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Hollywood rumored to by eyeing live action Black Clover

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Hey does this clip remind you guys of anyone in particular?

 

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On 9/29/2020 at 4:36 AM, Daos said:

Hey does this clip remind you guys of anyone in particular?

 

Oo! Ooo! The 2020 Republican party!

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On 9/28/2020 at 4:30 PM, EmpressAngel said:

The Rock as Yami is a good idea, but let's not stop there. Cast The Rock as everyone and this garbage has a chance. Just give him different wigs and shrink him as necessary to play every character.

considering Yami is canonically Japanese it actually would not be good to cast the Rock as him.....but they'll probably cast Scarlet Johansson as him anyway so who cares

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On 9/27/2020 at 1:22 PM, Top Gun said:

The fact that you're attempting to defend a pile of shit like Black Clover while simultaneously not recognizing what made Mobile Suit Gundam an all-time classic pretty much discounts your opinions on everything.  Black. Clover. Is. Not. A. Parody.  It's a low-tier paint-by-numbers shounen that apes tropes from other better series without understanding how to properly use them.  The examples you're giving do not constitute parody by any definition of the word. Asta and Leopold arguing with each other was just fucking obnoxious, nothing else.  And I'm not even going to ask how or why you remember some offhand post I made three years ago, but you didn't even get my point right.  I stated that most of the okama depictions were problematic, but that Ivankov in particular was portrayed different.  Try again.

And FYI, most sane forums don't allow for multi-posting, because it's fucking obnoxious and turns threads into an unreadable mess.  Either actively participate in a conversation, or ignore it.  Stop spamming the shit out of every thread you post in responding to every single little minutia.

You talk about ham-fisted writing in Black Clover before (which is intentional, and One Piece isn't exactly subtle, either,) but the Gundam franchise in general is ham-fisted with its anti-war message, and comes off as pretentious.  Then you have cliche tropes like people from opposite sides of the war falling in love.   Amuro and Banagher being crybaby bitches.  Most characters are either bitches or scumbags, so why would I care if any of them die or whole cities or colonies get wiped out?  War is bad.  We all know that.  But lets keep making series after series about it so we can sell more action figures and model kits.  G Gundam was fun because it was over-the-top, silly, and cartoonish.  There was a Gundam with a sombrero and another one with a windmill.  And who can get BURNING FINGER!  The first season, at least, of IBO, wasn't too bad, because the protagonist isn't a bitch.  The second season is horrible because of characters being dumb and falling for obvious tricks, forced deaths, characters being gunned down by goons instead of dying in well done battles, and the ending.  I would rather watch any Robetech series over Gundam any day of the week.  But Black Clover seems to be making fun of the tropes, and itself, at times.  If that's not parody, it's pretty close.   Why would the writers put in an obnoxious scene just for the sake of it?  Rivals get into arguments in other shonens, but not in such a childish, simplistic way like that.  It definitely comes off as making fun of the trope, if not parody.  I have a photographic, elephantine memory.  I'm especially going to remember when someone says something as asinine as that.  I wasn't sure if it was in this forum or ASMB, but I did a search and it was here, and the post was still here.  You still defended Ivankov as being portrayed well, and I just told you why he wasn't.

Sorry I didn't get back to the thread sooner.  Plans just didn't work out like I'd hoped, heh.  I'll also consciously choose not to go on forums or social media etc if I'm tired, and/or might be in a bad mood, so I don't get fed up with people and possibly say something nasty.  I used to just quote multiple posts in a single reply, since I used to not like multi-posting, either.  But, isn't that even more unreadable than separate posts?  I think separate posts are cleaner and easier to read and potentially reply to than one post quoting and replying to multiple people.  It's not minutia.  If there is something I want to respond to, I'm going to respond to it, especially if the person was replying to me or referring to me.

On 9/27/2020 at 1:57 PM, EmpressAngel said:

Yes, straight guy. Tell the queer person who actively keeps up with the series that I don't know any better about queer representation in the series.

