I'm pretty sure Disney is having a "we need gay characters" panic attack

[mochi]

6 Gay couples appeared in the season finale of Star Vs. (with 5 of them kissing on the lips)

 

and they just confirmed that Le Fou

(the fat little Gaston fanboy in beauty and the beast) is Gay after having denied that he was for over 20 years (they say it's made explicitly clear he is Gay in the live action remake)

 

 

this is reassuring

 

**cautious optimism begins coming to a boil**

[Mewn]

Well that's good, I guess.

 

Don't really care much for Disney, but glad they're starting to be more inclusive.

 

Plus gay is in.

[mochi]

Well that's good, I guess.

 

Don't really care much for Disney, but glad they're starting to be more inclusive.

 

Plus gay is in.

yeah

 

admittedly making Lefou Gay has.........unpleasant implications bit it at least shows that Disney realizes their shunning of gay people is a problem and is seeking to correct it

[Mewn]

yeah

 

admittedly making Lefou Gay has.........unpleasant implications bit it at least shows that Disney realizes their shunning of gay people is a problem and is seeking to correct it

 

Mhmm, hopefully we'll get an original story with gay characters.

 

There was this too: http://nypost.com/2017/03/01/disney-has-its-first-gay-kiss/

[HardcoreHunter]

Why is a retcon of a forgettable villain toady reassuring?  If anything they should be trying to make compelling new characters that people will like. The issue is that Disney sucks anymore at creating good villains. The last one that I can think of that is somewhat interesting was Syndrome from the Incredibles. Other than that all of the good ones came out in the 90s.

 

I think the fault stands more on pixar's line of story telling. It tends to be more about a journey and self realization rather than overcoming a foe. The few villains that they have used sans Syndrome aren't usually that major of a deal, and lack personality.

[mochi]

Why is a retcon of a forgettable villain toady reassuring?  If anything they should be trying to make compelling new characters that people will like. The issue is that Disney sucks anymore at creating good villains. The last one that I can think of that is somewhat interesting was Syndrome from the Incredibles. Other than that all of the good ones came out in the 90s.

 

I think the fault stands more on pixar's line of story telling. It tends to be more about a journey and self realization rather than overcoming a foe. The few villains that they have used sans Syndrome aren't usually that major of a deal, and lack personality.

it's more polarizing than reassuring

 

Lefou was and still is, first of all, Evil, and also weak, wimpy, regularly beaten up by stronger heterosexual men, and the man he's in love with is Evil, doesn't love him back, and dies

 

it's actually horrible

 

BUT, the fact that it's even happening implies Disney is trying to get over their homophobia and wants to learn how to do it right, they just don't yet

 

basically, and I hate to use Steven Universe as an example, Disney is basically Peridot right now

[mochi]

Mhmm, hopefully we'll get an original story with gay characters.

 

There was this too: http://nypost.com/2017/03/01/disney-has-its-first-gay-kiss/

I made a thread in free for all that was basically a list of LGBT stories they could easily make,

 

I assume Disney intends to eventually do something ACTUALLY pro-gay.....but right now all we got is some gay men kissing in the background and a Gay villain

[Mewn]

I made a thread in free for all that was basically a list of LGBT stories they could easily make,

 

I assume Disney intends to eventually do something ACTUALLY pro-gay.....but right now all we got is some gay men kissing in the background and a Gay villain

 

~_~

Welp, hopefully we get more substantial things :D

 

I'm scared about what they're going to do with one of my favorite musicals, Wicked >___<

 

I can see them trying to push Glinda and Elphaba together.....I mean, in the actual book they share a kiss before going off on different paths.

 

I just hope they don't butcher it like they did with Maleficent.

[HardcoreHunter]

I think it's hard to compare a character who was trying to change and accept a different lifestyle, to a company that is looking out for the most profitable next move.  They realized that they can pander to furries and did well with zootopia. It was less of a jump for them as anthropomorphic animals have always been one of their things, but the undertones and marketing were targeting that demographic.  Zootopia as I had ranted in the past is a mediocre film, but makes a lot of money because it panders long and hard. The best things it has going for it are visual design and voice talent, but the story is uninspiring buddy cop film cliche, and the pace felt like they slapped two films together midway through. 

