The FALL of Bleach.

[moose]

I'm sure this was passed around when Bleach got canceled, but I just saw it now and considered it a VERY interesting take on how far Bleach fell. So even if you saw it already, discussion about this is welcomed.

 

[Jman]

While he's not wrong, it's kind of a dead horse at this point.

 

Bleach can be studied in creative writing courses as how not to write a story.

[moose]

It's a shame, because the beginning still holds up for me.

 

But even if the story was mangled, Naruto lasted it's entirety in the upper ranks even when it's story went to shit. So its not like bad story itself would push people away.

 

It must have been something else.

[OwlChemist81]

Now that was a very interesting and well-done video! I do wish he would have mentioned Bleach's obvious and critical role in events coming up next year:

 

If not for Bleach's popularity on Adult Swim, [as] ACTN never would have held on long enough for Toonami to take hold on [as], and in turn, Dragon Ball Super probably would be on a kids network instead of Adult Swim!

 

At one time, Bleach was beating DBZ as the 3rd member of the Big 3, before the champ re-ascended the throne in 2nd half 2015! And of course, 2015 would also be the year DBZ Kai drew monumental ratings on Toonami, while Bleach aired for the last time on 1/31/15...

 

...but maybe not the last time ever. After all, Bleach's profile will someday decline to the point where its license might be cheap enough for Toonami to air the first 63 episodes remastered Kai-style in a late late night timeslot.

[CaptainStarwind]

...but maybe not the last time ever. After all, Bleach's profile will someday decline to the point where its license might be cheap enough for Toonami to air the first 63 episodes remastered Kai-style in a late late night timeslot.

 

The only way Toonami would pick up Bleach again is if they got a big expansion to the block and needed to fill out slots.  And even then, Bleach would only come after they filled the slots with whatever shows [as] holds the rights to (so Space Dandy, IGPX, GITS, etc.).  And that's even considering the GET further expansion.  The only reason we have expansion now is because DB Super. 

[StarPanda]

Bleach never fell in my heart

[ben0119]

Again with your lies?

 

Bleach wasn't canceled.  Kubo ended it because he was sick.

 

Not going to bother watching the video as I have heard this same tired shit a thousand times already.  Not going to have the same arguments over and over again.  Get something else to do with your time besides making threads to start shit, Moose.

[ben0119]

Bleach never fell in my heart

Bleach never fell, PERIOD.  This is all a bunch of bullshit from nitpicky haters.  If they don't like the manga they should drop it.  That's how I see it.  Yet people kept reading even as they complained.  Why? 

 

Also, not everyone who read it to the end were constantly complaining like that.  Plenty of people still have an overall positive view of Bleach, even if they did have some gripes.  So this whole notion of Bleach being something hated by everyone all across the board, and it being bad AS A FACT, is nonsense.  Good or bad is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Figures I log onto the boards after yet another break because of people pissing me the hell off and I see THIS shit.  Fuckin' Moose, man.  Who else?

[ben0119]

It's a shame, because the beginning still holds up for me.

 

But even if the story was mangled, Naruto lasted it's entirety in the upper ranks even when it's story went to shit. So its not like bad story itself would push people away.

 

It must have been something else.

Even if we don't agree on the level of Bleach's problems, you have to admit Naruto got way shittier than Bleach ever did.  And the direction its story took... ugh.  And yes, people kept lapping it up all the way to the end.

 

But again, Bleach was still selling enough to keep getting published.  It was Kubo's health that was at issue.  So, if Kubo was in good health, he wouldn't have had to end things prematurely. 

[ben0119]

The only way Toonami would pick up Bleach again is if they got a big expansion to the block and needed to fill out slots.  And even then, Bleach would only come after they filled the slots with whatever shows [as] holds the rights to (so Space Dandy, IGPX, GITS, etc.).  And that's even considering the GET further expansion.  The only reason we have expansion now is because DB Super.

They won't fill the slots of a possible mondo expansion with the old ASA dead horses again lest they want to immediately lose it.  Space Dandy, maybe, but that's about it.  Stuff like Bleach, Kenshin, and Yu Yu Hakusho would be great slot fillers.

