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Outlaw Star in HD on August 19th

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How many Toonami viewers were actually old enough to remember watching it back then. You're approaching it like the target demographic is 35-65 year olds instead of 18-24 year olds.

 

I'm 25 and was 9 when it aired, so I remember it clearly.

 

However, I never actually watched it when it was airing because I thought the art style was too pointy (ironic considering when they ran the Dreams promo to the ground a year later after the show was taken off Toonami the OS clips made me want to watch it). Huge mistake on my part.

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If you were born in the late 80s/early 90s and watched CN back then, it'd be hard not to know what it is. And a lot of younger viewers will have watched it on internet torrents or streaming sites in years since then because of all the acclaim it's received. I don't get why people want more of the same instead of NEW material. Wtf is up with that, Barely anything about Toonami is novel. You're getting rehashes, spin-offs, and HD remasters. Parasyte was amazing and new. Even Hunter x Hunter, which I hate, isn't new. Come on we've known the original Hunter for years even though it wasn't on TV. I hate Hunter, but I'm saying that genuinely new series have been few and far between.

 

Parasyte wasn't actually "new" since it was an adaptation of an older manga, which was written in the '90s!

 

But otherwise, you're actually spot-on that almost everything on Toonami right now is either an adaptation or a continuation of an adaptation of a manga that was written a pretty long time ago!

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Off topic: but I predict that AOT S2 will be replaced by FLCL s1

 

If we get a Labor Day and Halloween Marathon, it should end October 21

Assuming we get Thanksgiving off and the 2 weeks at the end of the year, that leaves 6 more Toonami's! That would fit perfectly

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Parasyte wasn't actually "new" since it was an adaptation of an older manga, which was written in the '90s!

 

But otherwise, you're actually spot-on that almost everything on Toonami right now is either an adaptation or a continuation of an adaptation of a manga that was written a pretty long time ago!

 

No, I mean that Parasyte was a new anime that you wouldn't have seen unless you watched it subbed on the internet. Dragon Ball Super, Hunter, Naruto, One Piece, Outlaw Star, it's all more of the same. It's the same mainstream shonen series over and over again. Toonami's done this long before it was revived, but that's what people genuinely hate about it. Other anime forums strove to get never before seen content whereas Toonami has tried to milk things that were once popular over and over again.

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No, I mean that Parasyte was a new anime that you wouldn't have seen unless you watched it subbed on the internet. Dragon Ball Super, Hunter, Naruto, One Piece, Outlaw Star, it's all more of the same. It's the same mainstream shonen series over and over again. Toonami's done this long before it was revived, but that's what people genuinely hate about it. Other anime forums strove to get never before seen content whereas Toonami has tried to milk things that were once popular over and over again.

Pretty sure HxH's dub is new. There was an old dub for the '99 version, but not 2011 which has 70+ episodes not previously adapted by '99.

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Nice. Perfect timing with me picking up the blu-rays as well. The HD remaster of this is really good too.

 

Even Hunter x Hunter, which I hate, isn't new. Come on we've known the original Hunter for years even though it wasn't on TV. I hate Hunter, but I'm saying that genuinely new series have been few and far between.

 

Even though this version started in 2011, I actually think this Hunter x Hunter is new enough that this airing is still many people's first exposure to it, and many (including me despite watching and owning a ton of anime) completely missed seeing the older series, especially since it's airing faster than the home release is coming out. Not to mention those who missed it or overlooked it just due to all of the available shonen running at the time.

 

More truly recent new stuff is always good though and I agree I'd like to see more.

Hell some of the stuff that was really new that I thought would be priority shows are slowly becoming older already lol.

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More truly recent new stuff is always good though and I agree I'd like to see more.

Hell some of the stuff that was really new that I thought would be priority shows are slowly becoming older already lol.

 

God I still want Ushio & Tora on the block.

 

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God I still want Ushio & Tora on the block.