 

There is also the issue that the lgbtqyz has started imploding on itself because too many groups are latching onto the movement. Anderson Cooper has been targeted the past couple years for not being "gay enough".  Then there are the ones that hate the whole bisexual thing, and think that the transgenders are looking for justification for a mental illness. An gender snowflakes that want to be segregated for some reason. Just a whole lot of self persecution going on in the group. An Disney has to market towards that...How? It's like having sex with a cactus, there's no easy way about it, and you'll probably end up worse off than had you left it alone.

 

 

 

 

[mochi]

I think it's hard to compare a character who was trying to change and accept a different lifestyle, to a company that is looking out for the most profitable next move.  They realized that they can pander to furries and did well with zootopia. It was less of a jump for them as anthropomorphic animals have always been one of their things, but the undertones and marketing were targeting that demographic.  Zootopia as I had ranted in the past is a mediocre film, but makes a lot of money because it panders long and hard. The best things it has going for it are visual design and voice talent, but the story is uninspiring buddy cop film cliche, and the pace felt like they slapped two films together midway through. 

 

There is also the issue that the lgbtqyz has started imploding on itself because too many groups are latching onto the movement. Anderson Cooper has been targeted the past couple years for not being "gay enough".  Then there are the ones that hate the whole bisexual thing, and think that the transgenders are looking for justification for a mental illness. An gender snowflakes that want to be segregated for some reason. Just a whole lot of self persecution going on in the group. An Disney has to market towards that...How? It's like having sex with a cactus, there's no easy way about it, and you'll probably end up worse off than had you left it alone.

a lot of that isn't correct

 

first of all you made fun of the LGBT acronym...which is needless and insulting, and also, in general the whole hatred of Bisexuals thing is something that's frowned upon amongst actual LGBT rights activists, as well as treating Trans people like they're mentally ill

 

about all you're arguably correct about is the genderfluid and agender people(basically people who aren't going to transition genders but dress or act outside their percieved physical sex) being looked down upon and that's more because they haven't had a distinct name for their identity until recently, in the past they would've just been called drag queens

[HardcoreHunter]

Give it time, it will have more letters sorry if it was mean though. Still when you get down to it the lgbtq is as split as heated political parties for the most part. Maybe it's because most of the ones that I know are in the bi category and tend to get the most judgment. Much like how in the S&M community it's frowned upon to switch roles, you are either an S or an M, despite some people being comfortable as either role. I do know some older (60 something year olds) lesbian and gay people who despise the bq part as much as any strict conservative.  Mainly they feel that they fought hard for their rights in a time when they were really being sexually oppressed. Then these groups just latched onto their group which they feel weakened their cause to be taken seriously. They however are for the most part are removed from current "gay culture".  I also know an old Queen (it's at least his preferred term) that is more flamboyant, but also pretty judgmental which I don't know if it's supposed to be ironic at times. Gives off a very Tim Curry vibe and used to run a porn store and a bar.

 

My friend has been seeing a bi girl who has lots of lgbt friends (didn't say q because the gender identity thing turns into a 3hr argument amongst themselves).  Which is funny on how much they cry about others in the lgbt community shunning them.  I think that it can be agreed that the bq groups of the lgt are more prone to SJW acts. Which has gotten to a point of backlash from most.

 

 

From how I see it the movement is too varied to truly market towards the demographic as a whole. Disney has to think about their largest target demographic and the lgbtq community tends to not have kids that buy merchandise compared to the nuclear family demographic.  This is much like how everyone was screaming "Bring back Boy meets World/Full House". So they have Girl meets world and Fuller House and people watched it for a few episodes then interest dropped entirely. Same happened with Nick's the 90s are All That. It was hype for the first month then interest died. Now it's just Hey Arnold reruns most every night because it's the most hipster liked nicktoon. Some people like the idea of some things more than the execution of the idea. We realize that we enjoyed something because we were in that demographic and the stories were written for us at that time. If Disney now pumps out a movie that kids will like it has to ignore a lot of what adults want.

