"Two Spirits" in native American culture

[mochi]

Two Spirit is a term used in native American tribes to reffer to people who "see the world with both a man and a woman's perspective"

 

Basically it sounds like it means the same thing as being "Genderfluid" would mean to a non Native person

 

but people constantly equate it to being Gay....which isn't...exactly the same

 

A Gay person doesn't feel that they are a mix of both genders like a Genderfluid person does, they're just a person who is a particular gender, but also happens to be romantically and/or sexually attracted to people of the same gender as they are

 

 

so I'm curious if there even is a concept of just being a person who's attracted to the same sex as your own, in traditional native culture, or if they just automatically declared you a genderfluid two spirit if you ever displayed a romantic attraction to a same sex person:|

[Bouvre]

""The elders will tell you the difference between a gay Indian and a Two-Spirit,” he said, underscoring the idea that simply being gay and Indian does not make someone a Two-Spirit."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/fashion/08SPIRIT.html?_r=0

[mochi]

""The elders will tell you the difference between a gay Indian and a Two-Spirit,” he said, underscoring the idea that simply being gay and Indian does not make someone a Two-Spirit."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/fashion/08SPIRIT.html?_r=0

so, my thought that it's more like being Genderfluid than just gay is correct?

either way the end of that article pretty strongly implies they don't like Gay people because they view being Gay to be a "white man's invention".....which is also horribly closed minded

basically sounds like they think any LGBT Native who doesn't abandon the Gay label and call themself a Two Spirit somehow doing something selfish

of course I could be misinterperting the meaning

 

either way it doesn't matter much since I'm not native american

 

I may reread it because I'm not sure I totally read it right the first time

 

edit: reread it, it's not really the same as what a western person would call an Identiy label at all, it's more like a role or job within some Native American communities, basically it denotes what your job within the tribe is

[1pooh4u]

so, my thought that it's more like being Genderfluid than just gay is correct?

 

either way the end of that article pretty strongly implies they don't like Gay people because they view being Gay to be a "white man's invention".....which is also horribly closed minded

basically sounds like they think any LGBT Native who doesn't abandon the Gay label and call themself a Two Spirit somehow doing something selfish

of course I could be misinterperting the meaning

 

either way it doesn't matter much since I'm not native american

I feel like we read two completely different articles : o

[mochi]

I feel like we read two completely different articles : o

I may re-read it, I'm not sure but it sounded to me like they believe the "western" LGBT labels to be made up and their own Two spirit label to be the only one suitable for their community

[mochi]

yeah I misread parts of the article, still not 100% clear though

 

maybe I never will be, article makes it sound like something you can only understand if you are a Native American

[1pooh4u]

I may re-read it, I'm not sure but it sounded to me like they believe the "western" LGBT labels to be made up and their own Two spirit label to be the only one suitable for their community

I didn't get that at all.  The article never called it a white man's invention, or said you have to say you're two spirit even if you're gay or because you're gay.

From the article:

Jaxin Enemy-Hunter, 28, who helped Mr. Bane with last-minute stitching on his moccasins, found it rewarding to see people who were not raised in the Two-Spirit tradition embrace it, but their journey was not his. Growing up on a Crow reservation, he had been singled out early by his great-grandmother and given a double helping of education: studying with the boys and then studying with the girls when the boys played. He described the experience as both high status and extremely stressful.

 

The article even says that some tribes see Two Spirits not as any type of orientation but as a role in their community......the prejudice against the two spirit and LGBTQ Native Americans

are Christian influence, that they did say.

[mochi]

I didn't get that at all.  The article never called it a white man's invention, or said you have to say you're two spirit even if you're gay or because you're gay.

From the article:

Jaxin Enemy-Hunter, 28, who helped Mr. Bane with last-minute stitching on his moccasins, found it rewarding to see people who were not raised in the Two-Spirit tradition embrace it, but their journey was not his. Growing up on a Crow reservation, he had been singled out early by his great-grandmother and given a double helping of education: studying with the boys and then studying with the girls when the boys played. He described the experience as both high status and extremely stressful.

 

The article even says that some tribes see Two Spirits not as any type of orientation but as a role in their community......the prejudice against the two spirit and LGBTQ Native Americans

are Christian influence, that they did say.

oh, okay that makes more sense....it's not so much a rigid label like western labels are, it's more of a role or job description within their community

 

I was (rather ignorantly) under the impression that it was meant to somehow act as a replacement for the western LGBT identity labels