 

 

Yep. Picking up the blu-ray of that. So hyped to see the rest with the dub after sampling the first couple of eps.

 

One example that I'm really surprised at was that Blood Blockade Battlefront didn't get gobbled up fast since it has the perfect combination of action, drama, and comedy for Toonami. Maybe it was too costly. Maybe with season 2 coming it'll get another shot since that'll give it a longer run if they pick it up.

 

I kind of think that them picking up Outlaw Star for the back of the block doesn't really effect new stuff though since they aren't likely to premiere really new stuff at the back end of the block.

We just know that a lot of the front is currently booked with two DBs, new Jojo just starting, TG still finishing the rest of its second half, Lupin the 3rd only being a few weeks in, and the just recently finished Japanese airing of Gundam IBO S2 we know taking one of the slots in the fall

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God I still want Ushio & Tora on the block.

 

looks a lot like Inuyasha except with a male Kagome

 

of course I'm sure they're just pals and there's no romantic subtext...because Japan

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when it comes to anime there's basically the mainstream US audience, which has seen almost none, and the niche US anime audience, which has pretty much seen it all.

 

Toonami bridges that gap by utilizing familiar franchises and it's worked very well for them.

 

If you want some kind of fresh avante-garde anime block, you probably won't find it on mainstream television.  The stakes are too high for them to fiddle around the fjords pleasing only small anime niche audiences.

 

Newness of a show does matter somewhat.  Recognizability matters somewhat.  Affordability also matters.

 

Toonami can take a ratings hit for something that costs them nothing to run.  And when the ratings come out, people are like "ooooh no the ratings are super low for that show" and, to a certain extent, they don't care as long as they aren't too low, and advertisers are still buying the block.

 

So Toonami, by design I think, is a block of mostly licenses, a preference for new shows, but not necessarily the budget for them, a bit of nostalgia and a track record of things that seem to work for them, and have in the past, and do now, serve to identify the block. 

 

Also Toonami is a brand.  It's an entire block, and functions very well as that.  Whereas other networks flounder somewhat more in terms of show for show hit and miss.

 

By choosing familiar shows, or shows that identify strongly with Toonami, they are strengthening that bond.

 

The One Piece thing is a good example of something I think that does okay, but not always quite as well as the rest of the block, but without it, the block as a whole is possibly more inclined to unravel than it would with it.

 

If Toonami suddenly began running all new anime, I think it would turn into just another hit and miss series of shows.  Also you'd have 6 or so shows on the block to attempt to explain to people why they should care.

 

They have a good formula.  Most of what they run, they run because it fits their budget, or they can haggle it down somehow, most often it's widely requested by their audience, which they keep regular data on including collecting show requests, and it fits their mission statement, which is anime and action cartoons.

 

And when left to their own, it's always worked very well.  Since the block's hit Adult Swim, it's been pretty consistently successful.  And it's exactly the sort of block networks need right now.  An identifiable entity/character unto itself.  Something that people are likely to stick with through several shows, rather than picking at this and that. 

 

And yeah, people do that.  But aside from a few 'back-to-back' type habitual viewing islets, I can't think of any other network right now that has something as dense as Toonami in terms of a programming block/brand.

 

I think that's invaluable.

 

 

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Luuv, you sound like Toonami's public relations spokesperson or something lol. I have to respectfully disagree all around. Nobody's saying that Toonami should just mindlessly air niche 3/10 slop just because it's fresh out of Japan, but at the same time their leaders claimed that there would never be older animation again on Toonami, and yet they lied about that just to put their precious Outlaw Star HD on while shutting down all other requests for equally old, sometimes superior series.

 

It's hard to know what to believe from their end anymore, the only thing that's certain is that Toonami is obsessed with trying to revive certain franchises such as Dragon Ball, Gundam, Sailor Moon (they tried to get the Viz dub), and even The Thundercats instead of moving on and moving forward. Did they even watch Gundam: IBO or DB Super before shoving them across the table? They keep getting new episodes of these two when it's clear that the fans, by and large, hate both of them.

