mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 here's a picture from the show of Vegeta screaming and vogueing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 ok I just find pretty much all of vegeta's behavior in super horribly out of character it's like his behavior in "Broly the legendary Super Saiyan" slightly toned down(in that while he's acting like a wuss he isn't wetting himself and crying like he did in that movie) mixed with a toned down version Yamcha's level of patheticness but without the expendable aspects(i.e. he's useless in a fight and constantly gets humiliated, but so far he hasn't died yet) except in the Black Goku arc where Vegeta briefly becomes awesome again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Forgetting the character development he went through in the Buu Saga, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Forgetting the character development he went through in the Buu Saga, eh? Mochi forgets or doesn't notice or doesn't know about a lot of things so that he can bitch more. Also his neurotic obsession with Vegeta is becoming tiresome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Forgetting the character development he went through in the Buu Saga, eh? I remember his character development doesn't mean he has to be a complete wimp and cower in horror and/or do humiliating dances and suck on a binky () every time a new villian shows up and make no attempt to fight them except when his wife and son are threatened then he suddenly gets awesome again(hence why I think the Black Goku saga is the only good one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Mochi forgets or doesn't notice or doesn't know about a lot of things so that he can bitch more. Also his neurotic obsession with Vegeta is becoming tiresome. losing all his strength and becoming a literal baby should not have been the end result of his character development in the Buu saga Gaining compassion should have made him a BETTER hero, not a worse one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I gotta say I kinda agree with Mochi here (NAAAAAAANIIIII!?!?) Vegeta... I'm aware he got character development after Buu, but Super sometimes goes overboard with the silly moments concerning him. But then again, Super is a grand deal more silly than DBZ (Its actually kinda a hybrid between OG DB and Z, tone-wise) so it's to be expected. Most of the stonic characters are put in more comedic moments. Just feel Vegeta is put in these situations to much and too drastically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 I gotta say I kinda agree with Mochi here (NAAAAAAANIIIII!?!?) Vegeta... I'm aware he got character development after Buu, but Super sometimes goes overboard with the silly moments concerning him. But then again, Super is a grand deal more silly than DBZ (Its actually kinda a hybrid between OG DB and Z, tone-wise) so it's to be expected. Most of the stonic characters are put in more comedic moments. Just feel Vegeta is put in these situations to much and too drastically. I can't believe you're agreeing with me either also yes, that's exactly how I feel about how super treats Vegeta I don't care if the show is trying to be more comedic, give Vegeta a break once in a while and pick on someone else, it's not fair to only humiliate him just comes across as mean I'm insanely pissed that they basially made Vegeta a weak comic relief character with no redeeming qualities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Well I wouldn't go that far. Super is after all the Goku and Vegeta show. He has plenty of moments. It's just that they make him more comedic than they should, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Well I wouldn't go that far. Super is after all the Goku and Vegeta show. He has plenty of moments. It's just that they make him more comedic than they should, as well. has Vegeta won any battles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 has Vegeta won any battles? Against that robot guy and he was beating on Black before he fused. I mean... he technically didn't win any battles in Z, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Against that robot guy and he was beating on Black before he fused. I mean... he technically didn't win any battles in Z, either. Recoome, Guldo, and Goku 3 times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Well I suppose I should say he didn't win against anyone that's a major threat. Guido is a joke among the DB community. Recoome he just finished off. And the Goku defeats were all unsatisfying. He never had a legit win against a big threat, like say, Trunks with Black/Zamasu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Well I suppose I should say he didn't win against anyone that's a major threat. Guido is a joke among the DB community. Recoome he just finished off. And the Goku defeats were all unsatisfying. He never had a legit win against a big threat, like say, Trunks with Black/Zamasu. least he got to Kick Black's ass for hurting his family (and Goku didn't step in and steal the victory like in ressurection f) but yeah they need to lay off the Vegeta abuse for a while Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Recoome, Guldo, and Goku 3 times You're forgetting his victories over Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon (after the initial beatdown), Jeice and Android 19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 You're forgetting his victories over Cui, Dodoria, Zarbon (after the initial beatdown), Jeice and Android 19. you just proved my point he doesn't have a single victory to his name in super (aside from the non-fatality one against Black that Trunks finished off) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 If Super is more like early Dragonball in tone, then things are probably more tongue in cheek. Given that, perhaps the stuff with Vegeta isn't so bad? That's what's so funny about it, this usually super-serious constantly angry guy getting put in these ridiculous situations. It's pretty much comedy 101. I think the way comedy was handled with Byakuya was done pretty well. Most of it's in the omakes, but it shows how comedy with a stoic character like that can be done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 Eh.. I'd say it's a bit different. Byakuya usually stays stoic with everything around him being ridiculous. While Super has Vegeta join right into the silly antics. I mean, it's not all that bad, but it is a bit jarring... which may be their intention, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 That's because Vegeta is usually the butt of the joke, the George Costanza, if you will, which again, works for his constantly struggling and put upon character that always gets the short end of the stick despite being the most elite Saiyan ever before he enters the story. Byakuya, on the other hand, is the "winner" in the jokes, deftly negotiating various hairy, ridiculous, silly situations and making others into fools and to look silly, all the while being funny but not acting completely out of character, as he does unexpectedly funny things that would almost seem out of character, but don't, and it works very well. ;D It's sort of like the "big brother" scene with Seshomaru at the end of the Final Act, or any of the comedic scenes Sesshomaru has with Jaken, really. But as I said, these characters are the higher person in the joke, "the winner,", where Vegeta is the lower person, "the loser." And there's nothing wrong with that. Meanwhile, Byakuya and Sesshomaru both "join in", but don't look silly, remain stoic, as you said. I think the whole gimmick of the comedy with Vegeta is this big, tough, serious angry guy doing all this silly stuff. I'd compare that more to Kenpachi and his dynamic with silly, adorable Yachiru. A little girl that gets to order him around and call him by a pet cute name - "Kenny" or "Ken-chan", I'll remind you. Vegeta struggles, he trains, he tries his best. I think it's good to show that sometimes no matter how hard you try, you may never achieve your goal, but you should never give up, because that would be even worse, and people will always respect you for that, regardless of your ultimate win-loss/end goal successes in the end. Saying that Vegeta is ruined as a character because of how he is handled in situations like this or his "win-loss record" would be like saying people should hate Shawn Michaels because he lost so many of his great, memorable matches, and lost a lot of matches in general, therefore he's a humiliated, worthless character and a loser. Not true at all. You can easily lose and come out looking like a rose, and some characters it doesn't hurt at all. Ash loses constantly and it's good because it shows kids that same lesson I just mentioned, plus it's more realistic. You've got to lose a lot to learn things and progress, improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 26, 2016 Author Share Posted December 26, 2016 That's because Vegeta is usually the butt of the joke, the George Costanza, if you will, which again, works for his constantly struggling and put upon character that always gets the short end of the stick despite being the most elite Saiyan ever before he enters the story. Byakuya, on the other hand, is the "winner" in the jokes, deftly negotiating various hairy, ridiculous, silly situations and making others into fools and to look silly, all the while being funny but not acting completely out of character, as he does unexpectedly funny things that would almost seem out of character, but don't, and it works very well. ;D It's sort of like the "big brother" scene with Seshomaru at the end of the Final Act, or any of the comedic scenes Sesshomaru has with Jaken, really. But as I said, these characters are the higher person in the joke, "the winner,", where Vegeta is the lower person, "the loser." And there's nothing wrong with that. Meanwhile, Byakuya and Sesshomaru both "join in", but don't look silly, remain stoic, as you said. I think the whole gimmick of the comedy