 

There is a lot of cartoons now that I think are focusing too much on current events and nostalgia pandering rather than telling a timeless story. In 30 years kids may be watching Steven Universe and need a damn history lesson of the roaring 20s 2k edition to understand all the references. SU also has the issue of overshooting the demographic aiming more for the collage group. Adventure time did the same thing and tried too hard to pander to a large and varied fanbase, and now it's on it's final season.

[mochi]

apparently it turns out the "exclusive progressive gay scene" Disney was patting themselves on the back for is just that Lefou is briefly shown Dancing with another Man at Belle and the Beast's wedding

 

I.e. the implication is that he moved on from Gaston and found someone who doesn't treat him like shit

[HardcoreHunter]

apparently it turns out the "exclusive progressive gay scene" Disney was patting themselves on the back for is just that Lefou is briefly shown Dancing with another Man at Belle and the Beast's wedding

 

I.e. the implication is that he moved on from Gaston and found someone who doesn't treat him like shit

 

Also read an artical that was oddly worded by the Director playing it up. As well they said that this is only for the live action Lefou and did not retcon the animated version which seemed like an odd statement. The director said that Lefou was going to be depicted as coming to terms with his sexuality, that Gaston was both the man he wanted to be and the person he wanted to be with, and that there would be focus on his inner struggle and coming to terms with his true self.

 

Really as strongly worded as that was I'm surprised it's just a dance scene. Makes me wonder if Disney looked at the film and said "cut this, and that, and all of this, dance scene can stay, cut this". Still like I said prior Disney has the final say and will do what they think will make money. The hype now got a lot of lgbt to see the film, but didn't have anything major in it to piss off parents that don't want their kids exposed to gay in kids films. Disney gets all the money; Disney wins again! 

[mochi]

Also read an artical that was oddly worded by the Director playing it up. As well they said that this is only for the live action Lefou and did not retcon the animated version which seemed like an odd statement. The director said that Lefou was going to be depicted as coming to terms with his sexuality, that Gaston was both the man he wanted to be and the person he wanted to be with, and that there would be focus on his inner struggle and coming to terms with his true self.

 

Really as strongly worded as that was I'm surprised it's just a dance scene. Makes me wonder if Disney looked at the film and said "cut this, and that, and all of this, dance scene can stay, cut this". Still like I said prior Disney has the final say and will do what they think will make money. The hype now got a lot of lgbt to see the film, but didn't have anything major in it to piss off parents that don't want their kids exposed to gay in kids films. Disney gets all the money; Disney wins again!

well either the director Lled or Disney cut something because based on what I heard Lefou was hardly in it outside of the scenes he was originally in,

 

and addtionally the character they set him up with is just as offensive

 

According to Chappy his love intrest is the guy the Beast's Wardrobe forces to wear Drag during the battle scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VrSBCIOGQU

 

except he acts happy when he comes out of the closet (  S: ) in the live action remake, instead of freaking out

[Gyaos]

Per a Russian pen pal of sorts, Russia has rated the film 16+ because gay LeFou is unacceptable for children.

 

https://www.kinopoisk.ru/news/2905759/

 

Article is in Russian, so you'll have to take his word for it...

[mochi]

Per a Russian pen pal of sorts, Russia has rated the film 16+ because gay LeFou is unacceptable for children.

 

https://www.kinopoisk.ru/news/2905759/

 

Article is in Russian, so you'll have to take his word for it...

yeah, well that's no shocker

 

my anger over this whole thing softened a bit

 

but I'm still vaguely annoyed though, this whole beauty and the beast Fiasco just makes me even more sure that LGBT characters are basically gonna remain as vaguely insulting background/best friend characters in mainstream works of fiction and won't ever really be integral to the story unless the story is targeted at a niche market of actual LGBT people

[HardcoreHunter]

To be fair it's kinda a self imposed stereotype by the vocal minority. They want the gay representations of themselves to be flaming camp gay case in point Anderson Cooper not being popular with gays.

