sports WWE Discussion Thread

[Admin]

I liked that this year there'll be another Money In the Bank ladder match for the Women's Division.  that should be amazing.

 

When Corbin first got called up, I wasn't sure he was ready, he seemed a little rough around the edges in the ring, and not totally comfortable on the mic.  But he had a good character for that, so that wasn't as big an issue.

 

I think since then he's made big strides and I feel like tonight was really the first time I saw him in there with literally three of WWE's absolute best, and I think he rose to the occasion.  He was as good as anybody in there.

 

Nice to see the Fashion Police still being featured.  I would like to see literally anyone win the WWE tag championships away from the Usos, because I hate their turnt up promos.

 

The MITB match should be amazing this year.  Both of them should be.

[Admin]

ima do extreme rules predictions since it's coming up this weekend:

 

Sasha Banks and Rich Swann vs. Alicia Fox and Noam Dar:  going to go with Banks/Swann.  I just think with WWE it's all about Raw, and then SD and then NXT and THEN 205 Live.  Banks is the highest ranking name in the match ergo - Banks/Swann win.  The Fox/Dar thing isn't a great fit anyway.  Fox deserves something somewhere.  She's good.  But she and Dar have zero chemistry.  Don't get me wrong, Dar's not bad either.  But Swann is amazing.  and Banks is moneh.  So - I would say, both in terms of who I think WWE will have win is the same in this instance as who I'd like to see take it, which is Banks/Swann.

 

Neville Vs Austin Aries:  Personally, I think Neville's run as champ could continue and I'd be happy with that.  I'm torn in terms of predicting how WWE will play it though.  Because - they are leaning toward more international stars as title holders.  Yet there have been persistent rumors that 205 Live ratings are very poor.  They may, in that case, be thinking about changing things up, and Aries is a proven commodity.  I think I'm going to go with Aries taking the belt.  though personally I'd rather see Neville retain.

 

Hardy Boyz vs Sheamus and Cesaro:  I'm not sure I care anymore?  My guess is WWE will toss it to Hardy Boyz retaining.  some very small part of me (getting smaller all the time) would like to see Sheamus/Cesaro win the belts back.  I would love to see a Hardy split.  But I have to admit, it's probably too soon for that.  Hardyz have just kind of gotten up and running again, and I'm guessing they're already moving the merch.  I just don't see WWE swinging it the other way.

 

Alexa Bliss Vs Bayley:  While WWE seems to recognize Bayley's fanbase and (again with the merch) merch chops, the writers just don't seem to like her.  Conversely, they seem to LOVE Alexa Bliss.  But Bliss had a promo that utterly bombed last week, and silence = death.  I'm gonna say WWE will stick with Bliss.  Again, I'm not sure I care enough anymore who wins.  Raw especially really seems to be able to suck out my ability to pull even for performers I previously liked a lot.

 

Dean Ambrose Vs the Miz:  I think they're going to toss it to the Miz.  Again, don't have a personal preference here.

 

Fatal Five-Way Elimination Match for #1 Contender:  Bray Wyatt Vs Seth Rollins Vs Roman Reigns Vs Finn Balor Vs Samoa Joe.  Of these five - and it's a weird pick maybe, but I have to say, I would love to see Brock Lesnar Vs Samoa Joe.  That would be pretty epic.  Storywise, I've been feeling lately like they're trying to pave the way for a Finn Balor win, and a Balor/Lesnar championship match (which would also be pretty awesome).  But also - let us not forget Vince McMahon's undying boner for Roman Reigns.  I think if Balor wins the match, I'm pretty sure he'll beat Lesnar.  Which would mean Reigns would have another stall in that grand plan to install him as WWE champion, because - if Reigns were to win the belt from Balor, that would just make him even less popular I think than he already is.  If they're setting up Reigns, then either a heel would have to win the fatal five way, and ultimately face Reigns after defeating Lesnar, or Lesnar would just beat whoever it is, and face Reigns later down the road (say, at Wrestlemania).  The one thing I do feel momentum-wise is that they seem to be building anticipation around Balor.  And it feels more like "Mahal" type anticipation.  Like - the kind of anticipation that leads me to think that they would push Balor here and now to win the fatal five-way unless they were planning to take him all the way and have him actually win the title.

 

So I'm going with Balor as my pick to win it.  Joe is my personal pick (the one I'd actually like to see win it).

 

 

[BUU8800]

I couldn't bring myself to watch either this week. Oh well.

[Admin]

Watching NXT.

 

Ciampa's big heel turn promo opened the show.  It was a little uneven as promos go.  But he hit the right notes at the very end of it I think, that line "I promise you when I return, I will be the most dangerous son of a bitch in NXT".  I think I'm going to like this character turn for him and it sounds like a role he could really go places with.  So happy about that.

 

announce team is still weaksauce.

 

Roode promo was kinda  nothin. 

 

Okay - WWE needs to get away from this whole "cruiserweight" thing forever and ever and ever.  The brand doesn't even have "cruiserweight" in the title (205 live).  "cruiserweight" sounds like a kids division.  It has never had any traction with the WWE fanbase.  They've got some of the most dynamic performers in the world, and they're killing themselves with their ongoing insistence on this recklessly unfortunate brand choice.

