dragon ball super Dragon Ball Super Episode 123 Discussion

[ben0119]

On 8/12/2019 at 10:24 AM, Roymustang1990 said:

All those examples just seemed like rule bending to me besides gohan blocking  them with his aura(I didn't know you could block attacks with your aura 0-o)

So I did some research. I found out  that the cell tanking Krillin destruction disc was a filler only thing and still dont think dragonballsuper isn't  really canon so I guess it explains why those writers  of those scenes bended around  toriyamas golden rule for destruction disc "its suppose to cut through anything no matter the defense number".

Oh, well, I see.

I'm sure we've seen other instances where characters blocked or withstood attacks by using their aura.  Either way, Gohan didn't actually touch the edges of the discs!  The Cell part was still cool, though.  And I can legit see Jiren's working because he punched the discs on the flat part, right?  And then he caught the other one.  So he countered them while looking like a badass, but didn't touch the edges.  I think that's valid. 

Is the Gohan thing canon?

Super probably really isn't canon given that it's not wholly created by Toriyama, and it's not adapted from a manga, either.  Even with all the craziness and goofiness of Toriyama over the years, he was consistent with the characters and their personalities, and a lot of the rules and lore, at least while he was making the series, anyway.  Of course, I don't take any of the nonsense he's said since then as canon, since it directly contradicts things, like what he's said about Goku's personality, that he just cares about fighting strong people.  Goku liked to fight but he clearly cared about people, and this was seen all throughout the series.  So yeah, that's basically just like the random stuff that J.K. Rowling will say.  It may be said by the original creator, but it's not in the actual story, so it's not canon.

Edited August 17, 2019 by ben0119

[Roymustang1990]

On 8/16/2019 at 10:18 PM, ben0119 said:

Oh, well, I see.

I'm sure we've seen other instances where characters blocked or withstood attacks by using their aura.  Either way, Gohan didn't actually touch the edges of the discs!  The Cell part was still cool, though.  And I can legit see Jiren's working because he punched the discs on the flat part, right?  And then he caught the other one.  So he countered them while looking like a badass, but didn't touch the edges.  I think that's valid. 

Is the Gohan thing canon?

Super probably really isn't canon given that it's not wholly created by Toriyama, and it's not adapted from a manga, either.  Even with all the craziness and goofiness of Toriyama over the years, he was consistent with the characters and their personalities, and a lot of the rules and lore, at least while he was making the series, anyway.  Of course, I don't take any of the nonsense he's said since then as canon, since it directly contradicts things, like what he's said about Goku's personality, that he just cares about fighting strong people.  Goku liked to fight but he clearly cared about people, and this was seen all throughout the series.  So yeah, that's basically just like the random stuff that J.K. Rowling will say.  It may be said by the original creator, but it's not in the actual story, so it's not canon.

Yeah I believe you that there were many instances on a character using their aura to block an attack like goku blocking trunks sword with his finger,though they never give the viewers an explanation on how it works.it just happens and you just go along with it and have to theorize for yourself what happened  x-x

The gohan thing wasn't filler for sure

I don't know .I feel like the destruction discs jiren countered were nerfed beyond their intended use since no fatalities are allowed in the tournament in the first place.destruction disc should honestly have been banned but we now know the super writers don't care about the rules toriyama established,they just wanna make new cool action scenes that haven't been tried before lol

Agreed what you said about super being Canon or not

Yeah,I kinda hate how toriyama himself forgets the lore he created,like how himself forgot he created  a super saiyan 2 transformation most likely because it's look a bit too similar to ssj1  ,or how he thought 18s hair was originally colored purple instead of yellow. x-x he should stop doing interviews like those until he revises the lore he created

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Roymustang1990

[Daos]

13 hours ago, Roymustang1990 said:

Yeah I believe you that there were many instances on a character using their aura to block an attack like goku blocking trunks sword with his finger,though they never give the viewers an explanation on how it works.it just happens and you just go along with it and have to theorize for yourself what happened  x-x

The gohan thing wasn't filler for sure

I don't know .I feel like the destruction discs jiren countered were nerfed beyond their intended use since no fatalities are allowed in the tournament in the first place.destruction disc should honestly have been banned but we now know the super writers don't care about the rules toriyama established,they just wanna make new cool action scenes that haven't been tried before lol

Agreed what you said about super being Canon or not

Yeah,I kinda hate how toriyama himself forgets the lore he created,like how himself forgot he created  a super saiyan 2 transformation most likely because it's look a bit too similar to ssj1  ,or how he thought 18s hair was originally colored purple instead of yellow. x-x he should stop doing interviews like those until he revises the lore he created

 

Also take into account that Super was geared for little kids, and no blood is allowed. Kamehameha's no longer even kill people, they just lightly push them out of the ring. It used to disintegrate people. 