You did not read what I said correctly.  I was referring to the okamas introduced earlier in the series, not the ones you talked about in the spoiler part of the post, which I said didn't sound bad.  If you're trying to say those earlier okamas are decent representations, then you really don't know any better, regardless of being queer.  Or you just can't stand to admit a series and author you like would do such a thing.  Of course, there is also the whole concept some people have, that if a movie, tv show, etc had something insensitive or possibly even bigoted in it, it is wholly abhorrent and must be disregarded.  It has to be banished and the people involved in its creation fired and canceled, or at the very least given a disclaimer.  But no one is going to do that to a fanboy favorite like One Piece, are they?  They won't even drop the series.  Not to mention they are unlikely to have success against such a target, given it's Japanese.

On 9/27/2020 at 8:28 PM, Daos said:

Being self aware of the tropes you're using isn't parody.

You seem to be unable to grasp certain concepts, much like the long thread where you tried to claim Kirito wasn't a Mary Sue and not only that, Mary Sues don't exist because some people are just super competent at performing unrealistic tasks.

Do you not understand the difference between copying and parody? Is this concept simply out of reach for you?

I mean, anime sites like Mal don't have it listed as parody. I doubt the author considers it parody. Why do you? Because it copies stuff from other anime? 

At some point are you just going to admit you don't know what parody is?

Self-aware, and also making fun of the tropes, and the show makes fun of itself to an extent.  Asta saying "not using magic is my whole identity," is a prime example of the show making fun of itself.  Does it have to be referencing and making fun of something from a specific series and not making fun of general concepts and tropes to be considered a parody?  I didn't think that was the case. 

I granted that some Mary Sues probably exist.  Maybe Yugi or Alucard?  Yugi will always have some random card that we never saw before that is perfectly suited to the current situation, and almost never loses.  Alucard is OP as fuck and has only one major weakness, which is contrived and never explained why or how that catboy has his weakness.  He has his weakness because he does.  But no one cares because both Yugi and Alucard are fun to watch.  People called Kirito a Mary Sue because he put a computer together and got good at videogames by playing them a lot and level-grinding.  Really?  Especially when computers are like fucking Legos these days.  It wouldn't have been hard at all for Kirito build a computer.  The stuff he is "unrealistically" good at is base level nerdy shut-in gamer stuff.

There you go again treading MAL as some ultimate authority.  Ok lol.  I would have to ask the author, or someone else would.  No way to know for sure unless the author could confirm one way or another.  I still think, even if not outright parody, the show is not trying to be 100% serious a lot of the time and is definitely self-aware of the tropes, making fun of them, and itself.

On 9/27/2020 at 8:59 PM, PokeNirvash said:

It's Ben. I don't think he'll ever understand that just because one shounen series treats itself more comedically than others, sometimes to the point of attempted commentary on established tropes, it doesn't automatically make it a parody.

If you're looking for a real parody of shounen - one that Toonami's aired at that - here's one that definitely fits the bill.

Moreso than Black Clover, at least.

See at least you are more admitting to what the show is doing.  Black Clover is doing all that stuff, but other people will just say it's a dumb show.  Bobobo is definitely a parody.  So was Duel Masters.  That may have been gag dub, though.

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What is Bobo a parody of?

Are you sure you guys know the difference between comedy and parody?

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2 hours ago, ben0119 said:

You did not read what I said correctly.  I was referring to the okamas introduced earlier in the series, not the ones you talked about in the spoiler part of the post, which I said didn't sound bad.  If you're trying to say those earlier okamas are decent representations, then you really don't know any better, regardless of being queer.

I'm just gonna quote the part of my post you clearly did not understand.

On 9/21/2020 at 3:34 PM, EmpressAngel said:

The okama were considered fairly decent representation for their time, which was 10-20 years ago when most of them were introduced. Some of them look pretty bad by today's standard, because trans and queer representation has taken huge strides over the past decades and that includes within Japan.

Keywords there: FOR THEIR TIME. Representation is a constantly evolving concept. Something that was considered an acceptable joke a decade ago is no longer okay by today's standards, because that's just how progress works. 10-20 years ago, it was a positive step that the okama were simply written as good guys, even in a mocking way. Obviously that seems pretty gross when you look back on it, and it's telling that it's been basically a decade since we've seen them used for cheap jokes like that. Even now, when one of the villains is an okama, that's just another trait for his character and isn't being dragged out for laughs. Sure it would be nice if Oda released a public statement apologizing for his character writing back in the day, but the fact that the most popular series in Japanese history has had such an obvious change in how it depicts queer characters is huge in itself.

