granzchesta Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Ahh, this episode was so beautiful! I loved this depiction of the afterlife and it reminded me so much of Spirited Away! The scene of him on the boat with Matsuda was very beautiful and I'm glad he chose Shin to watch his performance after all, with a nod to Yotaro. I also have to say this was one of those rare instances where I actually liked Miyokichi, although Sukeroku showing off his scar in the bath did kind of have me cringing for a bit. I didn't necessarily hate her during the first season, and there were a lot of times where I just felt really bad for her, but if only things could have been different between her and Konatsu. I'm glad we got to see a little reconciliation, even if it's just in the afterlife. As for the preview, it's easy to guess who these young teenagers are, so I'm just as excited! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Matsuda rowing him away was a very nice touch. So I just watched episodes 10 and 11, and from when they arrived at the theater, I started crying. But when that reveal happened, that fucked me up hard. They'd been together for so long, it was just so perfect. I'm still crying thinking about it, and I don't know if I will ever forget it. I don't know how they could possibly screw it up on the last episode to make it less than the best show of the season, but I really hope that doesn't happen. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cry myself to sleep, because I'm not getting anything else done tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 You were obviously more emotionally connected than I to that sendoff and their relationship. It was nice as I said, got a smile from me, but certainly no tears. Which is pretty much me just trying to say that episode 11 not having the same impact on me that 10 did definitely opened the door for Kobayashi to swoop in and be my number 1 of the season. Not to say it's a guarantee of course, neither is over juuuuust yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 Welp, our finale has arrived at last. And, as expected, we've got a timeskip. 16 years. There were some surprises. Firstly....holy hell, Matsuda's still alive! 95 years old, my god man...good for you. And I gotta admit, his reflections near the end were actually what teared me up the most in this one. But I gotta get EyeOfPain[/member] thoughts. I'm very relieved to get confirmation that what really happened all those years ago remained a secret between them, a wise decision as far as I'm concerned. I can't say the same for bringing up the implications of Shin maybe being Yakumo's biological son. Eww...no show, just...no. That aside it was wonderful seeing everyone aged. Yotaro taking his place as the ninth Yakumo, Konatsu hers as the first female rakugo performer(though seeing her perform again woulda been nice), and their kids turning out so well. I loved Yotaro's scene with Shin, who clearly loves him deeply and considers him his father unquestioningly. And I'd say his daughter is definitely a daddy's girl. There were some nice nods to Yakumo such as his appearance in Shinigami, as well as a satisfying resolution to the fate of rakugo in general. This was pretty much as perfect a sendoff for these characters as I could have envisioned barring maybe 95 year old Yakumo being in a wheelchair besides Matsuda's. But that's debatable and his sendoff was handled excellently anyway. Anywho my final thoughts? Well as I explained last week I consider this season better than the first simply because it focused on the characters I was more interested in. The first of those two groups that the camera scrolled by near this episode's end. Was it the best show this season? Maybe...ask me again after Kobayashi finishes, but at this moment I'd say...yes. Either way there's really no doubt about it: Taken as a whole this 24 episode series is an anime masterpiece. 9/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I can't say the same for bringing up the implications of Shin maybe being Yakumo's biological son. Eww...no show, just...no. The conversation about Shinnosuke's lineage was, yeah, a little... hm... But the waterworks started when I saw Matsuda was still around. He was given a new purpose by the 7th, saw the 8th off to the other side at the end of his life, and watched the 9th become a true master to lead a new generation of rakugoka. Of course, it was also nice to see Yotaro-Sukeroku-Yakumo, Konatsu-Kosukeroku and Shinnosuke-Kikuhiko all embracing Rakugo, whether it's the classics or the new stories. And Konatsu's gotten even more sharp-tongued in her old age, but I was disappointed we didn't get to see any of her rakugo as a master. Also, I found this article, so there have been female rakugoka for about 16 years, and Shinnosuke had a smartphone, which places it a bit later, but maybe I just misinterpreted the timing. Shinnosuke's telling of "Hatsutenjin" was good, but I didn't feel a great emotional reaction to that story in particular (it was weird seeing him so dour when he was so hyper just last week). Yota's performance of "Shinigami" was powerful, and despite Yakumo's interruption, he gave a satisfying ending like a true performer. And I was worried he'd suffer the same fate as the 7th and 8th at the end, but thankfully that's not the case and he can continue leading rakugo to heights it hasn't seen in the previous 20 or so years. 16 years does seem like a long time to rebuild Uchikutei, but maybe it was a matter of funding to rebuild it just as it was in the past. So yeah, still an emotional episode, but didn't wreck me quite as bad as 11, and I would have like to see one last performance from Konatsu, but that went by so fast, so I don't know how they could have fit that in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Oh wow, actual real-life sources...nice. Yeah, episode 10 definitely still hit me the hardest emotionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 "The Zoo" is one of the few rakugo stories performed in English, and there are a few performances done by female rakugoka: "Time Noodles" is another, and we saw that in the show, too: And a somewhat abbreviated performance of "Jugemu" in the Osaka style of Rakugo: And with Konatsu fully embracing rakugo, this is clearly the lead-in to Joshiraku. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 I attempted that show years ago but found it too boring. I may hafta try it again after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I attempted that show years ago but found it too boring. I may hafta try it again after this. Like rakugo, it relies very, very heavily on puns. I think about half the episodes have more liberal subs that try to preserve the spirit of the jokes, and the other half is much more literal, and not quite as amusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 I literally tried one episode at the time so...yeah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granzchesta Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I will be honest, those implications did sour the finale for me a little. I never would have thought about it and thanks to this episode I am thinking about it and ugh. No thanks! I'll take the gang boss any day. However, I loved how Konatsu handled the subject. Best to keep it with her to her grave! Yotaro is a great dad to Shin as it is. I really wish we should have watched Konatsu perform and it really would have made the finale for me. However, I thought Shin's rakugo was hilarious! His child impression got a few chuckles out of me. And damn, Matsuda is still going strong! So happy about him being able to attend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I will be honest, those implications did sour the finale for me a little. I never would have thought about it and thanks to this episode I am thinking about it and ugh. No thanks! I'll take the gang boss any day. However, I loved how Konatsu handled the subject. Best to keep it with her to her grave! Yotaro is a great dad to Shin as it is. If they'd dropped that conversation, they might have had some time to show Konatsu performing just a bit of rakugo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Damnit Eye, I said the same damn thing so where's my upvote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Damnit Eye, I said the same damn thing so where's my upvote? I was too excited from the episode and forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 I was too excited from the episode and forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gina Szanboti Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 Just checking in to see if everyone went as batshit over Shin's parentage as other places. Myself, I like it, for a bunch of reasons. I like that he's got Kikohiko, Sukeroku and Miyokichi's genes all mixed up together in there. I like that Konatsu knew what she wanted and it worked out for her exactly as planned. She ended up with a career in rakugo, a husband she loves, two cool kids, and a community of friends and admirers. Nothing bad there. No one was harmed in the making of Shinnosuke. If it helps at all, consider this: Konatsu never saw Yakumo as her father. To her he was the man responsible for the death of her father (and mother). Since feeling familial affection toward him would have felt like a betrayal of her actual father, I think she sublimated it into an adolescent crush on him instead (which is kinda backwards from the usual defense mechanism of turning socially unacceptable desires into acceptable ones - but Konatsu is honey badger, she don't care about society. All that matters is what's acceptable to her). Nevertheless, she was pushing 30 before she managed to honey badger Yakumo into giving her what she wanted, so I'm kind of at a loss that some people see him as some sort of child molester or something. By that time though, I don't think she still had a crush on him, she just wanted his baby to give him a reason to keep doing rakugo and someone to pass it along to so it wouldn't die with him. I imagine there was a lot of arm twisting and Miyokichi guilt-tripping required to wear him down, but in the end he probably just agreed so she'd shut up about it. Anyway, I like the poetry of it. And show biz people are weird - namsayin? Great ending to a great series. My only disappointment was not hearing Konatsu's rakugo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 No Gina...there's literally no justifying that. Valiant attempt, and you're entitled to your opinion...but fuck no. It's shit, but was also the only really shit thing in the series, so I'll gladly give the show a pass and ignore it. Ignorance is bliss as they say, and it certainly applies here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gina Szanboti Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I guess I don't see why it needs justifying. They weren't related, they didn't have a father-daughter relationship, they were both presumably consenting adults (unless she pulled a Lot's daughters scenario on him), they hadn't been living together for a decade and even when they were before that, Yakumo was basically just giving her food, clothes and a roof. He showed her almost no affection, nor she him, during her formative years. As far as I'm concerned, if no one is forced or brainwashed into it, what two adults decide to do is their business, and it's no more immoral than her hooking up with the yakuza boss, which no one seemed to have a problem with. I dunno, it just seems like a funny point for people to choke on considering everything else that's happened in this series. Miyokichi was a prostitute and a mistress (meaning screwing lots of men, some of whom were married), Sukeroku slept around all over town when he had the money, Kikuhiko apparently gave in to Miyo a few times, but few enough that she could still ask, "Does he even like women?" Then there's all the yakuza stuff, who aren't exactly occupying the moral high ground here, and de facto child abandonment by both parents. But Konatsu consensually getting pregnant when she's around 30, by an unrelated man she does not view as a father-figure, is the unforgivable sin here? People baffle me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUU8800 Posted March 28, 2017 Author Share Posted March 28, 2017 ...see my previous post. Oh, and lovely pink btw. Oh, and also also forget baffling, it is my humble opinion that people in general are pretty fucking awful, but that's neither here nor there I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeOfPain Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 People baffle me. While your points make logical sense with regards to these characters, it still feels a bit weird to me, especially how Higuchi brought the topic up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granzchesta Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 I think I can somewhat agree with Gina, but it's simply not in my personal desires to accept it. Any other characters or circumstances, maybe. And she does make a point that it's the least problematic when compared to the previous generations' habits. I still prefer it to remain a mystery and really somewhat resent Higuchi for throwing that curve ball, as much as I like him. Regardless of who the father is, it is a very good outcome for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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