So we're not gonna see people getting cut in half by destructo discs.

[ben0119]

On 8/20/2019 at 6:56 AM, Roymustang1990 said:

Yeah I believe you that there were many instances on a character using their aura to block an attack like goku blocking trunks sword with his finger,though they never give the viewers an explanation on how it works.it just happens and you just go along with it and have to theorize for yourself what happened  x-x

The gohan thing wasn't filler for sure

I don't know .I feel like the destruction discs jiren countered were nerfed beyond their intended use since no fatalities are allowed in the tournament in the first place.destruction disc should honestly have been banned but we now know the super writers don't care about the rules toriyama established,they just wanna make new cool action scenes that haven't been tried before lol

Agreed what you said about super being Canon or not

Yeah,I kinda hate how toriyama himself forgets the lore he created,like how himself forgot he created  a super saiyan 2 transformation most likely because it's look a bit too similar to ssj1  ,or how he thought 18s hair was originally colored purple instead of yellow. x-x he should stop doing interviews like those until he revises the lore he created

Well it's obvious.  They're repelling it with their aura - their energy.  It's the same thing as when characters tank bullets with their body, etc.  But, apparently for sharp objects, you can't have it touch your actual body, so you need to use aura for swords or destructo discs?

Well it's either that or Goku didn't try to hit Jiren with them, or knew that he would counter them.  The ones he launched at Jiren were just for misdirection, after all.  Presumably he wouldn't use them against one of the scrubs from earlier.  Still... it's a bit risky.

I hadn't heard that.  I remember he said some nonsense that Super Saiyan 1 could be stronger than Super Saiyan 2 or 3 if you trained it up, because those are just powered up versions of Super Saiyan 1.  UHHH NO.  They're different transformations/states/forms and there's clear differences between them.  Now, someone could still train up each individual level and probably be stronger in Super Saiyan 1 than someone else in Super Saiyan 2, but not the thing he said. 

Even more annoying that since Trunks' hair is purple!  And that ridiculousness is how we ended up with blue hair Trunks!  I would have been even more infuriated if 18 not only had the wrong color hair, but had the color hair Trunks is supposed to have!  So a character closely involved with Trunks ends up with his hair color, but he gets blue... oh god.  I always thought Trunks hair was purple because Vegeta's was black (or brownish-black) and Bulma's was blue, so mix those together and you get purple.  Not everyone ends up with the hair color of one their parents.  Sometimes they end up with a mixture.  I was actually born with black hair, but it fell out and grew in blonde.  Then the blonde got darker over the years and now it's like a sandy brown (or really dirty blonde lol.)  It still looks blonde in some places if I get it cut short.  My mom had blonde hair and my "father" had black hair.  So that's like in between blonde and black.  Though I've heard some people say that Trunks had white hair, since some anime characters with white hair have or purplish or bluish tinge to it.  But nah, I'd say it's purple, maybe more on the lavender end, but not white, and definitely was NEVER BLUE!  Damn it, lol.

Really I'd take anything Toriyama says these days with a grain of salt.  He's either gone crazy and/or forgotten what he originally wrote, or is just full of crap, and/or trying to retcon it for who knows what reason.  But like I said, without pen put to paper, none of what he said counts lol.

Edited August 24, 2019 by ben0119

[ben0119]

On 8/20/2019 at 8:19 PM, Daos said:

Also take into account that Super was geared for little kids, and no blood is allowed. Kamehameha's no longer even kill people, they just lightly push them out of the ring. It used to disintegrate people. 

So we're not gonna see people getting cut in half by destructo discs.

Which I don't understand.  DBZ is an old series, so these kids would have to go back and watch the old episodes.  Well, wouldn't have to, with Dragon Ball you can pretty much jump in wherever usually, which is how I first did, starting with the Androids arrival way back when.  But it's still a sequel series.  It's better to see the previous episodes than not.  I guess Kai was shown and it was done less violent, wasn't it?  So they would've seen that.  Not saying they should make Super a gore fest since the original fans are grown up now, but at the very least it could be the same content level as original DBZ.