 

Pete Dunne Vs Danny Birch  for the UK Title.  Decent match.  I like how a lot of these matches have a really old school feel, while at the same time they always have plenty of innovation.  Brief promo by Dunne after the match.  Dunne is definitely a rising star.

 

Velvetine Dream promo.  I dunno man.  Once again - it feels like a performer and character that creative is super high on.  But it just, so far isn't getting over.  Who knows, maybe a little persistence will sell it.  I think part of the problem with WWE is they can't always discern real talent from just hyperactive commitment.  The character feels very over the top, but the performer doesn't seem there yet.  I mean - my guess is backstage he's really sold this character.  It seems like when there's a mic in his face, he chokes up a bit.  And again, that's kind of what NXT is for.  So some of these performers were will have fits and starts and stops.  Atm I think Velvetine Dream is going to be a much harder sell than anybody thought.  Given his on-air ring debut and this short but disjointed promo.

 

Andrade Cien Almas vs jobber.  Jobber wins, Almas throws a fit.  This match served no purpose at all.  It does nothing for Almas.

 

Billie Kaye and Peyton Royce promo, they're re-imagining the training room, interrupted by Ember Moon, who they immediately start harassing, until the trainer comes up and has her sign her release to return to competition, which shuts them up.  Nice promo.  And Kaye/Royce are another fantastic argument for a women's tag division in WWE.

 

clip of Hideo Itami messing up the locker room after his NXT loss, picking a fight with Kassius Ohno.  followed by Ohno and Itami apparently patching things up in the parking lot with a handshake and the announcement that Itami will face Oney Lorcan next week on NXT.

 

Kassius Ohno and Roderick Strong Vs Sanity (Alexander Wolfe and Erik Young) w/Killian Dane.  I love watching Wolfe.  He does well in the ring, but he's just amazing at physical acting.  HIs movements and his expressive face add to everything he does.  These guys are all good.  Icing on the cake - when Killian Dane attempts to get involved, No Way Jose with a run in to save the day.  Strong with the pin on Young. 

[Admin]

also NXT has updated their opening with some new faces

 

[Admin]

Watching Extreme Rules

 

Opening emphasizes "unpredictability" so - hey maybe we'll see some shake-ups.

 

Miz Vs Ambrose:  Miz won it as expected, but it was a great match, those two can really put on a show.  And they're like that with just about anybody they get in there with.

 

Banks/Swan won that, as expected.  The surprise was the chemistry between Banks/Swan, which was kind of a random pairing almost.  It's funny too, because they've really been pushing Fox/Dar as a couple and they just have zero chemistry.  Strange how things go sometimes.  Rich Swann is one of my favorite WWE performers.

 

oh wow Elias Sampson is going to perform. I thought he was gonna do a song, but maybe it's a spoken word?  cuz he's - talking a lot.  I love how much the crowd hates him.  And I love his obliviousness to it.  I will admit, this song is going on a little too long.  sooo - no run-in.  No interruption.  Just - a sampson song.  Okay.  Well - that was - pointless.  anyhow.

 

Bayley Vs Bliss:  Bliss smashes Bayley into tiny bits.  As expected.  So far - that unpredictability thing is FALSE ADVERTISING MAN.  Thought the match was kinda boring.  Just played out this basically inevitable thing that I knew was gonna happen, and was super short on top of that.

 

Hardy Boyz (what're they in their 50s now?) vs Sheamus and Cesaro:  Hey actually pretty good cage match.  These guys are kind of an odd combination but they do work well together.  Sheamus and Cesaro actually won the belts.  huh.  Well there's that unpredictability kicking in.

 

Hey - so I notice Hogan is back in the WWE Network promo.  So these rumors of his return to the company are possibly true. 

 

Neville Vs Austin Aries:  Okay, don't get me wrong, Aries is okay.  I just don't see him as being on Neville's level really.  Or a lot of the other 205 Live guys.  But he does great promos, and he's fairly solid in the ring.  So - there's that.  I'm not sure what they're doing with these Cruiserweight matches at the PPVs.  They have some of the most dynamic performers in WWE history in that division.  And yet they always manage to find the dullest possible representation of that division for the PPVs (well - usually it's Ares Vs Neville actually). 

 

I would think that - starting a new "brand" and such - you'd want these PPV matches to be the best possible "bring the house down" type matches.  They should be stealing the show.  We need some freakin Cedric Alexander Vs TJ Perkins.  Rich Swann Vs Gran Metalik.  Akira Tozawa Vs anybody.  It almost makes me glad they didn't sign Kota Ibushi, they would have done nothing with him.

 

Fatal Five-Way:  Wyatt Vs Rollins Vs Reigns Vs Balor Vs Joe:  I feel like Reigns is - all these guys are pulling off some complicated stuff.  And whenever Reigns takes over it's always like "oh and another clothesline from Reigns" or "oh SPEAR by roman reigns!"  anyhow - It's a great match as expected.  But hey, Samoa Joe actually wins it.  Joe Vs Lesnar are you kidding me?  that's going to be fucking awesome.  I would even tune into an unfortunately named ppv like "great balls of fire" to watch that.