with Vegeta is this big, tough, serious angry guy doing all this silly stuff. I'd compare that more to Kenpachi and his dynamic with silly, adorable Yachiru. A little girl that gets to order him around and call him by a pet cute name - "Kenny" or "Ken-chan", I'll remind you. Vegeta struggles, he trains, he tries his best. I think it's good to show that sometimes no matter how hard you try, you may never achieve your goal, but you should never give up, because that would be even worse, and people will always respect you for that, regardless of your ultimate win-loss/end goal successes in the end. Saying that Vegeta is ruined as a character because of how he is handled in situations like this or his "win-loss record" would be like saying people should hate Shawn Michaels because he lost so many of his great, memorable matches, and lost a lot of matches in general, therefore he's a humiliated, worthless character and a loser. Not true at all. You can easily lose and come out looking like a rose, and some characters it doesn't hurt at all. Ash loses constantly and it's good because it shows kids that same lesson I just mentioned, plus it's more realistic. You've got to lose a lot to learn things and progress, improve. that's actually why it bothers me if Vegeta was in on the joke once and a while it wouldn't be so bad, and also, if he actually played along with some of the crazy shit happening around him but stayed stoic(like Byakuya) it would be too, the issue is when the show has a chance to actually let Vegeta join in on the fun they blow it by making it seem like he's actually miserable the only arc in super I've seen that seems like it gives Vegeta a break was the Baseball filler episode....and only because Both Goku and vegeta were behaving insanely(but with complete seriousness) by turning a baseball game into a typical life or death DBZ action battle while, Yamcha acted as the confused sane party for once being horrified that asking Goku and Vegeta to play ball with him went south so fast side note: based on a lot of the screenshots I'm seeing it seems like another thing Super is doing is having everyone be super pissed off at Goku at pretty much all times...and conversely making Goku act like an Asshole to everybody (kind of like in classic Dragonball where Goku was actually kind of a jerk at times(not deliberately but he had a tendancy to say hatefull things to people without realizing why what he said would make them mad....like the few occasions where Bulma flirted with him and he responded by implying she was dirty or ugly....he does this exact thing in Super(he tells Bulma she's old and saggy)...in front of Vegeta.....Vegeta gets insanely mad and Goku instant transmissions away in fear)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 26, 2016 Share Posted December 26, 2016 that's actually why it bothers me if Vegeta was in on the joke once and a while it wouldn't be so bad, and also, if he actually played along with some of the crazy shit happening around him but stayed stoic(like Byakuya) it would be too, the issue is when the show has a chance to actually let Vegeta join in on the fun they blow it by making it seem like he's actually miserable the only arc in super I've seen that seems like it gives Vegeta a break was the Baseball filler episode....and only because Both Goku and vegeta were behaving insanely(but with complete seriousness) by turning a baseball game into a typical life or death DBZ action battle while, Yamcha acted as the confused sane party for once being horrified that asking Goku and Vegeta to play ball with him went south so fast side note: based on a lot of the screenshots I'm seeing it seems like another thing Super is doing is having everyone be super pissed off at Goku at pretty much all times...and conversely making Goku act like an Asshole to everybody (kind of like in classic Dragonball where Goku was actually kind of a jerk at times(not deliberately but he had a tendancy to say hatefull things to people without realizing why what he said would make them mad....like the few occasions where Bulma flirted with him and he responded by implying she was dirty or ugly....he does this exact thing in Super(he tells Bulma she's old and saggy)...in front of Vegeta.....Vegeta gets insanely mad and Goku instant transmissions away in fear)) I think you are just too neurotic and obsessed with Vegeta, but I will see for myself and judge for myself when Super airs. That sounds like a great episode, lol. Yeah, that is a better use of Goku's character, and he should be treated that way. He's a jackass. And to be fair, he still gets treated that way in DBZ, just not as often, but to be fair, that's probably because Goku is always laid up for most of the show, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Also DBZ is alot more nonstop. It's basically fights then train fights then train then fights. Super has a lot more slice of life moments, hense the lighter tone. It's kinda funny watching the Z heads complain about Super being