Well, kamehameha or any other energy attack only disintegrates people if they're not strong enough to take the blast.  So the people that got knocked out probably were strong enough to take it, like with Kefla, or the person knocking them out was holding back, as would've been done with the various scrubs.  Frieza's death beam is supposed to pierce through people though.  I guess he is holding back on it?  For destructo discs, just check my reply to RoyMustang.

Edited August 24, 2019 by ben0119

[Roymustang1990]

On 8/24/2019 at 3:35 AM, ben0119 said:

Well it's obvious.  They're repelling it with their aura - their energy.  It's the same thing as when characters tank bullets with their body, etc.  But, apparently for sharp objects, you can't have it touch your actual body, so you need to use aura for swords or destructo discs?

Well it's either that or Goku didn't try to hit Jiren with them, or knew that he would counter them.  The ones he launched at Jiren were just for misdirection, after all.  Presumably he wouldn't use them against one of the scrubs from earlier.  Still... it's a bit risky.

I hadn't heard that.  I remember he said some nonsense that Super Saiyan 1 could be stronger than Super Saiyan 2 or 3 if you trained it up, because those are just powered up versions of Super Saiyan 1.  UHHH NO.  They're different transformations/states/forms and there's clear differences between them.  Now, someone could still train up each individual level and probably be stronger in Super Saiyan 1 than someone else in Super Saiyan 2, but not the thing he said. 

Even more annoying that since Trunks' hair is purple!  And that ridiculousness is how we ended up with blue hair Trunks!  I would have been even more infuriated if 18 not only had the wrong color hair, but had the color hair Trunks is supposed to have!  So a character closely involved with Trunks ends up with his hair color, but he gets blue... oh god.  I always thought Trunks hair was purple because Vegeta's was black (or brownish-black) and Bulma's was blue, so mix those together and you get purple.  Not everyone ends up with the hair color of one their parents.  Sometimes they end up with a mixture.  I was actually born with black hair, but it fell out and grew in blonde.  Then the blonde got darker over the years and now it's like a sandy brown (or really dirty blonde lol.)  It still looks blonde in some places if I get it cut short.  My mom had blonde hair and my "father" had black hair.  So that's like in between blonde and black.  Though I've heard some people say that Trunks had white hair, since some anime characters with white hair have or purplish or bluish tinge to it.  But nah, I'd say it's purple, maybe more on the lavender end, but not white, and definitely was NEVER BLUE!  Damn it, lol.

Really I'd take anything Toriyama says these days with a grain of salt.  He's either gone crazy and/or forgotten what he originally wrote, or is just full of crap, and/or trying to retcon it for who knows what reason.  But like I said, without pen put to paper, none of what he said counts lol.

Repelling ordinary swords with your aura can still be pretty confusing lore though, I mean how do we explained trunk's sword cracking against Android 18's body when he swunged at her.Was it because her supposedly metallic body is a stronger substance than the sword,or her Ki that never stop running in her body,or her power level is just that much higher than the sword? we really don't know

I  mean I have talked to you about swords in db z though.I always wondered how a ordinary weapon can cut through through opponents stronger than the sword itself.is it because the sword automatically gains the power level of whoever wields it? those

 

Toriyama could have really explained those when he was doing those sections of the story but felt it wasn't necessary

Well,I guess we can agree the destruction disc's goku threwed against jiren weren't true Canon destruction disc to the slightest,it was more of a bluff,a diversion like you said

yeah,super saiyan 1 could never surpassed super saiyan 2,though I do remember seeing regular kid goku power level being higher than super Satyam 1 adult gohan gohan and adult goten in gt,even being able to take them out.I do know that dbgt is non canon though.still,Maybe that's was toriyama's mindset at the time when he answered that question

I see. Interesting story about your personal hair  color there lol

well,iirc bulma's hair could be seen colored purple in the Dragon ball manga and bulmas hair does kinda look identical to 18s(just her back hair that's straight) so that's probably another reason why he though 18s hair was originally purple? Lmao who knows lol

but yeah,it's definately to sad to see probably the most well knowned mangaka give misleading information on the lore he created.that's not cool.