[ben0119]

Now that was a very interesting and well-done video! I do wish he would have mentioned Bleach's obvious and critical role in events coming up next year:

 

If not for Bleach's popularity on Adult Swim, [as] ACTN never would have held on long enough for Toonami to take hold on [as], and in turn, Dragon Ball Super probably would be on a kids network instead of Adult Swim!

 

At one time, Bleach was beating DBZ as the 3rd member of the Big 3, before the champ re-ascended the throne in 2nd half 2015! And of course, 2015 would also be the year DBZ Kai drew monumental ratings on Toonami, while Bleach aired for the last time on 1/31/15...

 

...but maybe not the last time ever. After all, Bleach's profile will someday decline to the point where its license might be cheap enough for Toonami to air the first 63 episodes remastered Kai-style in a late late night timeslot.

 

People really should be more respectful and grateful to Bleach.  Bunch of ignorant, entitled, whiny INGRATES!  It's anime armageddon without Bleach!  You hear me?!  ARMAGEDDON!

[OwlChemist81]

Bleach may be past its prime, but its FAR from dead!

 

New stuff for Bleach is still coming out, including fanfiction light novels and a live-action adaptation!

 

Hopefully those, especially the latter, can get it right!

[moose]

Calm down, Ben.

 

Are we sure that's what happened? We all know how Jump operates. You know a cancellation isn't above them and we know during its final years Bleach was usually at the bottom at the rankings. A cancellation isn't that farfetched and given how it finished, seems like the likely thing that happened.

 

Anyway, if Kubo ended it like that then it doesn't really change anything since the ending was so lackluster. Which is the problem,  but I guess if it really was because of his health (some proof of that being the reason would be great) then I guess I can't blame him.

 

Either way, you should watch the video. Even if you don't agree with something it's really put together well and it's quite interesting.

[Misaka]

eh the anime should've ended at the aizen stabs rukia

everyone agrees with that

 

manga .... everyone got tired of his troll moves and not taking seriously

 

[Jman]

You can only dick people around for so long before they bail.

[ben0119]

I already posted proof.

 

http://unevenedge.imfapp.in/anime/itn-kubo-thanks-his-readers-discusses-his-illness/ 

 

http://tenshiscave.tumblr.com/post/153300055417/kubo-tite-bleach-twitter

 

Not my problem if you are too blind or illiterate to click and read it.  Kubo said this stuff himself.  He read and kept every fan letter, too.  Do you know many authors that would do that?

 

Again, he was ailing to the point where he couldn't finish the manga as he intended.  He didn't want to end it like this.  Kubo was forced to because he was getting so sick to the point he couldn't even work.  He's been sick since around the tenth anniversary.  If Kubo had more time and wasn't in such bad shape, things wouldn't been so rushed and so many plotlines dropped and character statuses left up in the air at the end.

 

We still don't know if Urahara, Yoruichi, Nel, Grimmjow, and Yuushiro are alive or dead!

 

I take heart, though, as there are some light novels coming out, and a data book that will have extra pages for the last chapter.  Kubo can probably put some more information and short stories in there, too, like he did with others in the past.  Really wish some of that aftermath stuff with Aizen had gotten into the actual manga, too...

 

It's the same shit I've already heard 80 billion times, just in a different format.  That's like saying I "need" to watch RedLetterMedia's reviews of the Star Wars prequels.  Fuck that.  I've had people react like when I tell a Bible thumper I don't go to Church when I tell them I liked the prequels.  Fuck 'em.

[ben0119]

You can only dick people around for so long before they bail.

Explain Naruto, then.  Or Hiatus.

 

I never felt "dicked around," either.  Again, don't act like this is some big consensus thing.  That's your bubble that you don't apparently venture out of.  It's not everybody.

[ben0119]

Bleach may be past its prime, but its FAR from dead!

 

New stuff for Bleach is still coming out, including fanfiction light novels and a live-action adaptation!

 

Hopefully those, especially the latter, can get it right!