The evolution of representation isn't just affecting One Piece, either. When Tiger and Bunny came out in 2011, the hero Fire Emblem was seen as a funny but positive portrayal of a queer character. Now though, it's not hard to see why some people are a little uncomfortable with his/their gender and sexual identity being used for laughs, or the running gag where he gropes an obviously uncomfortable man's ass multiple times over the series. Revolutionary Girl Utena showed off a whole grab bag of sexual preferences, but boy howdy are most of those characters fucked up. Hell, Bleach gave us Charlotte, whose entire character basically came down to "Look at this ugly man in a fairy costume who thinks he's a pretty princess. Laugh at him!" Representation marches on with time, and in recent years we've seen some shows with more nuance like Yuri on Ice, Carole and Tuesday, and Sarazanmai where "He's gay, point and laugh!" isn't the be-all-end-all of the queer characters. In another decade we may look back on these shows and notice glaring flaws in how they depict gay relationships and characters, but they'll still matter as stepping stones towards creating series with even better representation.

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5 minutes ago, EmpressAngel said:

I'm just gonna quote the part of my post you clearly did not understand.

Keywords there: FOR THEIR TIME. Representation is a constantly evolving concept. Something that was considered an acceptable joke a decade ago is no longer okay by today's standards, because that's just how progress works. 10-20 years ago, it was a positive step that the okama were simply written as good guys, even in a mocking way. Obviously that seems pretty gross when you look back on it, and it's telling that it's been basically a decade since we've seen them used for cheap jokes like that. Even now, when one of the villains is an okama, that's just another trait for his character and isn't being dragged out for laughs. Sure it would be nice if Oda released a public statement apologizing for his character writing back in the day, but the fact that the most popular series in Japanese history has had such an obvious change in how it depicts queer characters is huge in itself.

The evolution of representation isn't just affecting One Piece, either. When Tiger and Bunny came out in 2011, the hero Fire Emblem was seen as a funny but positive portrayal of a queer character. Now though, it's not hard to see why some people are a little uncomfortable with his/their gender and sexual identity being used for laughs, or the running gag where he gropes an obviously uncomfortable man's ass multiple times over the series. Revolutionary Girl Utena showed off a whole grab bag of sexual preferences, but boy howdy are most of those characters fucked up. Hell, Bleach gave us Charlotte, whose entire character basically came down to "Look at this ugly man in a fairy costume who thinks he's a pretty princess. Laugh at him!" Representation marches on with time, and in recent years we've seen some shows with more nuance like Yuri on Ice, Carole and Tuesday, and Sarazanmai where "He's gay, point and laugh!" isn't the be-all-end-all of the queer characters. In another decade we may look back on these shows and notice glaring flaws in how they depict gay relationships and characters, but they'll still matter as stepping stones towards creating series with even better representation.

I saw that part and disagreed with it.  They were horrendous, yes, back then.  Sure the okamas could have been worse by making them villains or something but that isn't saying much.  It feels like people grade it on a curve because it's manga/anime or because it's One Piece and they like the series.  Or because it's Japanese?  But we shouldn't go easy for any of those reasons.  Japanese creators, such as Reki, have had interactions with American fans and learned how they can do better with how they write their characters.  Well yes that evolution is definitely a good thing, even without Oda making some kind of statement.

I never saw Tiger and Bunny and didn't know about that character.  I remember back in the day people wanted ASA or Toonami to air it.  That will be an awkward watch if I decide to watch it now.  And how were they allowed to call him Fire Emblem? 

Several of us had a big debate about Charlotte back then when he was first introduced.  It is never outright stated that Charlotte is gay.  If you watched that fight, a somewhat on the nose message was being put across - Charlotte may be ugly by most people's standards, but he is beautiful on the inside.  Likewise, Yumichika may be beautiful on the outside, but he is ugly on the inside.  Yumichika's character has consistently been an asshole the whole series.  So really, even though Yumichika is technically on the side of the good guys, he was not put over as a good person there.  Charlotte ends up coming off better despite being a part of Aizen's forces and losing the fight.