[ben0119]

On 8/31/2019 at 11:10 PM, Roymustang1990 said:

Repelling ordinary swords with your aura can still be pretty confusing lore though, I mean how do we explained trunk's sword cracking against Android 18's body when he swunged at her.Was it because her supposedly metallic body is a stronger substance than the sword,or her Ki that never stop running in her body,or her power level is just that much higher than the sword? we really don't know

I  mean I have talked to you about swords in db z though.I always wondered how a ordinary weapon can cut through through opponents stronger than the sword itself.is it because the sword automatically gains the power level of whoever wields it? those

 

Toriyama could have really explained those when he was doing those sections of the story but felt it wasn't necessary

Well,I guess we can agree the destruction disc's goku threwed against jiren weren't true Canon destruction disc to the slightest,it was more of a bluff,a diversion like you said

yeah,super saiyan 1 could never surpassed super saiyan 2,though I do remember seeing regular kid goku power level being higher than super Satyam 1 adult gohan gohan and adult goten in gt,even being able to take them out.I do know that dbgt is non canon though.still,Maybe that's was toriyama's mindset at the time when he answered that question

I see. Interesting story about your personal hair  color there lol

well,iirc bulma's hair could be seen colored purple in the Dragon ball manga and bulmas hair does kinda look identical to 18s(just her back hair that's straight) so that's probably another reason why he though 18s hair was originally purple? Lmao who knows lol

but yeah,it's definately to sad to see probably the most well knowned mangaka give misleading information on the lore he created.that's not cool.

I had assumed it was because of how "indestructible" the Androids were.  Aspects of the Red Ribbon Saga, Androids, and Cell Sagas were seemingly inspired by Terminator.  Red Ribbon Saga had Super Android 8, and Major Metallitron.  Metallitron looked just like Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator!  I could be wrong, but that saga would probably line up with the original movie's release, and then with the Androids and Cell, it seems to hearken to Terminator II.  With time travel and everything.  So, the Androids have indestructible bodies like Terminators.  They break out of handcuffs and tank bullets too, which seems just like something a Terminator would do.  Though it makes me wonder what happened when Trunks tried to use the sword on his future Androids.  Trunks did say the ones in the present were stronger.  It could have something to do with the infinite energy, though.  Her power level was also higher than Trunks too, so that could be part of it.  Either way, it was done to show the power of the Androids, that they could easily whip all the Z Fighters, and even Trunks, who knows the most about them and is also a Super Saiyan himself, he and his mighty sword stood no chance either.  I don't know if Toriyama was thinking that much about the mechanics of it, or at least didn't feel the need to explain it.

I think the sword probably attains the power level of the person holding it.  Toriyama never really went into this, but it's always been a thing in stories, and to an extent in the real world, that "true swordsmen are one with their weapon."  So this is probably how it is in Dragon Ball.  The person's ki flows through the sword, even if it's not visible.  Maybe this was talked about with the power pole or other weapons earlier, but I can't remember.  A lot of the important concepts were laid out in the original Dragon Ball and not referred to again.  We didn't have flying explained again until when Gohan taught Videl and Goten.  Trunks' sword was also supposed to come from Tapion, but according to a movie that's not canon.  Doesn't say where it came from in canon, but I assume it was made by Bulma and probably of some super-strong material that she came up with or would be available to Capsule Corp.  And Dabura is the Demon King and his sword was created, or summoned, by him, so wouldn't exactly be a normal sword, either.

Well it's not that I think he held back on the energy on them.  Regardless of energy level of the discs, they are supposed to cut through anything, regardless of the target's energy level, as well.  More like Goku wasn't intending to hit Jiren with them, or knew Jiren could counter them anyway.  He couldn't anyway because you can't kill in this tournament.  He used them as a bluff and diversion, yeah.  And it would have worked if Jiren hadn't jumped up fucking rubble lmao.

Yeah GT definitely not canon, but looking back on it now, is probably more faithful than Super in a lot of ways, and creative with things too, like using the Tuffles, and making the final villains the Dragon Balls themselves was so fitting.  I thought Goku was made into a kid to reboot and nerf his power level, but I didn't remember that incident, lol.  Well like I said, you could train up each level to be stronger, and maybe you be could stronger at your Super Saiyan 1 to someone else who is noob at Super Saiyan 2, which is fine, but saying the others are just powered up versions of 1 and not their own, distinct forms, is bunk, lol.

I think her hair is purple at times in the manga, and blue at others. I've seen a lineup of her looks over the years in the anime and it actually changes there too.