 

Toonami's selection is nightmarish to say the least. If another network wanted to seriously get into the action animation biz, it could probably crush Toonami. Other networks get new material, but Toonami's the soda company that keeps pumping out Pepsi and modifying the label and design on the bottle while there are newer, better soft drinks out there to be explored.

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when it comes to anime there's basically the mainstream US audience, which has seen almost none, and the niche US anime audience, which has pretty much seen it all.

 

Toonami bridges that gap by utilizing familiar franchises and it's worked very well for them.

 

If you want some kind of fresh avante-garde anime block, you probably won't find it on mainstream television.  The stakes are too high for them to fiddle around the fjords pleasing only small anime niche audiences.

 

Newness of a show does matter somewhat.  Recognizability matters somewhat.  Affordability also matters.

 

Toonami can take a ratings hit for something that costs them nothing to run.  And when the ratings come out, people are like "ooooh no the ratings are super low for that show" and, to a certain extent, they don't care as long as they aren't too low, and advertisers are still buying the block.

 

So Toonami, by design I think, is a block of mostly licenses, a preference for new shows, but not necessarily the budget for them, a bit of nostalgia and a track record of things that seem to work for them, and have in the past, and do now, serve to identify the block. 

 

Also Toonami is a brand.  It's an entire block, and functions very well as that.  Whereas other networks flounder somewhat more in terms of show for show hit and miss.

 

By choosing familiar shows, or shows that identify strongly with Toonami, they are strengthening that bond.

 

The One Piece thing is a good example of something I think that does okay, but not always quite as well as the rest of the block, but without it, the block as a whole is possibly more inclined to unravel than it would with it.

 

If Toonami suddenly began running all new anime, I think it would turn into just another hit and miss series of shows.  Also you'd have 6 or so shows on the block to attempt to explain to people why they should care.

 

They have a good formula.  Most of what they run, they run because it fits their budget, or they can haggle it down somehow, most often it's widely requested by their audience, which they keep regular data on including collecting show requests, and it fits their mission statement, which is anime and action cartoons.

 

And when left to their own, it's always worked very well.  Since the block's hit Adult Swim, it's been pretty consistently successful.  And it's exactly the sort of block networks need right now.  An identifiable entity/character unto itself.  Something that people are likely to stick with through several shows, rather than picking at this and that. 

 

And yeah, people do that.  But aside from a few 'back-to-back' type habitual viewing islets, I can't think of any other network right now that has something as dense as Toonami in terms of a programming block/brand.

 

I think that's invaluable.

 

So do you think One Piece leaving was a mistake because it took away some of Toonami's identity?

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The problem isn't NEW it's GOOD. There just isn't much good stuff out there. Most anime has sucked, largely because it's a genre about quantity over quality, but the suck percentage has grown since time has gone on.

 

Let's face it, anyone could've probably watched any anime that's "new" on Toonami months before it aired. We're probably not going for people who are "watching" stuff now. Probably more like people looking for something to have on in the background or to know what episode is going to be discussed.

 

Without data, we can really just go on assumptions. We have no idea if people are watching for the first time, don't watch stuff online, just tune in for old faves ... no telling.

 

Well that's the big problem. The anime industry is much like the sitcom industry. It's a vast sea of horrible trash. You need dedicated anime fans on your team that can actually sift through the trash and find the few gems that might actually appeal to the US TV viewing public.

 

They aren't even trying to do that though. They're letting a couple dozen fans select anime on some tumblr poll. That's how we got TG.

 

Dimension W... they just took a shot in the dark. No one had seen it.

 

Toonami got away with this for years based on a strong Family guy lead in and great numbers for DBZ. But peak Family guy/DBZ has been reached.

 

It's a common mistake in the business world thinking that  hey... it worked in the past... so lets keep doing it. Kodak and Blockbuster learned that the hard way.