 

so maybe not a great PPV.  But a solidly good PPV.  A couple of surprises, a couple of head scratching moments (the sampson thing was like wtf wwe?).  some disappointments.  Pleasantly surprised to see Joe win the night.  Also Sheamus and Cesaro winning the tag titles.

 

I had fun watching it.

[BUU8800]

Still can't bring myself to watch the product, but Joe winning is admittedly interesting.

[Admin]

Roode's promo on Roderick Strong was great.

 

The confrontation between Ohno and Itami was amazing.  Those close ups, you could see anguish in Ohno and hatred in Itami.  Turning Hideo Itami heel is working really well I think.

 

Disappointed they kind of fed No Way Jose to Killian Dane. 

[Admin]

actually very much into the Joe/Lesnar feud. 

 

looking forward to Money In the Bank because I just have always liked that gimmick, even though odds are good that I'll be disappointed by the results.  Though WWE seems to be a little less predictable lately.  So we'll see.

 

on NXT Asuka and Nikki Cross tore the fucking roof off the place, taking the fight out of the ring, backstage, through the dressing rooms, through the tech area, almost into the booth and back out again.  Fight ends with both crashing through a table off the tech platform.  At one point Cross dunked Asuka's head in a giant cooler full of ice water.  It was crazy fun.

 

Definitely the match of the week for me.

[Admin]

watching Money In the Bank right now. (spoilers)

 

Women's ladder match is awesome as expected.  No weak links.  Wasn't sure Tamina quite belonged going in, but she was a great balance in the match and I think she did indeed perform as well as anybody else in there.

 

would not have predicted the winner, but the ending was perfection.  Rare in WWE that you can pull off a surprise, that sort of makes sense to the ongoing storyline, and also effectively propels existing characters forward effectively.  I think this did that for said winner

Carmella

 

 

 

basically as carnage and the various competitors lie around the ring, James Elsworth climbed the ladder, retrieved the briefcase, and presented it to Carmella.

 

 

The roof was off several times during this.  The gauntlet is thrown.  Let's see if the rest of the card can meet this bar.

 

and New Day Vs Usos every bit as good as I expected also.  Actually strike that, even a little better than I thought it was gonna be.  Great match.

 

 

Usos retain, I did expect that

 

 

Didn't really get a chance to post predictions ahead of time, but I was thinking actually they might toss the win to Tamina, as she was the only real outlier originally in the match.  Barring that, I would have thought maybe Charlotte or Natalya.  Way wrong there.  None of those people won.

 

I would have picked the Usos to retain just because creative seems high on them atm.  Usos I think are good champs because they actually have really good ring chemistry with just about anybody.  Not a fan of their new promo style, which is just to yell stuff really loud and hyper like.  Which seems to really work on Vince I guess.  And he's maybe the ultimate audience.  So I like the Usos a lot as ring performers, their promos lately are bafflingly dumb.

 

okay next match:  Naomi Vs Lana.  It'll be neat to finally see Lana in the ring.  She's got a tough first match, it being a PPV and against possibly the most solid performer in WWE (and there are a lot of super embarrassingly talented performers in WWE right now).  Could be fantastic.  Could be one of the worst matches ever booked.  Can't wait to see.

 

I like the sort of aggressive style they have going with Lana.  I think it adds a layer that allows her to smooth over bumps in her ring work with the performance/acting skillset, which she's good with.  Also she's in there with Naomi, that's helping her a lot.  I think she looks pretty good so far.

 

Quick prediction, I think Naomi will retain.  Just because they need a face after

Carmella's win

of MITB, even though pretty much no one on the roster was happy with that.  So she won, but she's well positioned coming off that as a sort of "heel's heel" if you will.

 

Lana is pulling off some really nice moves in there.

 

 

Carmella

pulls a *psyche* cash-in not moment.

 

Naomi retains.  But Lana did well and

Carmella's

interruption was nicely inserted.

 

Well plotted and executed match.  So far no duds on the card.

 

Fashion Police segment leads Breeze and Fandango to the ring later to confront their mysterious attackers.

 

Mike & Maria Kanellis crash the event to announce their addition to the Smackdown Live roster.  Their segment is pretty hilarious and definitely looking forward to more of that.

 

before the Orton/Mahal match, they introduce a bunch of legends in the crowd, Greg Gagne, Larry "the Axe" Hennig, Baron Von Raschke, Sgt Slaughter, Cowboy Bob Orton and Rick Flair.

 

Jinder Mahal Vs Randy Orton.  WWE has done a masterful job of packaging Mahal as a champion post-facto.  And Mahal has risen to the occasion promo-wise.  I really don't much care about this match and it's THE championship match of the night.  That says something about where the WWE Championships are atm.  Waaaay up in the air instead of acting as anchors for the brand.

 

Prediction:  Mahal will retain.  Just as - like I couldn't see any other way out of the Mahal push than to go the whole route and make him champ, I just don't see Orton taking it back.  It just wouldn't do anything for the brand.  There's no "value added" to it.  Not that WWE doesn't routinely make baffling decisions with their storylines, but I think Mahal will remain champ for awhile until he can be knocked off by a Cena or some other WWE mega-giant star type.  And Orton is sort of off and on that.  But he's never really reached that "Cena/Rock/Stone Cold" level.