Sometimes more green than blue.  But I mean, it's not really blue in the first place, it's turquoise, which has green in it, but I didn't realize her hair varied that much until I saw that pic.  Oh you mean her hairstyle in the Androids Saga?  Kind of similar to 18's I guess.  Maybe that is how it happened.  Still, oof.  When was the last time he looked at widely available pictures of his own characters?  Lol.

Found this on Reddit -

So Bulma's hair was only blue in the first chapter!  My life is a lie!  This is as bad as finding out Puar is male!

Here's an interesting thread on it.  Thoughts are Toei just liked her blue hair first chapter appearance better?  And here's another thread that just muddies the waters, lol.

As for 18...  Apparently him just plain old forgetting.  And to make matters worse, not even writing stuff down!

Yes he needs to stop.  T__T Or at least people need to stop asking him this stuff.  And I definitely hope most fans aren't taking what Toriyama says as gospel!

P.S. Sorry the post got so long, I had to do a deep dive there lmao.

Edit -

CORRECTION:

After seeing this post -

Damn it, Toriyama!

The iconic Bulma with motorcycle picture is still super-hot, though.  But I remember my friend getting the action figure of that and pretty sure she had blue hair!  Also for some reason Bulma likes to ride those scooters in that weird bent over position instead of actually sitting on the seats lol.

Edited September 2, 2019 by ben0119

[Daos]

They made Goku a kid to nerf him... but then he was still more powerful as a kid than all the other Z fighters put together.

[Roymustang1990]

On 9/2/2019 at 7:05 AM, ben0119 said:

I had assumed it was because of how "indestructible" the Androids were.  Aspects of the Red Ribbon Saga, Androids, and Cell Sagas were seemingly inspired by Terminator.  Red Ribbon Saga had Super Android 8, and Major Metallitron.  Metallitron looked just like Arnold Schwarzenegger's Terminator!  I could be wrong, but that saga would probably line up with the original movie's release, and then with the Androids and Cell, it seems to hearken to Terminator II.  With time travel and everything.  So, the Androids have indestructible bodies like Terminators.  They break out of handcuffs and tank bullets too, which seems just like something a Terminator would do.  Though it makes me wonder what happened when Trunks tried to use the sword on his future Androids.  Trunks did say the ones in the present were stronger.  It could have something to do with the infinite energy, though.  Her power level was also higher than Trunks too, so that could be part of it.  Either way, it was done to show the power of the Androids, that they could easily whip all the Z Fighters, and even Trunks, who knows the most about them and is also a Super Saiyan himself, he and his mighty sword stood no chance either.  I don't know if Toriyama was thinking that much about the mechanics of it, or at least didn't feel the need to explain it.

I think the sword probably attains the power level of the person holding it.  Toriyama never really went into this, but it's always been a thing in stories, and to an extent in the real world, that "true swordsmen are one with their weapon."  So this is probably how it is in Dragon Ball.  The person's ki flows through the sword, even if it's not visible.  Maybe this was talked about with the power pole or other weapons earlier, but I can't remember.  A lot of the important concepts were laid out in the original Dragon Ball and not referred to again.  We didn't have flying explained again until when Gohan taught Videl and Goten.  Trunks' sword was also supposed to come from Tapion, but according to a movie that's not canon.  Doesn't say where it came from in canon, but I assume it was made by Bulma and probably of some super-strong material that she came up with or would be available to Capsule Corp.  And Dabura is the Demon King and his sword was created, or summoned, by him, so wouldn't exactly be a normal sword, either.

Well it's not that I think he held back on the energy on them.  Regardless of energy level of the discs, they are supposed to cut through anything, regardless of the target's energy level, as well.  More like Goku wasn't intending to hit Jiren with them, or knew Jiren could counter them anyway.  He couldn't anyway because you can't kill in this tournament.  He used them as a bluff and diversion, yeah.  And it would have worked if Jiren hadn't jumped up fucking rubble lmao.

Yeah GT definitely not canon, but looking back on it now, is probably more faithful than Super in a lot of ways, and creative with things too, like using the Tuffles, and making the final villains the Dragon Balls themselves was so fitting.  I thought Goku was made into a kid to reboot and nerf his power level, but I didn't remember that incident, lol.  Well like I said, you could train up each level to be stronger, and maybe you be could stronger at your Super Saiyan 1 to someone else who is noob at Super Saiyan 2, which is fine, but saying the others are just powered up versions of 1 and not their own, distinct forms, is bunk, lol.