Yes ideally things would continue to improve.

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7 hours ago, Daos said:

What is Bobo a parody of?

Are you sure you guys know the difference between comedy and parody?

Shounen series in general. Really, it lies in the setting. Black Clover's universe is a generic fantasy world with no real comedic twist on it, while Bo-BoBo's has the world taken over by evildoers whose main motivation... is shaving everyone's heads.

True, I'm not exactly akin to what "parody" is - hence my earlier "parody, deconstruction, or neither" post - but still, there's no denying that Bo-BoBo is more a parody than Black Clover will ever be.

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On 10/4/2020 at 1:26 AM, ben0119 said:

Why would the writers put in an obnoxious scene just for the sake of it?

this is all black clover is

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14 hours ago, korosu said:

this is all black clover is

But that can't be!  There is a often a method to the madness.  A lot of things done in the show are tongue in cheek.  I personally thought the scene of Asta and Leopold childishly arguing was funny, for the reasons I stated before.

~

See, look, here is someone backing me up on the quality of Black Clover, and how great Noelle is, and the women in Black Clover in general.  In my view Noelle has one of the best and most satisfying arcs I've seen for a shonen character, period.

https://toonamifaithful.com/noelle-silva-gold-star-female-character/

And yup, Black Clover sure is doing some things better than fanboy darling My Hero Academia.  I was disappointed with how the women and side characters were utilized in My Hero Academia.  And yup, Black Clover is one of the only series to actually use teamwork.  Most other shows just have everyone split up to have one on one fights.

Edited by ben0119

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You constantly repeating a patently-false statement doesn't make it any less false.

And oh yes, the girl who does nothing but turn into a blushing tsundere mess at the very thought of a particular boy is totally a strong and well-written female character.

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Is the first movie just going to have the main character scream like a retard all day? Because if so I won't watch that either.

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4 hours ago, Top Gun said:

You constantly repeating a patently-false statement doesn't make it any less false.

And oh yes, the girl who does nothing but turn into a blushing tsundere mess at the very thought of a particular boy is totally a strong and well-written female character.

Nope sorry. Kevin Bacon wasn't in Footloose.

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6 hours ago, Top Gun said:

You constantly repeating a patently-false statement doesn't make it any less false.

As a wise man once said, "insanity" is best defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Which is reason #1 I don't even try to argue my opinion as superior to others, and just accept the fact that some people just dislike things I don't.

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if noelle is well-written, then you should be able to tell me the reason she wants to jump asta's bones. i don't think the show ever actually gave a reason.

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Or the reason Noelle's cousin Whatserfaise does. Or the reason the barmaid does. 

Oh right, shitty writing. 

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2 hours ago, Top Gun said:

Or the reason Noelle's cousin Whatserfaise does. Or the reason the barmaid does. 

Oh right, shitty writing. 

Ya gotta go back to the Mary Sue thread. Ben says some guys are just good with girls. Kirito and Asta have just got it.

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If Asta's so good with the ladies, then why hasn't he gotten Sister Lily to say yes to one of his many proposals yet?

(Before you say anything, yes I know she's a fucking nun, I'm being facetious you dolts. 😝)

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On 10/6/2020 at 5:10 AM, Top Gun said:

You constantly repeating a patently-false statement doesn't make it any less false.

And oh yes, the girl who does nothing but turn into a blushing tsundere mess at the very thought of a particular boy is totally a strong and well-written female character.

What patently false statement?

And did you actually read the article?  I didn't write it.

So if a girl takes interest in a guy that makes her no longer strong?  Some fine logic by you there.

On 10/6/2020 at 1:19 PM, korosu said:

if noelle is well-written, then you should be able to tell me the reason she wants to jump asta's bones. i don't think the show ever actually gave a reason.

https://www.cbr.com/black-clover-noelle-loves-asta/

But, after fighting alongside him on their first mission in the Sosshi village, seeing his willingness to sacrifice himself for the safety of others and his continuous support and encouragement of her training to control her water magic, Asta's charms began to take effect. Even more so when he came to Noelle's defense when her siblings derided her for "shaming the family name" by not being a powerful wizard. Asta's willingness to be friendly to and stand up for someone who didn't even like him led to Noelle eventually developing strong romantic feelings for him.

