UN Chief Asks Nations to Provide Military Assistance to Haiti

[scoobdog]

While the world's attention has been directed toward Europe, the situation in Haiti has steadily deteriorated.  The Haiti government publicly requested military assistance, a call repeat by the UN Secretary General.  For reference:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/07/americas/haiti-international-military-assistance-humanitarian-crisis-intl/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/10/americas/haiti-unrest-unsg-intl/index.htm

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/14/americas/haiti-gangs-sexual-violence-intl-latam/index.html

Naturally, this is exactly the situation the US hoped to avoid given it drags up a long and documented history of failed intervention in Haiti.  Putting boots on the ground for any reason, even as UN peacekeepers, is fraught, but, at the same time, the US owes the Haitian people some security assurance because of their reckless treatment in the past.  Needless to say, this has some highly worrisome parallels to what happened in Cuba, which does play into the calculus.

[matrixman124]

I mean do you remember when we tried to intervene in Cuba? It didn't go too great. I think direct intervention will end in disaster personally.

[scoobdog]

14 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean do you remember when we tried to intervene in Cuba? It didn't go too great. I think direct intervention will end in disaster personally.

It cast a long shadow, as it should.  I think this situation is somewhat different in that committing troops isn't the first or best option for military assistance, especially given the unmitigated success of our assistance to the Ukraine.  In fact, we don't really even need to provide weapons (though they are requesting small arms); military intervention could include logistics assistance that offers no forward facing interaction.

[SwimModSponges]

Let's annex them.

[scoobdog]

8 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

Let's annex them.

Hence the reference to Cuba.  If anything, America has learned that annexing foreign countries is a losing proposition.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

It cast a long shadow, as it should.  I think this situation is somewhat different in that committing troops isn't the first or best option for military assistance, especially given the unmitigated success of our assistance to the Ukraine.  In fact, we don't really even need to provide weapons (though they are requesting small arms); military intervention could include logistics assistance that offers no forward facing interaction.

I mean this is a civil war. There is going to be violence. And we totally caused this with our meddling in Haiti. Ukraine is unique because it's a sovereign state invading another sovereign state. Here, it's an internal power struggle between Haitian factions. Do we have the right to insert ourselves?

[stilgar]

35 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean this is a civil war. There is going to be violence. And we totally caused this with our meddling in Haiti. Ukraine is unique because it's a sovereign state invading another sovereign state. Here, it's an internal power struggle between Haitian factions. Do we have the right to insert ourselves?

Short answer: no.

 

Long answer: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[scoobdog]

12 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

I mean this is a civil war. There is going to be violence. And we totally caused this with our meddling in Haiti. Ukraine is unique because it's a sovereign state invading another sovereign state. Here, it's an internal power struggle between Haitian factions. Do we have the right to insert ourselves?

It's not a question of that, given the Hatian government explicitly asked for help from the international community and not just the US.  The draft the US is drawing up for the UNSC charter is for a rapid response force which, coupled with last weeks announcement that it was too early to discuss any kind of "US security presence," would suggest that the intent is for an international UN peacekeeping force which would presumably, be made up of partly or wholly of other member state peacekeepers.

Also, this isn't a civil war, at least not in the proper sense, for the simple reason that there doesn't appear to be a coalition in place between the various "criminal gang" factions that are opposing the government.  It more closely resembles the war that the Mexican government is fighting with the cartels, which would be a strong indication that any kind of involvement by the US would be at best unnecessary.

[scoobdog]

32 minutes ago, stilgar said:

Short answer: no.

I agree completely.  We didn't help them the last time we intervened, and we won't help them this time, even if we attempt to with the best of intentions.

[scoobdog]

That being said, there are really two issues here:  whether the US should be involved. and whether anyone else should be involved.  The former is an obvious no, but, as @matrixman124 pointed out, the latter may also be highly problematic.  Intervening at all in the internal affairs of a government that is failing (and was failing even before the assassination of the president) could be a losing proposition.

[SwimModSponges]

3 hours ago, scoobdog said:

Hence the reference to Cuba.  If anything, America has learned that annexing foreign countries is a losing proposition.

I'm sure it would work out better this time.

For real though, i think we're getting to that point as a global society in which nations begin to consolidate. 

Just saying, we should start picking when the pickin's good.

Edited October 17, 2022 by SwimModSponges

[scoobdog]

4 hours ago, SwimModSponges said:

I'm sure it would work out better this time.

For real though, i think we're getting to that point as a global society in which nations begin to consolidate. 

Just saying, we should start picking when the pickin's good.

Imagine turning Haiti into another Tennessee.