Pretty sure those novels are considered canon, not "fanfiction."  Live action movie could be promising.  They better get Ai Shinozaki to play Orihime. 

 

Though two of the light novels are covering shit I don't care about -

 

 

Rukia and Renji's wedding (I wanted Ichigo and Rukia, so meh), and fucking Hisagi.

 

[moose]

Ben, that says nothing about Bleach ending because of his health. Only about the kid wanting him to end it his way and about his worsening condition. It still seems more likely to me that Shueisha pushed his hands.

 

 

Smh, really Ben. I honestly feel you're having a fanboy reaction. And before you bring it up, yes even though I've had some in the past, I can still call you out on it.

[CaptainStarwind]

They won't fill the slots of a possible mondo expansion with the old ASA dead horses again lest they want to immediately lose it.  Space Dandy, maybe, but that's about it.  Stuff like Bleach, Kenshin, and Yu Yu Hakusho would be great slot fillers.

 

There were a multitude of reasons for as to why Toonami lost it's later night hours in 2015.  Month of Movies 2014 was a bust, and that definitely played into it.  The constant slot changes and shows leaving  in the latter half of 2014 also didn't help, I think.  If you're implying what I think you are, then you're probably right: the ASA shows like GITS, IGPX, Dandy, and even Bebop were partially responsible for the reduction of Toonami.

 

However, you also have to take into account the fact that these shows were airing practically nonstop as late night filler for years.  Cowboy Bebop and FMAB (which I know Toonami no longer has) in particular were the biggest offenders, but they were all present in the late night block for practically all of Toonami's first three years.  However, they haven't been aired in nearly two years at this point.  Given that, I don't think they would be ratings killers like they were back in 2014, provided that they air in the later part of the block. 

 

So let's imagine that Adult Swim just up and gives Toonami 3:30 to 6:00 again.  Unlikely, but theoretically possible.  Perhaps Toonami has shows picked out to fill some of the slots, but I doubt they would get shows just for the sake of airing them in the 4:00 or 5:00 hour.  More likely, they would use what they have to fill those slots, or at least some of them.  As long as they keep the shows rotating off the block after a run, then they probably wouldn't get stale, and the ratings wouldn't suffer. 

 

That's the way I see it, anyway.

 

As for the second part of your comment, I wouldn't mind seeing any of those on Toonami again.  If Bleach were to end up returning, I'd like to see it start for Soul Society again.

[ben0119]

Ben, that says nothing about Bleach ending because of his health. Only about the kid wanting him to end it his way and about his worsening condition. It still seems more likely to me that Shueisha pushed his hands.

 

 

Smh, really Ben. I honestly feel you're having a fanboy reaction. And before you bring it up, yes even though I've had some in the past, I can still call you out on it.

Everyone else interpreted it the way I did.  You didn't because you're a hater, liar, and a troll, and a shitty troll, at that.

 

You're a liar.  There's nothing I despise more than liars.  From now on, you're dead to me.  I'm writing you off as a person.  As far as I'm concerned, you're no better than a Truther Creationist Flat Earther Ancient Aliens Theorist.

[ben0119]

There were a multitude of reasons for as to why Toonami lost it's later night hours in 2015.  Month of Movies 2014 was a bust, and that definitely played into it.  The constant slot changes and shows leaving  in the latter half of 2014 also didn't help, I think.  If you're implying what I think you are, then you're probably right: the ASA shows like GITS, IGPX, Dandy, and even Bebop were partially responsible for the reduction of Toonami.

 

However, you also have to take into account the fact that these shows were airing practically nonstop as late night filler for years.  Cowboy Bebop and FMAB (which I know Toonami no longer has) in particular were the biggest offenders, but they were all present in the late night block for practically all of Toonami's first three years.  However, they haven't been aired in nearly two years at this point.  Given that, I don't think they would be ratings killers like they were back in 2014, provided that they air in the later part of the block. 