too silly and lighthearted(even tho I do think they go a bit overboard with Vegeta, but that's fine). They're probably the kinda people who listen to the Dub Broly movie soundtrack while worshipping Broly for his "badass-ness", while hating the original DB for being 'lame'. Dude-Bros like that. Smh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Also DBZ is alot more nonstop. It's basically fights then train fights then train then fights. Super has a lot more slice of life moments, hense the lighter tone. It's kinda funny watching the Z heads complain about Super being too silly and lighthearted(even tho I do think they go a bit overboard with Vegeta, but that's fine). They're probably the kinda people who listen to the Dub Broly movie soundtrack while worshipping Broly for his "badass-ness", while hating the original DB for being 'lame'. Dude-Bros like that. Smh. I actually preffer classic DB so I might actually like Super's writing style once I actually watch it............except for the vegeta abuse which will still annoy me (not as much as some other shows Toonami has aired bother me but it is annoying to see your favorite character be abused) basically I can put up with it but I hope the writers rebel against Toriyama's hatred of Vegeta and give him SOMETHING actually cool to do somewhere down the line he can't be a comic relief character in every situation(unless he evolves into a Sokka type character and manages to be awesome despite being a source of Comic relief) also I'm glad they acknowlaged Arale's existance again, even if she did Kick Vegeta's ass (granted she Kicked Goku's ass when he crossed over into the Dr. Slump remake so it's only fair that Vegeta gets to experience the horror of fighting Arale too)....it was also funny when Vegeta fought Arale because he became self aware and broke the forth wall by saying and I quote "she must be a Gag-Manga character!" ....apperently Vegeta is now aware that he's a cartoon character which is actually insanely funny to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Also DBZ is alot more nonstop. It's basically fights then train fights then train then fights. Super has a lot more slice of life moments, hense the lighter tone. It's kinda funny watching the Z heads complain about Super being too silly and lighthearted(even tho I do think they go a bit overboard with Vegeta, but that's fine). They're probably the kinda people who listen to the Dub Broly movie soundtrack while worshipping Broly for his "badass-ness", while hating the original DB for being 'lame'. Dude-Bros like that. Smh. Umm those moments were the best thing about the original Dragonball. World building, seeing all the people all over the world, spending time and getting to know them, nice, charming scenes, comedy, slice of life, more of a story, etc... So it sounds like Super is an improvement over Z, to me. That's part of why I liked GT, too. It was more like Dragonball as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I actually preffer classic DB so I might actually like Super's writing style once I actually watch it............except for the vegeta abuse which will still annoy me (not as much as some other shows Toonami has aired bother me but it is annoying to see your favorite character be abused) basically I can put up with it but I hope the writers rebel against Toriyama's hatred of Vegeta and give him SOMETHING actually cool to do somewhere down the line he can't be a comic relief character in every situation(unless he evolves into a Sokka type character and manages to be awesome despite being a source of Comic relief) also I'm glad they acknowlaged Arale's existance again, even if she did Kick Vegeta's ass (granted she Kicked Goku's ass when he crossed over into the Dr. Slump remake so it's only fair that Vegeta gets to experience the horror of fighting Arale too)....it was also funny when Vegeta fought Arale because he became self aware and broke the forth wall by saying and I quote "she must be a Gag-Manga character!" ....apperently Vegeta is now aware that he's a cartoon character which is actually insanely funny to me You've been bitching all this time and you haven't even seen it? FFS. Toriyama doesn't hate Vegeta. You know nothing. If you weren't so hard for Vegeta and annoyingly obsessed with him, you would realize that. I swear, you're like Ranlsa with her HITTING and BULLYING shit, how she was with Edward and Inuyasha. Ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStarwind Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Toriyama doesn't hate Vegeta. I've actually heard that he does, too. It's one more reason to hate Super for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 You've been bitching all this time and you haven't even seen it? FFS. Toriyama doesn't hate Vegeta. You know nothing. If you weren't so hard for Vegeta and annoyingly obsessed with him, you would realize that. I swear, you're like Ranlsa with her HITTING and BULLYING shit, how she was with Edward and Inuyasha. Ugh. Toriyama legitimately said he hated Vegeta and intended for him to die in the Saiyan saga in an interview once, and that the only reason he didn't let Krillin kill him was because the publishers saw potential in Vegeta as a character Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 I've actually heard that he does, too. It's one more reason to hate Super for me. I dunno if he still hates him but he legit said he hated Vegeta and only kept him around because the publishers and the fans liked him that very same reason is why Vegeta got more handsome after the Saiyan Saga (he was originally small and fat with a baby-ish face , but after the decision was made to reform him he got muscular and handsome ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 I dunno if he still hates him but he legit said he hated Vegeta and only kept him around because the publishers and the fans liked him that very same reason is why Vegeta got more handsome after the Saiyan Saga (he was originally small and fat with a baby-ish face , but after the decision was made to reform him he got muscular and handsome ) That or... ya know... DB's art changed throughout the course of the series. Vegeta isn't the only one to "reform" from start of series to end of Z. Almost everyone that is humanoid looks drastically different. I mean just compare Goku. or Bulma Or hell, even Krillin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 That or... ya know... DB's art changed throughout the course of the series. Vegeta isn't the only one to "reform" from start of series to end of Z. Almost everyone that is humanoid looks drastically different. I mean just compare Goku. or Bulma for better comparison here's a picture of Vegeta Immediately following the decision to keep him around and make him heroic he's about 2 feet taller and skinny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokeNirvash Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yet still a complete manlet. [dodges dog treat] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 for better comparison here's a picture of Vegeta Immediately following the decision to keep him around and make him heroic he's about 2 feet taller and skinny Ehh, even then, the art evolved over all. Not just Vegeta. Here's saiyan saga Goku And here he is by the Namek saga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Bulma's thighs were a lot thicker when she was a kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 Yet still a complete manlet. [dodges dog treat] by average Standards Goku is a manlet too, he's only 5'7" Vegeta is 5'3" and Krillin is 5'0" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 The real travesty is Gohan. Who went from this -- to this -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 The real travesty is Gohan. Who went from this -- to this -- HOLY SHIT!, VIDEL!, TAKE BETTER CARE OF YOUR MAN!, HE'S SKIN AND BONES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 27, 2016 Author Share Posted December 27, 2016 while we're on the subject of Videl did they ever explain why she went Super Saiyan briefly in that one episode or did they just forget they animated that after it happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 while we're on the subject of Videl did they ever explain why she went Super Saiyan briefly in that one episode or did they just forget they animated that after it happened? Videl is human. That was just Toei's attempt to show that Videl had a saiyan in her womb (Pan). Although, I dunno why they just didn't do it like the movie, instead of making her hair all super-saiyan like. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlChemist81 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I also like Vegeta, maybe because he's a "real" hero, still full of hubris enough to actually be counterproductive to the goal of the heroes. You'll see that more in DBZ KFC and Super! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 28, 2016 Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 I also like Vegeta, maybe because he's a "real" hero, still full of hubris enough to actually be counterproductive to the goal of the heroes. You'll see that more in DBZ KFC and Super! Kfc? I just dislike Goku because he's pretty much a mary sue, Super seems to be calling out his sue traits though so that's good (based on what I've seen he's constantly being a dick to everybody in super and they're actually getting pissed off about it (unlike in Z) and Beerus and Whis have begun to hate him due to how unbearably stupid he is, he also apparently might be single-handedly responsible for the conflict in the coming arc because from the sound of it he specifically invited a villian to attack the earth because he wanted a strong opponent to fight) I like Vegeta for many reasons 1. his family is the best Family in DBZ, and weirdly enough has the healthiest relationship (as of the end of the Buu saga) he loves Bulma, she loves him, he greatly respects Bulma and she him, and due to his development in the Buu Saga, he's