[mochi]

To be fair it's kinda a self imposed stereotype by the vocal minority. They want the gay representations of themselves to be flaming camp gay case in point Anderson Cooper not being popular with gays.

that's.....unfotunately true actually

 

gay hollywood writers seem to think making characters like this

is good representation

 

the CW's Archie Comics Drama riverdale is the most noteworthy example I can think of

in Archie Comics they went out of their way to NOT make Kevin be a stereotype, he acted just as lawfully masculine as any of the other guys in the comic do, and the only Gay thing about him was that he fell in love with other guys, he even almost ended up hating Veronica because when she found out he was gay she tried to turn him into gay "gay best friend" and started asking him for stereotypical favors like giving her a makeover(basically she treated him like shit for being gay) so he told her off

in Riverdale he's loud, bitchy and LOVES being called a "gay best friend" basically he's Kurt Hummel with a less effeminate voice

[HardcoreHunter]

The walking dead does pretty well with gay characters. There are three gays and one living lesbian at least. Two of the gays are pretty important to the season thus far. The other one is more camp stay at home and cooks type. Then the girl is ehh ever since her introduction. There was another girl that was dating the one that they killed off.

[mochi]

The walking dead does pretty well with gay characters. There are three gays and one living lesbian at least. Two of the gays are pretty important to the season thus far. The other one is more camp stay at home and cooks type. Then the girl is ehh ever since her introduction. There was another girl that was dating the one that they killed off.

since when?, the only "Gay" character in the walking dead I knew of was this one character who didn't appear to be Gay in the show and the showrunners said he was actually just "prison gay" meaning he was straight but fucked men out of desperation when he couldn't find a woman, in an interview

 

something must've changed

[HardcoreHunter]

Season 6 they introduced Aaron and his partner forget his name. Aaron is probably the best survivor out of the group that Ricks team joins.  Season 7 introduces a character named Jesus that is good at fighting, stealth/recon, and has good leadership skills but chooses to be a runner and middle man for the groups.  Season 5 they added the girl but she has been ehh and flaky ever since she joined. They had a plot with her being with a girl in season 6, but it involved how she was only with the one because it was the only other lesbian in town and didn't want it to be a serious relationship.

[Kohikki]

Still don't really get why they picked Le Fou when Cogsworth and Lumiere are literally right there?

 

Like Disney, you already had the perfect set up for your gay characters?

 

[HardcoreHunter]

Cogsworth maybe, but Lumiere was an established french stereotype womanizer. At best they would make him go full on sexual deviant, but it would be out of place for a kids show.

[mochi]

Still don't really get why they picked Le Fou when Cogsworth and Lumiere are literally right there?

 

Like Disney, you already had the perfect set up for your gay characters?

I made a post on tumblr voicing my theory on this

 

long story short Disney has decided to make their villains be their canon's representative LGBT characters, the disney channel TV movie Descendants even goes out of it's way to use "evil" as a metaphor for being Gay, their villains have always been queer-coded so the lazier thing to do is canonize all their villains as gay

 

apparently they don't care how homophobic equating Evil with Homosexuality ends up seeming, or are so dumb that they don't realize it

[HardcoreHunter]

One minor character I doubt is a conspiracy. It just seems like the gay community takes their wins where they can get them. Much like the huge number of people screaming they're lesbians at frozen just because no one ended up with a guy, and they equate the bond  between siblings to incest loving lesbians.  I mean his name is Le Fou, would you really want someone that goes by "the foul" as a poster child.

[mochi]

One minor character I doubt is a conspiracy. It just seems like the gay community takes their wins where they can get them. Much like the huge number of people screaming they're lesbians at frozen just because no one ended up with a guy, and they equate the bond  between siblings to incest loving lesbians.  I mean his name is Le Fou, would you really want someone that goes by "the foul" as a poster child.

most LGBT Disney fans are super unhappy with the decision to make LeFou gay

 

the only people who think it's wonderful and amazing are Disney

 

and they refuse to acknowlage all the Gay people complaining

[Kohikki]

Cogsworth maybe, but Lumiere was an established french stereotype womanizer. At best they would make him go full on sexual deviant, but it would be out of place for a kids show.

