Tokyo Revengers Episode 17: "No Way" Discussion!!

[CorbeauKarasu]

ASK FOR CLARIFICATION!!!!

[CorbeauKarasu]

FOLLOW-UP QUESTIONS!

[DangerMouse]

Yeah, Mikey's total normal...

[DangerMouse]

Just now, CorbeauKarasu said:

ASK FOR CLARIFICATION!!!!

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[ben0119]

So Kisaki is a master manipulator.  Of course he's somehow responsible for all that haha.

Another future trip?  I thought we wouldn't see the future for a really long time, according to Takamichi and Hina's brother.

I thought we already knew Kisaki was the enemy leader.  Yeah it's pretty odd he's in both gangs at the same time haha.

[ben0119]

Yeah it's not surprising Mikey would do that haha.

Also how the hell did Kazutora get out of jail so fast?  I thought Japan threw the book at people. 

[saito34]

[saito34]

1 minute ago, ben0119 said:

Yeah it's not surprising Mikey would do that haha.

Also how the hell did Kazutora get out of jail so fast?  I thought Japan threw the book at people. 

I think they have a more lenient, reform based system compared to US where keeping people locked up is very lucrative.

[DangerMouse]

1 minute ago, ben0119 said:

So Kisaki is a master manipulator.  Of course he's somehow responsible for all that haha.

Another future trip?  I thought we wouldn't see the future for a really long time, according to Takamichi and Hina's brother.

I thought we already knew Kisaki was the enemy leader.  Yeah it's pretty odd he's in both gangs at the same time haha.

And that he's a little bitch, seemingly keeps ensuring Hina's death.

Guess now we know how he was technically in both gangs at the same time.

[ben0119]

Just now, saito34 said:

I think they have a more lenient, reform based system compared to US where keeping people locked up is very lucrative.

I don't know I keep hearing about that 98% conviction rate, then hearing about how mind numbing the actual prison time is, making people do very strict routines.  Either way, nobody should be getting out of prison for murder.  If he'd just stolen the bike and no one was hurt, that would be another thing. 

[saito34]

15 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

I don't know I keep hearing about that 98% conviction rate, then hearing about how mind numbing the actual prison time is, making people do very strict routines.  Either way, nobody should be getting out of prison for murder.  If he'd just stolen the bike and no one was hurt, that would be another thing. 

yeah, that was the case up until the reforms in 2022.

Their penal system is 100% government run,  thus they have an incentive to fix whats not working. Also, even in America, I don't know if you'd get life for a crime like that. It's not 1st degree murder, but it certainly wouldn't be a short sentence either.

Edited Sunday at 06:24 AM by saito34

[ben0119]

12 minutes ago, saito34 said:

yeah, that was the case up until the reforms in 2022.

Their penal system is 100% government run,  thus they have an incentive to fix whats not working. Also, even in America, I don't know if you'd get life for a crime like that. It's not 1st degree murder, but it certainly wouldn't be a short sentence either.

Well I had just watched a video not too long ago about what Japanese prison is like, explaining that is what Johnny Somali would go through, but then Japan let him off scott free (hopefully he rots in Korean prison instead.)  I don't think the video was that old, but maybe it was inaccurate.  

There have definitely been cases where Americans killed someone and then got a ridiculously light sentence, which most people would criticize.  Even if it wasn't premeditated, someone who kills someone so thoughtlessly for such a meaningless reason as Kazutora did, shouldn't be let back into society. 

Maybe it was because of his age and Japan doesn't have that try a juvenile as an adult thing.  But I always thought it was bullshit that minors could get light sentences for heinous crimes, so I'm in favor of that option.  

I can't believe we had that idiot psychiatrist proud of himself for getting one of the Slender Man girls released.  It was also bullshit they just got committed and not actual prison time, in the first place.

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, DangerMouse said:

Uh....seems like half the characters in this show would do that

I forgot to say this earlier, but manipulating others to kill and commit other crimes, so you don't get your own hands dirty, that's nothing gangsters have ever been known to do LOL.

[DangerMouse]

1 minute ago, ben0119 said:

I forgot to say this earlier, but manipulating others to kill and commit other crimes, so you don't get your own hands dirty, that's nothing gangsters have ever been known to do LOL.

True, but I feel like manipulating someone into a fight with someone else rather than doing it yourself has happened a whole bunch of times this season lol.

Edited Sunday at 07:24 AM by DangerMouse

[ben0119]

1 hour ago, DangerMouse said:

And that he's a little bitch, seemingly keeps ensuring Hina's death.