 

In spite of my jadedness for matches like this, it's pretty good.  It's a good solid WWE style match, but there's enough innovation sprinkled in that keeps me interested.  And as with the women's championship match, this one is also well-plotted.  Singh Brothers interfere, get ejected by the referee, but on the way out, they mess with Orton's dad, leading to a Randy Orton beatdown of the bros, eventually he gets back in the ring but the worn out Orton is easy pickins for Mahal.

 

Don't know how to classify that one.  Good match.  But just - don't care.

 

Next we have Fashion Police Vs mystery opponents.  Is it Gallows and Anderson?  the Revival?  The Ascension?  Who could it be??  Who?  WHO?  who?

 

Turns out it's the Ascension.  Which could be cool if this was NXT.  But - WWE has buried these two so deep I don't think it matters anymore how good they are.

 

These are actually 4 very gifted ring performers.  This could be good.  But I suspect it'll be short and there won't be much time for anybody to actually make any statements to that effect.

 

Fashion Police pick up the win, which is probably for the best.  Though I would like to see the Ascension start ascending.

 

Hey main event part 2:  men's MITB

 

AJ Styles Vs  Dolph Ziggler Vs Sami Zayn Vs Kevin Owens Vs Shinsuke Nakamura Vs Baron Corbin

 

Prediction:  Corbin.  We'll see how that turns out.  But I think Corbin is the only performer in this match that creative seems particularly interested in pushing atm.

 

Already the match is off to - not even sure if it's a good footing or bad footing.  They seem to be taking out Nakamura right off the bat, having Corbin jump him as his music plays.  So - one of the main attractions for me in this match was to see Nakamura with these other performers in this kind of match.  So already kind of disappointed.

 

aaaand the crowd seems to be chanting for the only performer that seems to have been eliminated.

 

I suppose it's possible they could be saving him for later in the match or something.  We'll see.  But it's pretty standard for creative to just do this to performers they don't know what to do with. And Nakamura has an uphill battle in WWE because creative just will never understand his style, his character, or their own audience enough to capitalize on any of those elements.

 

The match is decent.  But that creative decision hangs over it like a cloud.  Like I said, so far, the only real big cheers/chants have been "NAKA-MURA".  So - rather than an effective plot device, it's been a distraction I think.

 

Finally some Styles cheers. 

 

these guys all work well together.  It's not a bad match.  Just crowd response doesn't seem quite as consistent/full-on as some of the other matches.  They are pulling the crowd along though, and a few times they got them yelling.  The audience seems to be more fully on board I think now.  More Styles chants. They've picked their man.

 

The guys are definitely making better use of the ladder.  I think by now they've pretty much all taken bumps off the top, or near the top, of that ladder.

 

Zayn and Ziggler finally get the "this is awe-some" chant going with Zayn powerbombing Ziggler off the top of the ladder.

 

some Zayn chants now.

 

The match really heats up, just keeps outdoing itself.  This is what I expected, after a weird start, now it's crazy spot after crazy spot and it just keeps getting better and better.  The crowd is definitely behind Styles and Zayn.

 

Corbin alone in the ring, about to climb the ladder and they hit Nakamura's music, he comes back out and the two start going at it.  Again, not sure how much I like this bit, I was really looking forward to seeing Nakamura in there with all the rest of these guys for a good long stretch.  I will say, having seen the match, how amazing it has been and how "full" it has been, it may have been a good idea to remove Nakamura for a bit, as there would have been too much going on, and maybe Nakamura's presence could have been a general crowd distraction or something.  But still then - why put him in the match at all?  Then again, could they have left him out without some kind of backlash? 

 

So maybe I'm seeing the basic logic of pulling him out of it for a stretch.

 

Anyhow - part of what makes me rethink my original criticism is how - like the crowd is CRAZY LOUD for Nakamura.  They're chanting his theme music, it is indeed eclipsing all other things.  So - I guess yeah, I kinda get it now maybe.

 

One by one Nakamura is taking out the other guys.  I still don't see him winning it though.  It's interesting though.

 

Great moment when Styles and Nakamura are on opposite sides of the ladder, they both pause and stare at each other for a moment, then they both climb down, move the ladder and get face to face in the ring.  And still these two put on an amazing show together.  Styles/Nakamura would be a perfect Wrestlemania booking.  More "this is awe-some" chants.

 

This is indeed awesome.  Styles on one side of the ladder, Nakamura on the other, the crowd is THUNDEROUS for both of them.  and last minute, Corbin knocks the ladder over, climbs it, and takes the briefcase.

 

"you could not have a more unpredictable predator become Mister Money In the Bank than Barron Corbin" says JBL.

 

Unless you have a brain in your head and can pretty much see going in that he's the only one in the match that's got any kind of creative push behind him.  Then it's - pretty much predictable.  But still.

 

Great match.  Great evening.  No duds really.  A few dull and/or predictable creative choices going in, but even with that stuff, the matches that contained those elements were still pretty awesome.

 

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

the thing I'm most looking forward to out of this PPV: 

 

seeing more of Carmella and Ellsworth. 

