Why haven't you joined a socialist organization?

[NewBluntsworth]

There are more than a couple, built and run by people like you. You post on the internet about how we need socialism and more robust alternative political parties, why aren't you engaging with these groups in your real life?

[SwimOdin]

We aren’t as motivated as your average racist.

[NewBluntsworth]

5 minutes ago, SwimOdin said:

We aren’t as motivated as your average racist.

Most racists aren't members of explicitly racist organizations, so I'm not sure what you mean.

[SwimModSponges]

They're honeypots run by conservatives in order to get lists of names.

[matrixman124]

When was the last time socialist organizations did anything beyond fundraising and wasting people's votes?

[NewBluntsworth]

16 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

When was the last time socialist organizations did anything beyond fundraising and wasting people's votes?

What like, recently? Well this summer they organized and led the abortion protests, crowds of thousands of people in cities all across the country, if we're talking national-level stuff. 

Not every socialist org is a political party, there are orgs like the DSA who frequently support Democrats. It's all about finding what's right and what makes sense for you, wherever you are. 

It's a good question that you're asking, my counter is - do research on who is active around you, find out when they meet or when their next event is to show up and find out for yourself.  I can name things local socialist orgs near me have done. If you can't, maybe it's because you aren't looking into them, and/or maybe it's because they're relatively new and small and need people like you to come along and help them grow so that we can have more power and do more. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

12 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

They're honeypots run by conservatives in order to get lists of names.

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

This is what a conservative who didn't want people to join socialist orgs would say. Good way to scare people into staying home and keep diffusing all their energy into their internet-connected devices. 

[NewBluntsworth]

16 minutes ago, SwimModSponges said:

They're honeypots run by conservatives in order to get lists of names.

I mean just use a fake name? Like. Nobody is going to ask to see your ID. Show up and find out who and what these things look like for yourself if you actually worry about this or believe this to be true based on no personal experiences, just your isolated rural paranoia.

Worst case scenario, it'll help solidify this belief in your mind with something more concrete. Best case... anything other than that. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[matrixman124]

16 minutes ago, NewBluntsworth said:

What like, recently? Well this summer they organized and led the abortion protests, crowds of thousands of people in cities all across the country, if we're talking national-level stuff. 

Not every socialist org is a political party, there are orgs like the DSA who frequently support Democrats. It's all about finding what's right and what makes sense for you, wherever you are. 

It's a good question that you're asking, my counter is - do research on who is active around you, find out when they meet or when their next event is to show up and find out for yourself.  I can name things local socialist orgs near me have done. If you can't, maybe it's because you aren't looking into them, and/or maybe it's because they're relatively new and small and need people like you to come along and help them grow so that we can have more power and do more. 

My problem with the left is that there is basically no unity. You have many different organizations fighting against each other, allowing the Democrats and Republicans to be unchecked in the duopoly.

What really fucking blows my mind is that there is a lot of talk of solidarity and there are certainly performative demonstrations of solidarity, but I haven't seen any real solidarity for a united front against the right and center. And I feel this makes the left generally ineffective. There needs to be consensus and lessening of ego in leadership if they want to be taken seriously. Until then, I really can't take them seriously as a force for change.

I think if we really pushed Ranked Choice Voting and had a united progressive party, that would change things a whole lot.

[scoobdog]

2 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

My problem with the left is that there is basically no unity. You have many different organizations fighting against each other, allowing the Democrats and Republicans to be unchecked in the duopoly.

What really fucking blows my mind is that there is a lot of talk of solidarity and there are certainly performative demonstrations of solidarity, but I haven't seen any real solidarity for a united front against the right and center. And I feel this makes the left generally ineffective. There needs to be consensus and lessening of ego in leadership if they want to be taken seriously. Until then, I really can't take them seriously as a force for change.

I think if we really pushed Ranked Choice Voting and had a united progressive party, that would change things a whole lot.