now making a conscious effort to be a good dad to Trunks, it's also adorable (as with in the Buu saga) how cool Trunks thinks his dad is 2. he actually has a deeper Backstory than any other character, being that his race was genocided and he was forced to become a killing machine, BY the man who killed his race, to survive (and his entire story arc is him trying to unlearn all the stuff he had to learn to survive that life) 3. he provides a necessary viewpoint of battle, Goku's only view of battle is "awesome I get to beat someone up!, screw everybody else!" Vegeta's view of battle is "if someone is going to kill you, Kill them first before they can kill you or someone you care about" I.e. he has common sense, something everyone else in the series Lacks 4. Goku cannot control his strength, he accidentally injured Chichi once because he didn't realize slapping her on the back would send her flying through a wall , Vegeta has never injured Bulma, implying, Ironically, a higher level of restraint than Goku has (Vegeta did accidentally punch Trunks once during training but his reaction was immediate horror and he apparently took Trunks to the amusement park to apologize, not to mention that said training was having Trunks try to beat him in a fight) also, A lot of Vegeta's behavior can be explained as self hatred issues whereas on Goku's side of things.....if I recall correctly Roshi once basically said that Goku was actually not a good person or even a true hero, the gist of it was that Goku isn't fighting to protect people, because he doesn't really care about people all that terribly much, all he really cares about is fighting and he seeks new fights whenever he can to keep his lust for battle sated, Super is proving these statements Vegeta used to fight for self Preservation....now he fights because he actually cares about his family and wants to protect them, basically Vegeta has more heroic traits then Goku even though Goku is the one the story treats as Heroic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 I've actually heard that he does, too. It's one more reason to hate Super for me. No he doesn't. That's just Mochi's neurosis and obsessive crush on Vegeta talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Ehh, even then, the art evolved over all. Not just Vegeta. Here's saiyan saga Goku And here he is by the Namek saga Is there anything Mochi is right about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben0119 Posted December 28, 2016 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Well, at least Toriyama likes Vegeta more than Kubo likes Ichigo and Hitsugaya LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Well, at least Toriyama likes Vegeta more than Kubo likes Ichigo and Hitsugaya LOL. I don't think Toriyama hates vegeta too strongly, if he did he wouldn't have given Vegeta so many nude scenes or redeemed him in the Buu Saga and made him a loving father he seems to just be annoyed that the publishers kept vetoing his (horrible) plans for the story in favor of much better ones, basically he resents what Vegeta represents more than actively hating him also I just remembered he said in an interview concerning Ressurection F that he feels like it's time he give Vegeta a break and let him be a Hero every once in a while (he ended up not doing that by letting Goku steal Vegeta's victory right out from under him though) so his feelings might have changed slightly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Nude scenes Proof that an author doesn't outright hate a character #MochiLogic, err'body! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainStarwind Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 No he doesn't. That's just Mochi's neurosis and obsessive crush on Vegeta talking. I've heard of this prior to Mochi talking about it, so I'm more inclined to believe it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Nude scenes Proof that an author doesn't outright hate a character #MochiLogic, err'body! would you draw an OC you hate naked?, and give them a design overhaul to make them hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mochi Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 I've heard of this prior to Mochi talking about it, so I'm more inclined to believe it. supposedly he also said he didn't like Vegeta partially because his character sort of replaced Piccolo (apperently he planned for Piccolo to more or less be Goku's rival/foil but keeping Vegeta around made HIM take over that role instead and Piccolo became incidental) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moose Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (Sigh) You are the gay one, Mochi. Not Toriyama. Vegeta's designed changed because DB as a whole had its art change throughout the several arcs... just like any other manga. Manga art styles evolve. This is nothing new. He was not overhauled to make him "hot". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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