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Luuv, you sound like Toonami's public relations spokesperson or something lol. I have to respectfully disagree all around. Nobody's saying that Toonami should just mindlessly air niche 3/10 slop just because it's fresh out of Japan, but at the same time their leaders claimed that there would never be older animation again on Toonami, and yet they lied about that just to put their precious Outlaw Star HD on while shutting down all other requests for equally old, sometimes superior series.

 

It's hard to know what to believe from their end anymore, the only thing that's certain is that Toonami is obsessed with trying to revive certain franchises such as Dragon Ball, Gundam, Sailor Moon (they tried to get the Viz dub), and even The Thundercats instead of moving on and moving forward. Did they even watch Gundam: IBO or DB Super before shoving them across the table? They keep getting new episodes of these two when it's clear that the fans, by and large, hate both of them.

 

Toonami's selection is nightmarish to say the least. If another network wanted to seriously get into the action animation biz, it could probably crush Toonami. Other networks get new material, but Toonami's the soda company that keeps pumping out Pepsi and modifying the label and design on the bottle while there are newer, better soft drinks out there to be explored.

 

I don't think they're obsessed with reviving those franchises. I think it's the only anime they know about and are familiar with. And no, they don't watch any of it before airing it. That's how GXP got aired.

 

How dare you mock IBO! S2 will have 3x the lunch scenes making it 3x better!

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I don't think they're obsessed with reviving those franchises. I think it's the only anime they know about and are familiar with. And no, they don't watch any of it before airing it. That's how GXP got aired.

 

How dare you mock IBO! S2 will have 3x the lunch scenes making it 3x better!

 

LMAO! That's comedy gold. Seriously wth is wrong with the people who made those IBO lunch scenes?!

 

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I don't think they're obsessed with reviving those franchises. I think it's the only anime they know about and are familiar with. And no, they don't watch any of it before airing it. That's how GXP got aired.

 

How dare you mock IBO! S2 will have 3x the lunch scenes making it 3x better!

I literally am only excited for IBO S2 because I found out it has a gay character and the gay character lives...otherwise I know nothing about it and I do not care

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Yep. Picking up the blu-ray of that. So hyped to see the rest with the dub after sampling the first couple of eps.

 

One example that I'm really surprised at was that Blood Blockade Battlefront didn't get gobbled up fast since it has the perfect combination of action, drama, and comedy for Toonami. Maybe it was too costly. Maybe with season 2 coming it'll get another shot since that'll give it a longer run if they pick it up.

 

I kind of think that them picking up Outlaw Star for the back of the block doesn't really effect new stuff though since they aren't likely to premiere really new stuff at the back end of the block.

We just know that a lot of the front is currently booked with two DBs, new Jojo just starting, TG still finishing the rest of its second half, Lupin the 3rd only being a few weeks in, and the just recently finished Japanese airing of Gundam IBO S2 we know taking one of the slots in the fall

 

God I haven't played "what should be on Toonami" for the longest time. 

 

And also, god! 8 pages!?!  What happened when I was away?

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And also, god! 8 pages!?!  What happened when I was away?

Quotes such as yours come off as silly until I remember that not everyone has 25 posts per page.

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They aren't even trying to do that though. They're letting a couple dozen fans select anime on some tumblr poll. That's how we got TG.

 

Dimension W... they just took a shot in the dark. No one had seen it.

 

Is that how we got it? Because despite its big problems TG does still seem quite popular for some reason.

I think they had the right idea with finally slipping in another darker show amongst all of the shonen, they just should have picked another more consensusly solid one (like Parasyte was) something more like Psycho-Pass season 1. Not that there's a ton to pick from at the moment.

 

If they wanted something equally crazy gore-y, with a similar body count and divisiveness, but more distinctive, they could have picked TERRAFORMARS ;)

 

 

I think taking a shot in the dark is worth doing sometimes. That's also how they got Space Dandy which was Funimation's first simuldub and actually was very well received.