It's not realistic to expect that kind of unity, though.  Hating Republicans isn't going to be enough like it is for Republicans hating Democrats, and there are lot of groups on the left with vastly different agendas sharing the one common goal of not being erased out of existence by Republicans' destructive policy goals.  Frankly, if more people did sign up for socialists groups, they might find that Socialists' agenda is more adaptable and inclusive than they might have been led to believe.

[matrixman124]

1 hour ago, scoobdog said:

It's not realistic to expect that kind of unity, though.  Hating Republicans isn't going to be enough like it is for Republicans hating Democrats, and there are lot of groups on the left with vastly different agendas sharing the one common goal of not being erased out of existence by Republicans' destructive policy goals.  Frankly, if more people did sign up for socialists groups, they might find that Socialists' agenda is more adaptable and inclusive than they might have been led to believe.

There is a unity point - watching out for each other. Making sure we don't starve or go homeless. That should be it.

[scoobdog]

Just now, matrixman124 said:

There is a unity point - watching out for each other. Making sure we don't starve or go homeless. That should be it.

That isn't much of a basis for unity, either.  There are many different approaches to achieving those goals.

[NewBluntsworth]

35 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

There is a unity point - watching out for each other. Making sure we don't starve or go homeless. That should be it.

"We" don't have that power though! "We" are mostly barely just scraping by! The cops do evictions if you don't pay your rent and throw you in prison if you steal food. Piddly little mutual aid can only ameliorate so much peripheral suffering. Wtf are you talking about? 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[scoobdog]

51 minutes ago, matrixman124 said:

There is a unity point - watching out for each other. Making sure we don't starve or go homeless. That should be it.

I should say, though, that there is more unity than you let on.  Third parties still remain mostly sidelined, and, like it or not, Biden one with an extremely high turnout despite not being much more than a better-than-the-alternative option.  The same principles should apply to both sides of the issue.  If mainstream Republicans can stomach voting for openly bigoted, racist, and misogynistic candidates (well, any time besides now) than it stands to reason that Democrats can do the same with candidates they disagree with that are far less distasteful.

[NewBluntsworth]

6 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

My problem with the left is that there is basically no unity. You have many different organizations fighting against each other, allowing the Democrats and Republicans to be unchecked in the duopoly.

And I feel this makes the left generally ineffective

Really unclear on this. What left orgs do you see "fighting against each other," idr know what you mean by that. The left is small and we have zero power but we're not fighting each other? Like what do you mean. Are you talking about like people who vote third party vs Democrats vs people who say voting is dumb period and we need a leftist revolution...? Those are disagreements people on the left have among each other (plus tubby rich mansion-dwelling, economic status quo-preserving/social justice-focused Democrats mixed in) but "we" are not fighting each other, in any way that affects or reinforces our position of having zero leverage over the mechanisms of power. Like yeah I say voting for right wing Democratic party is bad and counter-productive because it is and I believe that, but that doesn't have any effect on conditions or questions like why Democrats aren't more left wing or why the left has no power. Those are all decided far above our heads. 

6 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

What really fucking blows my mind is that there is a lot of talk of solidarity and there are certainly performative demonstrations of solidarity, but I haven't seen any real solidarity for a united front against the right and center. 

Yeah, there is no united front bc we don't have a viable left wing party in this country bc all anyone wants to do is vote for the right wing Democrats forever bc every single election is too important to ever vote for a socialist "who won't win this time"

6 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

And I feel this makes the left generally ineffective. There needs to be consensus and lessening of ego in leadership if they want to be taken seriously. Until then, I really can't take them seriously as a force for change.

Wtf are you talking about? Consensus on what? What leadership? What leaders? Whose egos are you even talking about here? Like I'm literally asking, be specific, name names or orgs/leadership titles, bc I'm just at a complete fucking loss as to who or what you're even referring to. "The socialist left" is literally less than 100,000 people if we're adding up and including all the members of all these little socialist orgs like CPUSA and FRSO and PSL and all the dues-paying do-nothing people in the DSA (Not saying everyone in DSA is this way but it's what I was when I was in the DSA and it's what most of their tens of thousands of dues paying members are, people who give them money but otherwise don't do anything)

We're not in a place to be taken seriously bc there are so few of us. Hence this thread, I want to know why that is when our ideas are popular and yet almost everyone who I largely agree with politically wants nothing whatsoever to do with even considering joining a socialist org/ left wing third party for themselves and trying to see how far we can go using these vehicles. Nobody has any interest in that. You clearly don't, and are hostile to the idea of trying to add your time and energy and your thoughts and ideas and perspectives to the growth of these organizations that are literally all we as leftists have to work with right now.