[Admin]

spoilers:

 

on Raw they're building feuds.  Rollins/Wyatt, Balor/Samson, and it looks like Miz finally got his entourage in Curtis Axel and Bo Dallas.  Samoa Joe defeated Roman Reigns, who was assaulted post-match by the returning Braun Strowman.  The biggest leap of the night was the big mystery of who has been attacking Enzo and Cass backstage, which led to Big Show walking off Raw after being falsely accused, the return of Dash and Dawson, and the breaking up of Enzo and Cass (as it turned out it was Cass jumping Enzo and then pretending he was jumped to cover his tracks), with Cass turning heel on Enzo, delivering a scathing promo and then the taking out of the shocked Enzo.

[Admin]

spoilers

 

Ziggler/Nakamura just had a helluva match on the Smackdown.  Some crazyass bumps.

 

Carmella stepped into here "heel of all heels" stilettos very nicely.

 

Nice change of pace Kevin Owens Vs Chad Gable.

 

and Daniel Bryan returns to render his decision on the Women's Money In the Bank controversy.  Kind of surprised at the outcome, he actually confiscated the briefcase and said there'll be another Women's Money In the Bank ladder match next week on Smackdown.  that should be awesome.  Though - during this promo, all the participants are in the ring and you can see all their bumps and bruises.  So - for me great, I get to see another two of these.  But I'm sure the participants will be twice as beat up after the next one.

 

And another nice change of pace Jinder Mahal Vs Luke Harper.  Great to see Harper back.  I miss him and Rowan both.  Match wasn't great, but at least Harper got some air time.  Randy Orton charged in after the match and jumped Mahal.

[Ginguy]

Gotta say RAW was not quite as good this week, though I missed the last hour (watching Shadowhunters, guilty pleasure yeah I know ). Enzo and Cass splitting up is stupid, and teh result of creative not having done anything with the tag team division on Raw. I like the idea of Miz having an entourage. Bo Dallas is on Bo-roids, dude has seriously lost the dough. Any time Roman Reigns gets beat is good by me.

Nia Jax needs to go, she is just ponderous in the ring and going to get people hurt. Pandering hires never work out, send her back to the gym and get a good six months of hardcore training and maybe she'll be able to keep up.

 

 

 

SDL is the winner this week. Ziggler/Nakamura can continue for another year, they work really well together and the matches are genuinely entertaining. I was surprised at Chad Gable v. Kevin Owens, but it was a great match.

 

Baron Corbin stole the show with his showing up, and Luke Harper did a great job against Mahal.

I don't watch PPVs, so anytime they want to redo a PPV main event match it is fine by me, but it doesn't make much sense financially. People don't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free.

 

[BUU8800]

I just saw Mauro's back for NXT. This pleases me...mildly. Better than nothing I guess. Maybe I'll actually watch it again.

[Admin]

I just saw Mauro's back for NXT. This pleases me...mildly. Better than nothing I guess. Maybe I'll actually watch it again.

 

wow cool.  that's unexpected.  And they really really needed him in NXT, which has been floundering announce-table-wise.  I haven't watched NXT yet.  But now I have something to look forward to.

[Admin]

I actually thought Ziggler/Nakamura were a little stiff together the first time around.  But the Raw match was amazing.

[Admin]

Gotta say RAW was not quite as good this week, though I missed the last hour (watching Shadowhunters, guilty pleasure yeah I know ). Enzo and Cass splitting up is stupid, and teh result of creative not having done anything with the tag team division on Raw. I like the idea of Miz having an entourage. Bo Dallas is on Bo-roids, dude has seriously lost the dough. Any time Roman Reigns gets beat is good by me.

Nia Jax needs to go, she is just ponderous in the ring and going to get people hurt. Pandering hires never work out, send her back to the gym and get a good six months of hardcore training and maybe she'll be able to keep up.

 

 

 

SDL is the winner this week. Ziggler/Nakamura can continue for another year, they work really well together and the matches are genuinely entertaining. I was surprised at Chad Gable v. Kevin Owens, but it was a great match.

 

Baron Corbin stole the show with his showing up, and Luke Harper did a great job against Mahal.

I don't watch PPVs, so anytime they want to redo a PPV main event match it is fine by me, but it doesn't make much sense financially. People don't buy the cow if they can get the milk for free.

 

I've noticed lately the do that a lot.  Do "rematches" of the PPVs within the first couple weeks on the regular shows.

[Ginguy]

SDL wins this week with the MitB rematch, featuring James Ellsworth getting a top rope nut shot. Fake, yet still gratifying.

[Admin]

again this week, for me the best matches were women's matches.

 

MITB repeat was good.

 

But for me the match of the week was beyond a doubt the Asuka/Cross Last Woman Standing match on NXT.  They went for about a half hour.  Some incredible shots.  They're amazing together.  And also individually each of them are among the most dynamic performers in WWE right now.  took it in the ring, out of the ring, chairs, tables, trash cans, ladders.  Nikki Cross outside the ring, way up near the broadcast area, set up Askuka on a table and then set up a ladder - this waaaay back from the ring, kind of off to the side of the entrance ramp/curtain area.  Watching the announce team scramble as the two climbed the ladder next to the broadcast table was kind of funny.  Askuka suplexes Cross from the top of the ladder through the broadcast table.  Askuka makes it to her feet just about as the referee reaches 10, winning the match.  Fantastic.

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

raw not bad this week.  I'm diggin the Joe/Brock stuff.