Guess now we know how he was technically in both gangs at the same time.

Yeah but I don't know why Kisaki wants Hina dead so badly anyway.  It's not like she hinders any gang plans.  Guess he's just a petty bitch haha.

Yeah it makes sense I suppose, even though Mikey is a dumbass to be persuaded by Kisaki.

Edited Sunday at 07:26 AM by ben0119

[saito34]

46 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

Well I had just watched a video not too long ago about what Japanese prison is like, explaining that is what Johnny Somali would go through, but then Japan let him off scott free (hopefully he rots in Korean prison instead.)  I don't think the video was that old, but maybe it was inaccurate.  

There have definitely been cases where Americans killed someone and then got a ridiculously light sentence, which most people would criticize.  Even if it wasn't premeditated, someone who kills someone so thoughtlessly for such a meaningless reason as Kazutora did, shouldn't be let back into society. 

Maybe it was because of his age and Japan doesn't have that try a juvenile as an adult thing.  But I always thought it was bullshit that minors could get light sentences for heinous crimes, so I'm in favor of that option.  

I can't believe we had that idiot psychiatrist proud of himself for getting one of the Slender Man girls released.  It was also bullshit they just got committed and not actual prison time, in the first place.

I've actually softened my stance on the juvenile question a bit over the years. For one thing, I disagree wholeheartedly with the Felony-Murder doctrine. I don't believe that everyone who took part in a crime where a death occurred should be charged with murder. That's just way too broad for me. Secondly, I try to be sympathetic towards especially young kids who have particularly difficult backgrounds. I mean If my parents weren't around to straighten my ass out a few times I could very easily have gone down the wrong path too. That's certainly not meant to justify taking a life, but I'm trying to imagine the full spectrum of scenarios and some of these kids have no structure whatsoever.

Ultimately I don't think we can slap a mandatory life sentence on every juvenile murder case. Again, that's just way too broad for me. I think a case by case basis is the most logical approach. Without getting into hypotheticals, I do believe that even convicted murderers have the capacity for change and as a society we need to evaluate the merits of locking a 17 year old kid up for 80 years. Are there situations where even a juvenile needs to be locked up permanently? I can certainly imagine that scenario, but I mean there's a parole system for a reason. 

Edited Sunday at 07:32 AM by saito34

[ben0119]

18 minutes ago, saito34 said:

I've actually softened my stance on the juvenile question a bit over the years. For one thing, I disagree wholeheartedly with the Felony-Murder doctrine. I don't believe that everyone who took part in a crime where a death occurred should be charged with murder. That's just way too broad for me. Secondly, I try to be sympathetic towards especially young kids who have particularly difficult backgrounds. I mean If my parents weren't around to straighten my ass out a few times I could very easily have gone down the wrong path too. That's certainly not meant to justify taking a life, but I'm trying to imagine the full spectrum of scenarios and some of these kids have no structure whatsoever.

Ultimately I don't think we can slap a mandatory life sentence on every juvenile murder case. Again, that's just way too broad for me. I think a case by case basis is the most logical approach. Without getting into hypotheticals, I do believe that even convicted murderers have the capacity for change and as a society we need to evaluate the merits of locking a 17 year old kid up for 80 years. Are there scenarios where even a juvenile needs to be locked up permanently? I can certainly imagine that scenario, but I mean there's a parole system for a reason.

Well I wasn't just talking about minors, specifically, but yeah.  I wouldn't say someone needs go to prison for life just because they were with someone who committed murder, unless they were one of the attackers or the mastermind that got the other one to do it or whatever.  Baji here really shouldn't be put away for life or many years because he was just there to commit burglary, not kill someone, and he wasn't involved in the murder and even tried to stop Kazutora.

I don't buy that.  I've heard many times the excuse of poverty used for crime.  But I know many people who grew up poor and I'm not exactly made of money myself, and myself and none of those people "turned to a life of crime."  But it's obvious that there's some people who will only play by society's rules up to a certain point, then they decide that they should just be able to do or take whatever they want, because they think they're entitled to do so.

It's a nice thought, but I have seen too many times where judges will give light sentences, or the person gets paroled, for vicious crimes, even murder, then after the person gets out of prison, they kill even more people.  Those yogurt shop murders which were only solved recently, would've never happened if the guy had simply stayed in prison and not been let out.

Edited Sunday at 07:46 AM by ben0119