Why is that?

 It sounds like you're saying "I want these things I believe in to happen magically and just come into existence, but hmmmph they're not here, so I'm not going to do anything to try to bring about the change that I impotently post on the internet about wanting to see."

Do you just totally not even think it's possible, is it cynicism and pessimism, or do you not really care that much bc you personally are comfortable and fine and feel your future is secure so fuck everybody else, do you just not care bc there's only so much time on earth and you want to spend yours on bread and circus and relaxing after work, or maybe bc you're so busy working and taking care of the people in your life that you don't know how you would find the time, or is it because you think the Democratic party is good enough and has the potential to deliver us *anything* so let's just roll with what we've got and hope to God all the evil and the neoliberalism shakes out of the Democratic party which is totally captured by capital because they're already on the ballot and trying to challenge that with anything else is too hard?

Bc those are all answers and they are all valid and understandable. Obviously I think they're counter-productive to what we both claim to want and am happy to try to change your mind about any of them, but I'm not here to be judgemental about this right now, I'm genuinely just asking - why? Why not try to build what you claim to want to see? Because you know somebody has to, right? You clearly have ideas, why not share them in person with like minded people such as yourself who are trying to bring them into reality? 

 

6 hours ago, matrixman124 said:

think if we really pushed Ranked Choice Voting and had a united progressive party, that would change things a whole lot.

WHO THE FUCK IS "WE" ?? 

I'm sorry but who is the we doing the pushing for this thing that the duopoly and all of our enemies are existentially opposed to? How are we pushing, what is the strategy, what are the tactics, what is the vehicle for making this happen? 

Is "we" left-leaning Democrats, what does "pushing for it" look like, posting about it on the fucking internet? Ranked choice voting is a very good and very cute and adorable idea but that's all it is and all it ever will be if none of us ever want to get off our asses and do any goddamn thing to remake this world in our image. 

So, I'm asking you -- why haven't you joined a socialist organization? 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[NewBluntsworth]

Like just to be clear on this, if you're a capitalist -- just say that. If you are happy with capitalism and think it can be worked through and improved upon and saved from itself by "voting for better Democrats" and "holding them accountable" somehow and "pushing for ranked choice voting" so that we can tax billionaires a little more or w/e and everything will work itself out then just say that, that absolutely answers the question of why you wouldn't be interested in joining a socialist party. If that describes you then frankly you have zero business there, so just go on and feel free to enjoy your life of voting for Clinton's and Biden's and posting on the internet about how you wish they were "further left."

These are not the people who I am interested in hearing from. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by NewBluntsworth

[Ginguy]

6 hours ago, NewBluntsworth said:

🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡 🤡

This is what a conservative who didn't want people to join socialist orgs would say. Good way to scare people into staying home and keep diffusing all their energy into their internet-connected devices. 

Dude you know he doom posts this kind of bullshit for attention.

You're the 🤡 here for falling for it.

 

[NewBluntsworth]

On 9/29/2022 at 5:00 PM, Ginguy said:

Dude you know he doom posts this kind of bullshit for attention.

You're the 🤡 here for falling for it.

 

I believe @SwimModSponges was being sincere, I think that is truly a concern for him. It's definitely a concern for some people anyway and it's absolutely something I have considered and continue to think about myself, so I have no issue responding to it in good faith. 

 

You literally have "Republican political consultant" on your resume, as I see it there's only one clown in this room Cringuy. 

 

Spoiler

buttworms for sale...get your buttworms for sale...

 

[SwimModSponges]

Hey.

Keep my dick outch'all's mouths.