 

 

[Admin]

I also like how they're changing things up a bit match-wise.  Instead of all these 6 man tag matches and five-way elimination whatevers, twice tonight they just went with a one on one match with tons of distractions and interference.  I like that better.

 

Heath Slater Vs Miz was good.  Just for those two.  But then Miz's new entourage was there (Axel and Dallas) and Rhino was there and Ambrose was on commentary.  They could easily have just set up Miz/Axel/Dallas Vs Slater/Rhino/Ambrose.  Which is kind of what they've been doing every single week lately.  But instead they just went with a one on one story, and everybody still got ring time and everybody pulled off something cool at one point or other.  But I don't know.  it just makes a better story to me.

 

Also Finn Balor Vs Cesaro was cool for the same reasons.  Sheamus was there, the Hardys, and then Elias Samson was stalking Balor as well.  That had some awesome spots with all 6 guys.  But the basic story in the ring was still this match between two people.  I like that better than "GM interrupts match to make it a 3 on 3 match between Balor/Hardys vs Sheamus & Cesaro and Samson".  The story dynamic and match dynamic is better with two competitors.  Then the supporting performers are kinda icing on the cake.

[BUU8800]

Rusev comes back to job to Cena in 3 weeks and Lana is humiliated in record time...not a good night for their fans. At least they have each other.

[Admin]

I'm watching it now. 

 

Cena is kind of a mystery to me in that, he really is good.  He's good on the mic and in the ring.  But I still tend to hate him.  I think it has something to do with that sort of two-faced thing of - like he seems to assert himself as the top guy, but at the same time, he seems to be constantly sucking up.  And not in that sort of character suckup way.  Just in a more oblivious "what me? suck up?" way.  Like it's always "god bless amurca" and "I fight for our troops tonight!" and that kind of horseshit. 

 

Also the whole "U-S-A U-S-A" thing was kind of old hat years ago.  And especially in Trump's America I feel like it's just not particularly conducive to audience expansion.  Though with it being July 4 and Cena returning, and the ratings have been sort of on the decline, also battle royal, etc, they may well end up getting a ratings bump. 

 

Styles/Gable was amazing.

 

Tyler Breeze as Renee Young was funny.  I also like what Sami Zayn is doing in his promos.  None of these three is going to get a push or anything out of any of it.  But they're entertaining.

 

I like battle royals.  But they're also a bit sad, because they sort of showcase all the unnecessarily wasted talent WWE has.  Like Mojo eliminating Luke Harper, crowd boos. I'm with em.  And then they're sort of making a big dramatic moment out of Mojo and Ryder meeting in the middle of the ring and I just don't care.  But that's who's getting pushes so there it is. 

 

WWE creative always feels like - it's less about telling a story and more about just pushing a guy, and if he's "successful" (however the fuck that's determined) you get credit for it because you were the person who wanted him pushed.

 

It's kind of like trying to write a screenplay in a corporate boardroom with a corporate structure handling the creative elements of it.  It just doesn't work.  It saps the creativity out of something that requires creativity to make a mark.

 

But also big cheers when Zayn took out Mojo.  I swear to god they pay absolutely no attention to their audience.  I picture the writers room at WWE like - just people trying to like the right person who's getting pushed by Vince and bitching about how the audience doesn't react right to their personal push picks.

 

I'm a little impressed they actually left Dillinger in as one of the final three. Zayn/Styles/Dillinger.  Though clearly, Zayn/Owens always put on an amazing show, and Styles is just plain amazing with anybody.  Styles I think is literally the best they've got right now.  Dillinger is interesting as a darkhorse, but in terms of a killer PPV match, we know for certain that Owens/Zayn and Owens/Styles either one would be crazy good.  But clearly Styles is the favorite.

 

Says something that the audience is so behind Dillinger, because he's in there with two of the most popular WWE performers.

 

Styles wins it. 

 

Pretty decent show.  Not great.  Felt actually like Cena's return put a damper on what was otherwise a pretty good show.  And again, I think Cena is good.  Just his whole schtick is old.  Doesn't matter how passionate or loud or amped up his delivery is, it's just old schtick.  Playing to the relatively safe "U-S-A" thing and talking about his love o' countreh and all that.  I felt like it sucked a lot of the air out of the room right off the bat.

 

[Ginguy]

Missed SDL this week, went to a fireworks display and marched in a parade. It seems like I didn't miss much though.

RAW was good, I'm kinda glad they are doing things with Elias Samson, I think he will do well with Balor.

Reigns needs to go away for about three months. Give him a reset.

 

[Kudasai]

WWE has released Austin Aries

[BUU8800]

Yup, no huge loss. Styles winning the US Title on a house show though? Is it 1989 again?

[Admin]

I think that's pretty cool actually for belts to change hands at house shows.

 

Austin Aries release doesn't surprise me.  He could never pry the title away from Neville, he's not bad, but I think he probably isn't quite eye to eye in the way he sees himself vs the way WWE probably sees him.  It felt like he expected to be top talent, but he didn't seem to want to put anything out there to be that or something.  But there are probably a dozen people I'd rather see in NXT or WWE than Austin Aries.  So not too disappointed personally.  And also I can sort of see the subtext there I think in the disconnect between Aries, how high on the card he probably thinks he should be, and what WWE has room for.