 

Fine, Cogsworth is gay and Lumiere is bisexual then

 

Not that whats established from the animated movie really matters though- considering that they're bound to change at least a good handful of established things from the animated film regardless.

[mochi]

Fine, Cogsworth is gay and Lumiere is bisexual then

 

Not that whats established from the animated movie really matters though- considering that they're bound to change at least a good handful of established things from the animated film regardless.

I also made a list on tumblr (and on here but the thread died quickly) of things they COULD make into a Gay prince or Princess movie

 

(including changes they could make to established movies remakes, like making Mulan continue living as Ping after being exposed, thus making her a Trans man),

 

but of course it's basically just venting since I'm sure Disney ignores that kind of feedback

[Kohikki]

The Mulan idea would be interesting, I would only steer away from it just because Mulan is based on a legendary woman and part of Chinese history. I'm all for swapping things up but stories based on legends that are empowering to people who already get very limited representation from Disney (and a lot of western media in general) should maybe be left as is. 

 

That being said, adding in a gay character anywhere as long as they're decently written and not just added to fill a quota (like the le fou thing) is always appreciated.

[mochi]

The Mulan idea would be interesting, I would only steer away from it just because Mulan is based on a legendary woman and part of Chinese history. I'm all for swapping things up but stories based on legends that are empowering to people who already get very limited representation from Disney (and a lot of western media in general) should maybe be left as is. 

 

That being said, adding in a gay character anywhere as long as they're decently written and not just added to fill a quota (like the le fou thing) is always appreciated.

I may as well repost the list I made on tumblr here

 

(spoilered for a slightly long read)

 

1. The Princes and the Treasure/ a story where two men are chosen to save a princess but on their quest to find her, discover they love each other (Disney HAS to know this story exists because it was the brunt of a prank several years ago wherein someone made a fake news story claiming Disney was making a movie based on it)

 

2. the Bravest knight who ever lived/ a story about a squire who grows up to be a knight, rescues a Prince and Princess and falls in love with the Prince

 

3. Apollo and Hyacinth/ Apollo is yet another LGBT greek god, and one they could make a movie about, Hyacinth was a man he loved who he created the Hyacinth flower to honor after he died

 

4. Several Hawaiian gods and goddesses/ I can name several Hawaiian goddesses who were Bi or Lesbians Wahineomo, Hi’laka, and Hopoe, Pauopalae, Omeo, Omeo also helped a Bisexual Prince fall in love with the goddess Pele, and he was also once in love with the male god Paoa

 

5. hire a Gay writer to make up an original one, it’s not that **neigh** hard

 

next stories that lend themselves well to LGBT re-interpertations(some of which Disney already did hetero versions of but could make Gay in the eventual live action reboots)

 

1. The little mermaid/ make Ariel a Boy and change nothing else and you’ve literally made the story a gay fairy tale, Hans Christian Anderson is believed to have written the story as a metaphor for his unrequited love for another man so it’s Gay to begin with

 

2. Mulan/ probably the closest Disney’s ever gotten to an LGBT movie in the past, just change Ping so that he doesn’t go back to being a girl when he’s exposed and he’s automatically a canonical trans man, and his love intrest a Gay man

 

3. Swan lake/ make Odette a trans woman swan and automatic trans woman romance

 

4. Hercules/ in the original myths Hercules had far more male lovers than he did female ones

 

basically if they did any of the above it would be far better than Lefou just being turned gay to fill a quota

[mochi]

also, the song "reflection" from Mulan is pretty blatantly a song about Gender Dysphoria

 

[mochi]

so someone claims Disney has a new show coming out in April called "Andi Mack", about a girl who discovers that her "sister" is actually her mother and that she is the result of a Teen Pregnancy

 

I bring this up because the same person claims the show also has a gay character as part of the main cast

 

I mean with Disney's track record I'm sure they'll be a stereotype, but this DOES confirm that Disney is trying to throw poorly written Gay characters into their media now to make up for lost time

[mochi]