 

Interestingly Dimension W actually still 7 rating on places like myanimelist even with its flaws.

I also think that Dimension W could have easily turned out much better than it did had it just had a better director that was more experienced with action and tricky science fiction stories which he had never done before, the animation staff did a great job on some of the action scenes themselves but the progression of them and the storytelling within them seemed to often be sited as feeling quite messy.

 

I believe the manga version is actually still going.  And the show did have plenty of elements and a sense of style that would have done even better on Toonami had the story and action progression been executed better.

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I also think that Dimension W could have easily turned out much better than it did had it just had a better director that was more experienced with action and tricky science fiction stories which he had never done before, the animation staff did a great job on some of the action scenes themselves but the progression of them and the storytelling within them seemed to often be sited as feeling quite messy.

 

I believe the manga version is actually still going.  And the show did have plenty of elements and a sense of style that would have done even better on Toonami had the story and action progression been executed better.

 

The summary of the series I read before I watched it on Toonami made it seem that Dimension W was going to be about some sci-fi conspiracy involving the coils that the protagonists would slowly discover.  What we got was...not that.  I think had that been the actual storyline of the show it would have been more well received.  Of course, I also really didn't hate Dimension W all that much, so take my opinion as you will.

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Yeah but look at Dimension W's data on MAL. And as always, all anime ranking systems should be taken with  a grain of salt.

 

Ranked #2226 Popularity #399 Members 156,359  The rank is the best gauge on how much people actually liked it.

 

DB Super Ranked #1728 Popularity #384 Members 160,684    Super is nearly as bad as DW? HAH

 

One Punch Man Ranked #34 Popularity #13 Members 758,859

 

Tokyo Ghoul Ranked #511 Popularity #10 Members 791,486

 

Angel Beats Ranked #182 Popularity #5 Members 852,398

 

RE ZERO Ranked #97 Popularity #46 Members 532,274

 

Stein's Gate Ranked #4 Popularity #7 Members 819,837

 

Tokyo Ghoul had insane popularity, it was the 3rd best selling manga at one point. People had mixed reviews on the first season and absolutely turned on it after the second season came out as all filler.

 

Knowing that fact in 2017, there's no way you air it.

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In all fairness, MAL runs on a weighted scale system,  there's no 0 rating for shows so if someone really doesn't like something the lack of rating for it doesn't factor into the overall score, and not everyone shares the same opinion as you do. After all, the goodness and/or badness of an anime is entirely subjective. It all depends on what the viewer mentally makes of it.

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So do you think One Piece leaving was a mistake because it took away some of Toonami's identity?

 

I wouldn't call it a mistake.  In order to bring in new stuff, sometimes old stuff has to cycle off.  I'm sure the economics and general contract dates coincided such that OP was that show at that time.

 

I do think it served a purpose for the block, and had enough of a presence that it's absence may have contributed to destabilizing the block somewhat.

 

My personal view is that keeping it would have worked out fine probably, but again, the specific circumstances may well have required it end just due to how the contracts/licenses were situated, budget, etc.  Sometimes there's not a lot you can do to prevent that sort of thing.

 

So making room for some other titles isn't such a bad idea.  The block does tend to get choked in long-running pop anime.  But of those long-running pop anime, I think OP had a more specific niche appeal than the others.  DBZ is kind of the pop king.  But I'm not sure all DBZ viewers are in for the whole block.  Whereas, the smaller audience of OP viewers may be more inclined to watch other shows too.

 

I think something like Toonami succeeds because it's seeding on multiple levels.  You have the big bang pop stuff.  You have "wtf is that" stuff.  And then you have underlying all that, a sort of appeal to nostalgia or a specific niche that has a lot of loyalty as a component.