[Admin]

Great Balls of Fire = meh.

 

No truly great matches.  None of them were terrible.  But it just wasn't a PPV quality event.

 

It feels to me like - PPVs like Great Balls of Fire are probably why WWE is struggling ratings-wise.  Clueless booking, no creative build for some of the matches, and just flat-out stupid stuff like "a 30-Minute Iron Man Match for the tag titles".  First of all, a good PPV match usually lasts about 20 minutes anyway.  Secondly - you can't really have an "Iron Man Match" if guys are tagging in and out.  Like the whole point of "Iron Man" is about endurance and being able to go the whole time.  And - you know - tag match.  Sooooo - .  No single combatant is actually in the ring too long before tagging in their partner and taking a nice breather on the ring apron.  It's so utterly dumb that nobody in WWE creative caught this, or challenged or questioned the concept (which is just a nothing stipulation on a fairly poorly set up match, but still, it's dumb and it shouldn't have made it to the card. 

 

So - I would say it felt like it could have been a good big episode of the weekly show.  But definitely lacked any kind of PPV feel.  As a PPV, which is what it was, I'd have to say it was a fail overall.

 

 

[Kudasai]

WWE has cancelled Talking Smack

[BUU8800]

I read it'll still be after PPVs, but still a shitty decision either way.

[Admin]

I honestly think I looked forward to Talking Smack more than Raw lately.

 

 

 

[Admin]

NXT seems to be madly developing talent and hanging onto the status quo as far as top of the card goes for the most part.

 

Looking at the current roster, I think there are plenty of people who could step up.  But from a creative perspective, they just haven't really primed any storylines for moving anybody up.

 

Drew MacIntyre would make a good champion.  But there's no real storyline propelling him with the same velocity of previous NXT champs.  Roode may be there awhile.  As may Asuka and the Authors Of Pain. 

 

The main roster definitely doesn't need any more complications.  So mobility seems a bit capped lately.

 

They may be positioning Sanity to take over for AOP.  And I can't say that the tag division couldn't use some more firepower on the main roster.  So that seems like a possibility. 

 

They also seem to like Killian Dane quite a bit.  And there's always Eric Young in their back pocket.  Aleister Black is pretty cool.  I think he has the presence to pull off a championship run.

 

Askuka seems way overdue for a main roster spot.  But the Women's Division is pretty jammed.  But damn it'd be amazing to see Asuka beat the crap out of Alexa Bliss.

 

Seems like they were trying to position Ember Moon before her injury.  She's back now.  They seem much more tentative now on that front though.  They've got Ember Moon, Ruby Riot and Nikki Cross all sort of jockying for the title.  Seems like none of them quite jump out enough for a title run.  Of the three, Ember Moon seemed the no-brainer.  But Nikki Cross is the one who's pulled off the most incredible matches. 

 

I think Cross/Asuka would be the way to go.  Cross would make a wild champion.  And if AOP ends up in the main roster, with Sanity taking the tag belts, that sort of sets it up for a faction-title reign, which might be interesting for a bit.  With Cross as Women's Champion, Sanity as tag champs, and maybe Eric Young as champion even.

 

Then the next wave could be the sort of disintegration of Sanity with other people taking the belts and eventually Sanity moving up to the main roster as a vengeful unit, or as singles players after the disintegration.

[Jman]

I honestly think I looked forward to Talking Smack more than Raw lately.

 

Blame Vince.

 

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2017/7/16/15978256/talking-smack-cancelled-vince-mcmahon-unhappy-wwe-smackdown

[BUU8800]

 

It'll never happen but I wouldn't mind it.

[Admin]

I think WWE wants it, Punk doesn't. 

 

The only performer I think we'll never ever in a million years see on WWE television ever again forever and ever under any circumstances is Jeff Jarrett.

[Ginguy]

So, what the hell was that Jason Jordan bit? Seriously. RAW can do better than ripping off Maury.

Elias Samson and Finn Balor was awesome, more of that please.

Anytime that Roman Reigns gets walloped is good by me. Strowman and Samoa Joe would be a good rivalry as well since they seemed determined to shove Reigns. (Didn't they learn from Cena?)

 

SDL was alright, I liked the main event, I really like the idea of Nakamura and Styles for the US title.

Women's division is starting to break down, they need to get some new talent in the mix.

Cena, go to Hollywood and maybe do a patriotism match at Wrestlemania/Summer Slam. It really would be for the best.

 

If CM Punk returns, it will be to SDL, and I'm okay with that because he would be awesome with just about anyone on that roster.

It probably won't happen though.

[Admin]

Really loved that Joe/Reigns/Strowman thing.  That was awesome.

 

i miss talking smack 

[Kudasai]

[BUU8800]

So Shane was involved in a mini-incident today. Loved Rusev's tweet about it. He should be champ, not Jinder. Shame Cena's gonna run right through him Sunday, but oh well.

[Ginguy]

What incident?

Also I agree about the title.

[Admin]

watched NXT - the thing I like most about NXT I think is apparent in the No Way Jose vs Cezar Bononi match.  Bononi beat Andrade Cien Almas, instead of just feeding the roster to the big dude, No Way Jose actually won the match.  But then afterward, Almas beat down Bononi some more.