 

So let's imagine that Adult Swim just up and gives Toonami 3:30 to 6:00 again.  Unlikely, but theoretically possible.  Perhaps Toonami has shows picked out to fill some of the slots, but I doubt they would get shows just for the sake of airing them in the 4:00 or 5:00 hour.  More likely, they would use what they have to fill those slots, or at least some of them.  As long as they keep the shows rotating off the block after a run, then they probably wouldn't get stale, and the ratings wouldn't suffer. 

 

That's the way I see it, anyway.

 

As for the second part of your comment, I wouldn't mind seeing any of those on Toonami again.  If Bleach were to end up returning, I'd like to see it start for Soul Society again.

All of that played a hand.  But notice the recurring theme.  Botched Second Month of Movies - full of reruns.  AoT rerun started off the block.  Real brain trust decision there.  ASA dead horses run into the ground until those slots became worthless black holes of audience apathy.

 

NO ONE WAS FORCING THEM TO RUN THOSE SHOWS OVER AND OVER!  We know they ran some of them due to their obnoxious fanboyism.  No.  They still would.  Fans remember movies from a year ago, they remember ASA Albatrosses from two years ago.  They all need to stay gone for at least ten years, and if they do come back, we need Big O Season 1 and HD remasters with proper aspect ratio for all of them.

 

Well, GitS doesn't really work that late at night, and that's the longest one they have (meaning the longest period of time between seeing the same episode).  You kinda' have to be coherent enough to know what the fuck is going on.  Something like InuYasha was perfect for that reason, and it's also why I'm suggesting other fairly easily digestible shonens.  I do think Space Dandy should get another run, though.  Probably don't need too many brain cells for that, if you even have any left after watching the trippy craziness, haha.  In fact, Space Dandy is more of an Adult Swim show than lots of the anime they have aired, for sure.

 

Yeah it would be cool.  Don't forget the Substitute Arc.  Even better than Soul Society, in my opinion. 8)

[moose]

Everyone else interpreted it the way I did.  You didn't because you're a hater, liar, and a troll, and a shitty troll, at that.

 

You're a liar.  There's nothing I despise more than liars.  From now on, you're dead to me.  I'm writing you off as a person.  As far as I'm concerned, you're no better than a Truther Creationist Flat Earther Ancient Aliens Theorist.

 

Or maybe, jussssst maybe, I'm a realist that knows about these types of things that isn't blinded by my fanboyism (when it comes to this, OP is unrelated so don't bring that up). As you clearly are right now.

 

If it makes you feel better to believe Bleach wasn't cancelled, then have a good time in La-La Land. The rest of us rational people who know how Shueisha typically works will stay grounded.

[CaptainStarwind]

No.  They still would.  Fans remember movies from a year ago, they remember ASA Albatrosses from two years ago.  They all need to stay gone for at least ten years, and if they do come back, we need Big O Season 1 and HD remasters with proper aspect ratio for all of them.

 

I think you're severely overestimating how much people hate these shows.  Obviously there are gonna be some people who are gung ho about these shows never airing again, but the vast majority of people (most Toonami fans included) probably don't care, as long as the shows have been given a rest,  which they have.  Besides, they would be (and in the case of GITS, are) airing in the later part of the block, where the ratings don't really matter.  If the ratings when GITS air bomb spectacularly, I'll concede to you, but I really don't think it'll happen.

 

Yeah it would be cool.  Don't forget the Substitute Arc.  Even better than Soul Society, in my opinion. 8)

 

Well that goes without saying; honestly I thought Bleach would have been cooler if it focused more on the human world side of things. 

[ben0119]

Or maybe, jussssst maybe, I'm a realist that knows about these types of things that isn't blinded by my fanboyism (when it comes to this, OP is unrelated so don't bring that up). As you clearly are right now.

 

If it makes you feel better to believe Bleach wasn't cancelled, then have a good time in La-La Land. The rest of us rational people who know how Shueisha typically works will stay grounded.

You're about as grounded as a hot air balloon.

[ben0119]

[ben0119]

[ben0119]

 

There's more emotion in a single eye drawn by Tite Kubo than the entire One Piece manga.

[Jman]

Ben is triggered. 

 

Seriously, part of me wonders if you pick shows people dislike to champion on purpose.

[ben0119]

Ben is triggered. 