1566336897002.png

On 10/6/2020 at 5:39 PM, Top Gun said:

Or the reason Noelle's cousin Whatserfaise does. Or the reason the barmaid does. 

Oh right, shitty writing. 

Well Asta rescued Rebecca's family, for one thing.  He has fought alongside and helped out Mimosa as well.  He's a good, hard working, passionate, selfless, honest dude.  And he's jacked as fuck.

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dcbrnfz-f4b8a6c5-9193-4ada-baf9-89e3c2bc

Yes no reasons were ever given at all.  Y'all can talk shit all you want, but don't try to bullshit!

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If a girl turns into a babbling idiot and/or a generic violent tsundere at the mere thought of spending time alone with a boy, yes, that makes her poorly-written.  I'd be fine with the author having Noelle show interest in Asta if it was well done, but her ham-fisted "romantic" moments are just cringeworthy.  Naruto's relationships were a total clusterfuck, but hell, even it managed to do a better job at portraying something resembling actual human emotions than Black Clover has.

And no, just because a male character helps a female character out at some point does not mean she should automatically fall head-over-heels for him, nor should she be obnoxiously jealous when another female character shows interest.  That does nothing but cheapen the female characters for the sake of asinine harem hijinks.  Mimosa would be a fine character if she wasn't constantly fawning over Asta and shooting daggers at her cousin.  The barmaid is even worse, because she's a bit character introduced primarily for a single arc, so there's absolutely no story reason for her to fall for Asta other than creating cheap drama with Noelle.  Just have Asta help people, have them be grateful to him, and leave the bullshit out of it.

Edited by Top Gun
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I'd like to reply, but TG did just make a post I like. By Black Clover's logic, a man doing something I enjoy has turned me into a babbling idiot and I cannot mentally function until I react with generic violence towards him.

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1 hour ago, EmpressAngel said:

I'd like to reply, but TG did just make a post I like. By Black Clover's logic, a man doing something I enjoy has turned me into a babbling idiot and I cannot mentally function until I react with generic violence towards him.

Welp you know what ya gotta do. Launch that sucker like team rocket. Then yell BAKA!

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something else I wanna point out....they keep announcing Hollywood anime Adaptations.....and with like 2 exceptions, we never hear about these projects again

 

that, or close to a decade later a suspiciously similar but ostensibly unrelated movie comes out that doesn't credit it's obvious inspo at all

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On 10/11/2020 at 10:33 PM, Top Gun said:

If a girl turns into a babbling idiot and/or a generic violent tsundere at the mere thought of spending time alone with a boy, yes, that makes her poorly-written.  I'd be fine with the author having Noelle show interest in Asta if it was well done, but her ham-fisted "romantic" moments are just cringeworthy.  Naruto's relationships were a total clusterfuck, but hell, even it managed to do a better job at portraying something resembling actual human emotions than Black Clover has.

And no, just because a male character helps a female character out at some point does not mean she should automatically fall head-over-heels for him, nor should she be obnoxiously jealous when another female character shows interest.  That does nothing but cheapen the female characters for the sake of asinine harem hijinks.  Mimosa would be a fine character if she wasn't constantly fawning over Asta and shooting daggers at her cousin.  The barmaid is even worse, because she's a bit character introduced primarily for a single arc, so there's absolutely no story reason for her to fall for Asta other than creating cheap drama with Noelle.  Just have Asta help people, have them be grateful to him, and leave the bullshit out of it.

Dude, how many times does it have to be mentioned that Black Clover is not exactly 100% deathly serious at all times?  You might as well go by the logic of a certain dunderhead that used to post on ASMB that said any time Looney Tunes style violence happened in a show, complete with goofy art shifts in some cases, was ABUSE.  Like Winrey hitting Ed with her wrench.  It is ham-fisted intentionally for comedic purposes.  A lot of people think it's cute and funny how Noelle acts.  People like the type of character that puts up a rough exterior and acts like they don't like a person when in fact they're actually nice and do like said person, or people.  There's a reason tsundere characters are so popular.  Noelle is just an extreme version of this type of character, like many of the Black Clover characters.  And maybe you didn't watch the video I posted, but she is tsundere to other characters too, not just Asta, it's just more extreme in his case.

