if I'm not following it that closely, I don't think a lot of the voters there and they are going to, you know, in six months from now they're going to have the chance to vote. I do believe Joe Biden is going to prevail in Pennsylvania. I do believe that Pennsylvania does pick the president. But it's going to be very close. And it's going to be incredibly competitive. I'm not really sure that most of people's perceptions of Trump and all the things that are going on in the trial are already baked into that stock price. " Fetterman isnt wrong. People arent really paying attention to the trials, they are paying attention to their lives. In the full interview Fetterman touched on a whole lot of different things, including his continued support of Israel. The headline about the trials is whats going to take all the oxygen though.

The Rafah operation has started, and the IDF now controls the Rafah crossing with Egypt. This follows the warnings sent to civilians to evacuate the area because an operation was about to take place.

Theres, sadly, a large number of people who deny the holocaust now. Theres been polling done showing that a significant number of people dont think it happened. https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4349815-poll-americans-holocaust-myth/ 1 in 5 young Americans think its a myth according to this poll. Thats a horrifyingly high number. Post WW2 Germans were faced with the images of what the Nazis did. Now when faced with the same sort of imagery people say its fake.

Sadly your probably right. If the literal videos of the attack shot from the perspective of the attacker wont change minds, nothing will.

Then how do you combat this? How did it even get to this point? They wont accept that the videos that Hamas themselves videoed and bragged about, so how do you possibly pierce that bubble?

How do you even combat that? They are shown the actual videos taken by Hamas themselves, and they are saying they are fakes. If you saw any of the leaked videos, or what got posted on telegram, there's no way you can view them and think that they are fakes. Israel almost has to release everything they have at this point. Put the entire unedited, and unblurred, video out there and let these people try and deny it.

Found a better video of the incident. Im willing to admit that when I am wrong I am wrong. And apparently, I was wrong. Showing them the videos doesnt pierce their bubble. They are so far gone and so beyond antisemitic that even being faced with the videos of the atrocities on October 7th isnt enough to get them to even slightly moderate their position. Theres probably no better than a 50/50 chance that these antisemitic morons even believe the Holocaust happened at this point.

US says Hamas briefly seized 1st aid shipment that entered Gaza via reopened crossing https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-says-hamas-seized-first-aid-shipment-that-entered-gaza-via-reopened-erez-crossing/ "Hamas managed to seize a major shipment of humanitarian aid that was delivered to Gaza from Jordan earlier this week, US State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller said Thursday, after the supplies were the first to be shipped to the enclave through a newly reopened Israeli border crossing. Secretary of State Antony Blinken viewed the aid on Tuesday just before it departed from the headquarters of the Jordan Hashemite Charity Organization in Amman bound for the renovated crossing into the Gaza Strip at Erez, which was largely destroyed by Hamas during its October 7 terror onslaught that sparked the ongoing war." Its strange how this just keeps happening. Its almost like Hamas is the single biggest impediment for the people in Gaza. This follows the many other instances where Hamas has taken the aid first, sometimes by shooting civilians who are trying to get that aid. Thankfully, this aid has been recovered and can get to civilians.

After game 1 I actually thought we were going to win the series. We struggled in game 1, and gave up 7, but everything looked fixable. And boy did we fix it Now its on to either the Stars or Knights. Both of whom I freaking hate.

Not everyone in Gaza is a Hamas agent. However, Hamas is supported by a large chunk of the population. What is nice though is we are seeing videos of people in the areas where Hamas has been eradicated cheering and saying that Hamas is the reason for all of their problems. So very clearly there are people that know that Hamas are the problem. They just cannot openly speak when Hamas is in control because they will be executed by Hamas. Thats the thing people seem to really be forgetting, or ignoring. Hamas isnt just a thread to Israel, its a threat to the people of Gaza. The best way for Gaza to have peace and prosperity would be for Hamas to be eliminated.

They are using ground troops and intelligence though. When ground troops stormed the hospital that Hamas was using as an HQ people screamed bloody murder. Theres only so much they can do, and they cant go into the tunnels. The US learned that lesson in Vietnam, you dont chase the enemy into a tunnel that they have fortified. As far as Netanyahu goes, not disagreeing at all. He is likely going to end up in jail at some point. But replacing him isnt going to really change things. Poling shows that the clear majority of Israelis want the IDF to pursue this war to its end and eliminate Hamas.

So then what would you suggest Israel do to defeat Hamas? You've already established that they use human shields, so how do you defeat them knowing that fact?

Your right on one thing, it is beyond defense. They transitioned to offense to finally eliminate Hamas. Your dead wrong on Israel being the one doing the never again though. This is a war, bad shit happens in war. Its sad there is collateral damage, but that is entirely at the feet of Hamas.

I guess I take "never again" fairly seriously and recognize what is happening right now in context with the bigger picture and countless historic examples. October 7th radically changed the calculus in the region. Before that it was well known that Hamas would lob some rockets into Israel, the Iron Dome would swat them down, and no one would be hurt as everyone continued their day. Living with the fear of a rocket attack, but knowledge that the Iron Dome and robust bomb shelter infrastructure kept people safe was an acceptable balance. When Hamas decided that they were going to para glide into a music festival, breach the fences, rape, murder, kidnap, and torture innocent civilians everything changed. Hamas radically altered the status-quo and Israel was forced to respond. Now instead of knowing the status-quo and being able to live with it Israel is faced with an enemy that they cannot accept being on their border. Any nation in the world would respond in the exact same was as Israel if they were attacked like this. They would respond and defeat the enemy, and people would loudly cheer for it. Hell, we have an exact example of that going on not that far from Israel. Israel responding to the attack by Hamas is the same as Ukraine responding to the attack by Russia. The only difference is that Israel has overwhelming military superiority that they are putting to full use. Fundamentally they are the exact same things. A nation defending themselves against a hostile enemy who wants to wipe them out. The only reason that Israel gets as much hate as it does is because its a Jewish nation and antisemitism runs extremely deeply in very large swaths of this, and other, countries. The people who support Ukraine but not Israel are at best hypocrites, and at worst antisemitic. People are choosing to ignore some of the pretty terrible stuff that Ukrainian troops have done while focusing on only that with Israel. Neither army or country are exactly clean, but both are perfectly just in fighting their wars. Edit: And just to be clear, I am not calling you antisemitic. There is absolutely a massive undercurrent of antisemitism in the anti-Israel crowd, but I dont think you are part of that undercurrent.

Correct. For the last 15-20 years Gaza hasnt exactly been a great place to be. Its likely not a coincidence that Hamas happened to take over at the same time. Its almost like after Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza in 2005 Gaza has become a threat to Israel itself and has had to be treated as a hostile neighbor simply for national security reasons. Its almost like these sequences of events over the past 15-20 years have led directly to where we are today with Israel finally decided they cant live next to a neighbor whos sworn existence includes eliminating Israel.

She is such a dumb bitch its insane. She would rather burn the GOP to the ground because she doesnt get her way 100% of the time than try and have a party that functionally governs.

And none of that would have happened if it wasnt for Hamas deciding to attack Israel on October 7th. Hamas started a war, bad shit happens in war. None of this, absolutely none of it, wouldnt have happened if it were not for Hamas.