HardcoreHunter[/member] I would like to retract my former rebuttal to your suggestion that the LGBT community is fragmented and tearing itself apart

 

because some asshole wrote an article coining the term "gaywashing"

 

the context was basically that they wanted the main character of Moonlight to be Bisexual, not Gay, and the fact that the character is gay pissed them off so they claimed the writer of the story (a black gay man btw) was biphobic and "gaywashing" a bisexual character

 

even though the writer is gay, not Bi, and the screenplay was based on his own experiences on some level

 

tldr: you're correct and I don't even think the Gay rights movement exists anymore cause we're too busy fighting each other to fight for our rights now

[Sandstone]

They haven't gotten the memo that they are behind the times by like half a decade already. Disney is like the least socially aware company to exist ever.... but you know what Mickey is cute, so I'ma keep going back to Disney World so I can bang lots of hot gay show guys in those mediocre hotels.

[HardcoreHunter]

tldr, it was literally a paragraph

 

Either way there is still a movement. If you look to the civil rights movement it was about as divided as the lgbt. The Black Panthers and MLK jr hated each other with a passion. The panthers viewed MLK as an Uncle Tom, and MLK viewed the Panthers as everything that was wrong with the movement. One side viewed that domination was the only way to succeed, and the other that acceptance was two sided and through peaceful protest and negotiation each side would eventually accept the others rights.

 

LGBT's has a couple of issues, one was trying to harbor every non-tradition sexuality under one banner.  The main issues though are that a large concentration of SJW are LGBT. On top of that the one screaming the loudest is usually the Bi and gender neutral community.  A lot of SJW's are just latching onto these groups as a pissing match of who is more sjw. They don't understand it yet they feel like they can fully represent it. It's easy to say that you don't identify with your gender yet still maintain normal relationship, or say you are bi by experimenting then going back into a normal relationship. However it misrepresents the group when everyone at a liberal arts college is a made up gender or bi. It's more at that point because they want to be the special snowflake that fits in with the other snowflakes. 

 

It has also become an issue that a lot of the snowflake members just want their own battle. They want the struggle that the civil rights movement had, they want what the hippies of the 60s stood against, they want their big battle that they can look back on and say that they changed something.  I have met SJWs like this that latched on, they actually get upset if you act normal around them, they almost want you to ostracize them. When you don't then they get annoyed and try looking for something to fight over. A while back I actually got targeted on the rebuild forum I modded for because I asked questions about someone who identified as gender neutral. It was a new concept to me and I didn't understand it, so I tired to understand what it was. Turned out I was an asshole for trying to be understanding of something that I just heard about. Got kicked off the podcast I was a part of, the girls friend came onto the forum and tried to slander me as a pedophile. The girl with the gender identity's boyfriend contacted me on facebook and apologized for how that went down, which was a chill thing to do, however their gay friend who I had talked with on asmb for 8 years was also a mod and tried to have me removed as a mod and from the site. It got to the point where members like CAC and a large majority of the board just threatened to have a walk out if I were removed. From their friend who was slandering me joined the podcast, and things degraded till the site shut down a couple weeks ago.  It really shows how SJW can kill movements.

 

Some people would have been in my shoes and blamed the LGBT community about it, but I know that it's SJWs, and that they don't represent the LGBT as hard as they try. However it's instances like that which hold back real progressive movements. It's why no one wants to market to a group that is in the minority when they are so heavily divided and attacking their own group. It's to the point where a lot of people have had it with SJWs and are not catering to them and are just fighting back against them. Unfortunately it's heavily concentrated in the LGBT group. Thus it fights back against any progression the real community would like to have.

 

tldr; Vocal minorities within a majority are still smaller than the silent majority. We are all representatives of our race, culture, and sexuality; but at the same time represent nothing more than ourselves. A banner used for support and protection will inevitably be weighed down by those leaning to heavily on it, till it falls upon the bystanders.  A banner should never be used as a representation of it's people, but rather it's people should be representations of their banner.

[mochi]

evidently Disney has now banned the ep of Star Vs. with the gay kiss

 

guess they decided homophobia was more cost effective ::]::