Man, now you really make it hard for me to take you seriously when you are trying to put Naruto's relationships over Black Clover.  This has even been discussed and compared multiple times here.  Naruto and Sasuke's relationship isn't even properly built up.  It consists of Naruto and Sasuke being little shits to each other, three whole "friendship moments" that the show constantly refers back to, and the characters constantly saying they're best friends.  It just makes Naruto come off as crazy that he is so obsessed with trying to "rescue Sasuke from himself" (an asshole character who was never even sympathetic,) or that Naruto is gay (or possibly bi, since he also liked Sakura, and ends up with Hinata,) since their relationship came off more as casual coworkers who were friendly with each other, then Naruto loses his shit because this coworker he wasn't even on that good of terms with transfers to another location.  Also Sasuke is a traitor, and we're supposed to think Naruto and Sakura are in the right, and that that the people who want to hunt him down and kill or imprison Sasuke are wrong LOL.  Bleach's Komamura and Tosen were better done and more convincing as 2 friends who had their friendship destroyed than Naruto and Sasuke, and those are side characters.  Asta and Yuno are better best friends/brothers than Naruto in Sasuke in like the first few episodes than Naruto and Sasuke are over the course of entirety of what Toonami has aired up to this point.  Hell, Kishimoto even admitted he is bad at writing women because he said he can't relate to them, and he made that awful statement about how Sakura can't change her mind about wanting to be with Sasuke.  Sasuke, who tried told her to fuck off and tried to kill her multiple times.  It was ridiculous.  But sure, put that asshole over.

Of course not, but it sure as hell doesn't hurt, does it?  And it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for something that could actually happen in a real relationship.  Like I said, a lot of people find that entertaining, the harem hijinks, or whatever you want to call them.  

Edited by ben0119

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On 10/17/2020 at 1:58 PM, mochi said:

something else I wanna point out....they keep announcing Hollywood anime Adaptations.....and with like 2 exceptions, we never hear about these projects again

 

that, or close to a decade later a suspiciously similar but ostensibly unrelated movie comes out that doesn't credit it's obvious inspo at all

I remember when the Bleach movie was announced, the American one.  It never did come out.  Later on Kubo revealed he kept fucking around with things that caused it to be delayed until that studio lost the rights to be able to make the movie, because he saw how they were going to screw it up. xD

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/bleach-hollywood-live-action-adaptation-bad-reasoning/

Though I can't really say I have kept track of movies coming out years after the fact that are similar to originally announced adaptations.  Which movies are you talking about?

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46 minutes ago, ben0119 said:

I remember when the Bleach movie was announced, the American one.  It never did come out.  Later on Kubo revealed he kept fucking around with things that caused it to be delayed until that studio lost the rights to be able to make the movie, because he saw how they were going to screw it up. xD

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/bleach-hollywood-live-action-adaptation-bad-reasoning/

Though I can't really say I have kept track of movies coming out years after the fact that are similar to originally announced adaptations.  Which movies are you talking about?

there was a proposal for a live action Evangelion adaption many many years ago, lots of planning and designing went into it, then it just never happened

then Pacific Rim happened, and lifts a lot from the proposals for the Eva movie

it's my conspiracy that it was what happened to the Eva movie after a decade of Executive meddling and a loss of movie rights

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58 minutes ago, mochi said:

there was a proposal for a live action Evangelion adaption many many years ago, lots of planning and designing went into it, then it just never happened

then Pacific Rim happened, and lifts a lot from the proposals for the Eva movie

it's my conspiracy that it was what happened to the Eva movie after a decade of Executive meddling and a loss of movie rights

Few years back when I spoke to Tiffany Grant about it. She said that there were legal issues with Gainax wanting more money since the Rebuild films were announced, but it was after the fact of them already signing the contract. So Gainax was just using money to keep it tied up in court. The studio that Sentai was working with on the film would have been Weta who worked on the lord of the rings films. Pacific Rim was made by Warner bros, so I don't think anything from the original concept was sold or stolen. 

I do think it's safe to say though that they did take a lot of elements from Eva, but I don't think there was anything more than concept drawings for the live action eva film. 

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