 

And it was win-win-win.  Instead of in WWE where - like they would just feed Jose and Almas to Bononi and that would be that - we have a series of matches where they all each look good in their own right.  In effect, all three men end up getting pushed.

 

That's great booking to me.

[Admin]

also side note:  not at all difficult to predict Vince's hardon for Bononi.  The guy is 6'6".

[Admin]

What incident?

Also I agree about the title.

 

[Ginguy]

Wow. Glad that everything worked out.

 

 

In before vines of Randy Orton RKO the choppa

[Admin]

watching the Battleground.

 

New Day vs Usos.  Pretty awesome kickoff.  Not sure why, but kinda surprised that

New Day pulled off the win

.

 

Nakamura Vs Baron Corbin.  I can't imagine they're not basically going to feed Nakamura to Corbin.  Match was weird.  Ending was dumb.  A very quick DQ giving Nakamura the win.  I like both of these two guys.  For some reason I just didn't like this match at all.

 

Marathon Women's match for the #1 contender for the Women's Title was decent as expected, pleasantly surprised by the outcome,

Natalya taking it

.  About freakin time.  she's deserved it for a long time now.

 

Owens Vs Styles:  Two of the best. 

Owens wins the title back

.  It's kind of embarrassing I think to WWE that

Styles has no title

.  Brett Hart used to use the catch phrase "best there is, best there was, best there ever will be" I think

Styles

really is about as close to the actual physical incarnation of that catch phrase than any other performer in WWE past or present.

[Admin]

Rusev Vs Cena:  Almost afraid to watch this one.  Pretty much forgone conclusion.  I get why people don't like Cena.  And I actually agree, I get a little tired of his obsequious asskissing of "our troops" and how he STILL doesn't have a handle on how to deal with fan hate after however many years of it.  But he's usually good in the ring.  And I love Rusev.  Even so, kind of like the Nakamura/Corbin match, I just found myself not really diggin it.  It felt kind of like a slow slog to an inevitable conclusion maybe?  But the whole match felt slow and drawn out to me.

 

Fashion Police segment is funny.  These segments are always funny to me.  And WWE humor is usually more broad, like anime humor, and usually sort of washes over me.  But not sure why, I always think these segments are actually funny usually.  Part of it is Breeze and Fandango, who are good together, and have at least a little skill there.  But the ideas and lines are always funny too.  Even the Ascension is funny in these segments.

 

Mike Kinellis Vs Sami Zayn:  Entertaining.  Zayn is another stellar ring guy.  Mike did okay. Not really a PPV quality match maybe.  But not bad.  Zayn picks up the win, again as expected.

 

Jinder Mahal Vs Randy Orton:  It's a Punjabi Prison match!  Because India has money to spend on things!  Honestly, the match is interesting.  Timed intervals the 4 doors lock, and if that happens, the only way out is to climb out.  Kind of a reversal of some of the other matches in that I really don't much care for either Orton or Mahal, but the match was entertaining.  The Singh brothers are just valets for Mahal, and therefor get no attention ever, but holy crap they take some hellacious bumps and at one point Samir was actually tied up with Orton toward the top of the cage wall and stuck in the middle, then took a shot, falling from the top of the cage through a table, incredible spot and he's not even in the match technically. 

Mahal wins after Orton almost makes it out but was stopped by the Great Kali

.  That was a fun match.  The main event actually was the best match of the night probably for a change.  Who saw that comin?  not me.

 

As PPVs go, meh. 

 

But the main event was at least PPV material.  Otherwise, really none of the matches were terrible or anything.  Just not really great either.

 

 

[BUU8800]

Watched it all somehow and with the exception of the tag match it was a bad show. Boring's the word really, seemed to go on forever. With Corbin/Nakamura and Owens/Styles being particularly disappointing. Those 2 matches felt like the wrestlers were moving waist deep in mud the whole time, possibly excluding Nakamura. Like they were doing the bare minimum while waiting for SummerSlam. Rusev/Cena and Jinder/Orton did too, but I never had any hope in those matches being anything but awful. Although Rusev shouting "Not today!" with Cena in the Accolade  made me laugh pretty hard. God he deserves better. Corbin, who I'm particularly high on and have seen have good matches on SmackDown, was awful. Poor Nakamura couldn't really help him as AJ has in the past. A very long, boring, bad show. And SmackDown probably ain't improving anytime soon.

[Admin]

also I was pumped when it was like "oh crap Talking Smack is on after it!" but then it's like - uh no.

 

It was just Renee Young and Jerry Lawler doing yer standard post-show, but they just called it "Talking Smack".

 

So - even the post show was a disappointment.

 

I actually thought it was at least passingly entertaining throughout.  But also - like if this was the old PPV days and I shelled out actual money for it, I'd be like - super super pissed off.  So I can see that perspective.

 

WWE has really suffered in that - their PPVs are mostly pretty much nothing exciting, but all their shows build toward the PPVs.  So like it's all getting dragged down because there aren't many PPVs anymore that are just BAM all the way through.  But that could just be me getting older too.

[Admin]

Jarrett is scrapping TNA, rebranding it Global Force Wrestling (the company he made after ditching TNA) and a bunch of people are jumping ship.

 

look for business to pick up in ROH.  and I suppose possibly NXT.