 

Seriously, part of me wonders if you pick shows people dislike to champion on purpose.

No, I am just the underdog always and One Vs. All, and everyone else has taste cancer but me and I am the one who truly sees what are the good shows.

[Bookend47]

This thread is going NUCLEAR.

 

The works of based Eyepatch Wolf doesn't deserve this shit.

[Jman]

No, I am just the underdog always and One Vs. All, and everyone else has taste cancer but me and I am the one who truly sees what are the good shows.

 

Were this anyone else I'd know it was satirical.

[ben0119]

Were this anyone else I'd know it was satirical.

Sorry you are just too blind to see the genius and renaissance man that Kubo is.  Sad.

[ben0119]

 

Only reason I am not starting social media campaigns to get everyone to drop One Piece on Toonami and watch it on Funi Now is I don't much care for social media and I am too lazy and have better things to do.

[Cille]

No, I am just the underdog always and One Vs. All, and everyone else has taste cancer but me and I am the one who truly sees what are the good shows.

Don't forget that everyone else is an elitist and thinks that their opinions are the only right ones and everyone who thinks differently is beneath them.

[ben0119]

Don't forget that everyone else is an elitist and thinks that their opinions are the only right ones and everyone who thinks differently is beneath them.

Never said that.  And I'm not the only one who likes Bleach, SAO, Kekkaishi, Rave Master, etc... just because it's like that here, doesn't mean it's like that everywhere.  Get out of your bubble, Cille.  If people were nicer about their disagreements about shows, we wouldn't have these issues.  As it is, Moose has gone too far this time.  This is the worst thing he has ever done.  So, I am responding accordingly.

[ben0119]

[ben0119]

One vs. All - Ben vs. the Barbarian Hordes that threaten to ruin the anime community.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLcxXR1PMw

 

[Cille]

Never said that.  And I'm not the only one who likes Bleach, SAO, Kekkaishi, Rave Master, etc... just because it's like that here, doesn't mean it's like that everywhere.  Get out of your bubble, Cille.  If people were nicer about their disagreements about shows, we wouldn't have these issues.  As it is, Moose has gone too far this time.  This is the worst thing he has ever done.  So, I am responding accordingly.

Well of course, those who agree with you are among those who don't have taste cancer and aren't elitist, even if they are the only ones who can see what the good shows are. It's only the people who disagree with you who can't see a good show from the hole in their backsides and have to be all self-righteous about it.

[PokeNirvash]

Between this thread and the other one, I think Ben's gone off the deep end.

[moose]

Between this thread and the other one, I think Ben's gone off the deep end.

 

I know. ...

 

Should... should we get help?

 

Or, uh.... look the other way...? >__>

[Misaka]

Between this thread and the other one, I think Ben's gone off the deep end.

 

thread is becoming sad .... well at least it ain't looking like a wall of words yet

[ben0119]

Well of course, those who agree with you are among those who don't have taste cancer and aren't elitist, even if they are the only ones who can see what the good shows are. It's only the people who disagree with you who can't see a good show from the hole in their backsides and have to be all self-righteous about it.

No, it's the people who disagree with me and act like shitty trolls (Moose) or smug smart-asses (Top_Gun).  I am fine with disagreement, but don't be an ass about it.

[ben0119]

Between this thread and the other one, I think Ben's gone off the deep end.

They started it.

[ben0119]

thread is becoming sad .... well at least it ain't looking like a wall of words yet

[Misaka]

the fact you are using trump to back up your words you are no better than stalin

[ben0119]

the fact you are using trump to back up your words you are no better than stalin

Simmah.  I was just making fun of what you said, lul.  Don't blame me.  I wanted Rand Paul.

[Misaka]

Simmah.  I was just making fun of what you said, lul.  Don't blame me.  I wanted Rand Paul.

 

anyone would be better than the 2 choices we had

[ben0119]

anyone would be better than the 2 choices we had

Would you vote for Naraku over Trump or Hillary? 8)

[CaptainStarwind]

the fact you are using trump to back up your words you are no better than stalin

 

Stalin is my waifu.