I think her hair is purple at times in the manga, and blue at others. I've seen a lineup of her looks over the years in the anime and it actually changes there too.

Sometimes more green than blue.  But I mean, it's not really blue in the first place, it's turquoise, which has green in it, but I didn't realize her hair varied that much until I saw that pic.  Oh you mean her hairstyle in the Androids Saga?  Kind of similar to 18's I guess.  Maybe that is how it happened.  Still, oof.  When was the last time he looked at widely available pictures of his own characters?  Lol.

Found this on Reddit -

So Bulma's hair was only blue in the first chapter!  My life is a lie!  This is as bad as finding out Puar is male!

Here's an interesting thread on it.  Thoughts are Toei just liked her blue hair first chapter appearance better?  And here's another thread that just muddies the waters, lol.

As for 18...  Apparently him just plain old forgetting.  And to make matters worse, not even writing stuff down!

Yes he needs to stop.  T__T Or at least people need to stop asking him this stuff.  And I definitely hope most fans aren't taking what Toriyama says as gospel!

P.S. Sorry the post got so long, I had to do a deep dive there lmao.

Edit -

CORRECTION:

After seeing this post -

Damn it, Toriyama!

The iconic Bulma with motorcycle picture is still super-hot, though.  But I remember my friend getting the action figure of that and pretty sure she had blue hair!  Also for some reason Bulma likes to ride those scooters in that weird bent over position instead of actually sitting on the seats lol.

Oh,terminator references! That never crossed my mind before,maybe it's because I haven't seen a single terminator movie since childhood (!maybe because I got creeped out f Rom that last scene) so the many references your bringing up  are most likely passing over my head.I definately have to give a rewatch of those soon

The character metallitron ! I completely forget he was a character that existed in the red ribbon saga.I

The 'becoming one with the sword' aspect is something I'd seen in jrpgs too.it look kinda obvious there that it's the character personal stats like strength or attack that give power to the sword,not the sword or weapon itself.though I will say that at least jrpgs offer the player to use stronger weapons that offer higher,better stats than the previous weapon throughout the progression of the story where as in dragonballz.the characters just stick with the same sword,eventually disposing it,never using it again.really wish that wasn't the case x-x

Here's a vid to refresh that fight into your memory

Yeah I agree with everything You said concerning the super saiyan power levels .apparently,The reasoning dbgt gaved for normal goku being able to handle adult gohan/goten in their ssj1 form was because he simply never stop training after the buu arc while gohan and goten quit fighting to go on and try and live a normal life.

YEah, the storyline was one of the only things I liked about the shadow Dragon arc for dbgt.that really felt like final arc material,probably even more than the majin buu arc.I also like each of the dragon villians had distinctive elemental powers  that we never really seen in the dragonball series at all.it's a very refreshing arc that felt it was trying something new while the others arc felt like kinda a rehash with a twist though your right though had the lore of the tuffles were expanded upon,that's a plus for sure

I  wasn't really a fan of the whole super saiyan 4 transformation form,even if it did made more sense to the canon. It just didn't have that same visual appeal to me which is a shallow reason I know.I really dont know how to explain my dislike for it x-x i did enjoy super Saiyan 4 gogetas appearance though,that's probably because I really like the shadow Dragon arc in general

the 18 link was talking about exactly why I brought up with you last week lol

And No,when I was comparing 18s hair to bulmas.I was thinking of the very first hairstyle we saw bulma wearing for the first chapter/episode of the Dragon ball series but you are right that bulma's hair did look similar to 18 at a point in the Android arc.it's interesting to know how b ulmas hair color changes to green and turquoise back and forth in the anime because separate opinions between the anime staff and toriyama forgetting lol

 

I'm usually used to reading long posts on other forums so it's no sweat but it's great to see responses like this,not one of my real life friends or family members are  even capable of talking about Dragon ball  in depth like this and one of them still claims to be a hardcore fan like me but whenever we try having discussions like this,he's usually fast to stop responding.yeah,that's not a hard core  db fan right there so appreciate the effort

I also apologize for the sloppy organizing and lousy grammar  used here on this  long post,especially the grammar,my auto correct on this kindle fire is is one of the worst i experienced  on devices when it comes to spellcheck

Edited September 8, 2019 by Roymustang1990