 

The base upon which you build an audience I think, that base audience, is probably in Toonami's case, the OP audience in essence.  Then upon that, it gets built up with bigger pop shows like DBS and things like that, which bring in lots of people for those shows, or the sort of flocking effect when something is perceived as popular.  But those audience members can flock in another direction just as easily, and potentially don't necessarily stick with the whole block.

 

You kind of need both.

 

I think OP served an important purpose for the block that wasn't perhaps fully understood.  But also you can't always control what has to go when.  So I can't say firmly that it was a mistake.  Just that I think it served a purpose for the block that I think wasn't fully grasped.

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Yeah but look at Dimension W's data on MAL. And as always, all anime ranking systems should be taken with  a grain of salt.

 

Ranked #2226 Popularity #399 Members 156,359  The rank is the best gauge on how much people actually liked it.

 

DB Super Ranked #1728 Popularity #384 Members 160,684    Super is nearly as bad as DW? HAH

 

One Punch Man Ranked #34 Popularity #13 Members 758,859

 

Tokyo Ghoul Ranked #511 Popularity #10 Members 791,486

 

Angel Beats Ranked #182 Popularity #5 Members 852,398

 

RE ZERO Ranked #97 Popularity #46 Members 532,274

 

Stein's Gate Ranked #4 Popularity #7 Members 819,837

 

Tokyo Ghoul had insane popularity, it was the 3rd best selling manga at one point. People had mixed reviews on the first season and absolutely turned on it after the second season came out as all filler.

 

Knowing that fact in 2017, there's no way you air it.

 

Dimension W felt like it came out of nowhere to me.  I knew what it was, but as a Toonami pick I was just like "uh okay".

 

I would venture to guess it's one of those things where the studio or the licensor was like "hey here, if you run this, we'll let you have it for next to nothing (or nothing)" or else it was tied to some other acquisition like "you can have this thing you want cheap, but only if you also take Dimension W", or something along those lines.

 

I think that happens periodically too.  Where, like they're overbudget, or close to overbudget, and somebody comes along with a deal on something, especially a newer title, I think they strongly consider those offers even if the shows aren't necessarily prime.

 

 

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so actually these two answers kind of criss-cross at that juncture of - Toonami is part of a commercial entity that, while it does try to make decisions based on aesthetic, and wisely also tracks audience preference data, money and timing also play large roles sometimes in what stays, what comes, and what goes.

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...or else it was tied to some other acquisition like "you can have this thing you want cheap, but only if you also take Dimension W", or something along those lines.

I don't really think that was the case. Dimension W was the only pickup Toonami got from FUNimation between Michiko and Hatchin and Dragonball Super, so it wasn't part of a package deal like the Samurai Champloo-Paranoia Agent agreement of 2005, or how I assume us getting Akame ga KILL! alongside Parasyte worked out. If anything, I think Dimension W aired on Toonami because FUNimation wanted to make money back on the show in case it bombed in Japan, since they were part of the production committee, and thought good ratings from a TV broadcast would help with that.

 

EDIT: Crap, forgot all about them re-licensing Champloo. So maybe that played a role in it too. :robot[

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Dimension W felt like it came out of nowhere to me.  I knew what it was, but as a Toonami pick I was just like "uh okay".

 

I would venture to guess it's one of those things where the studio or the licensor was like "hey here, if you run this, we'll let you have it for next to nothing (or nothing)" or else it was tied to some other acquisition like "you can have this thing you want cheap, but only if you also take Dimension W", or something along those lines.

 

I think that happens periodically too.  Where, like they're overbudget, or close to overbudget, and somebody comes along with a deal on something, especially a newer title, I think they strongly consider those offers even if the shows aren't necessarily prime.

 

I always assumed it was something like that. DW had practically no  fanbase and airing it on TV could only help it, so Toonami probably got it for next to nothing or... just nothing.

 

But I would argue that Toonami needs to resist the temptation to air anime just because it's a sweet deal. Eventually you reach a point where the Toonami brand is associated with well.... bad anime.

 

You only get to air so many Supers, TG's and DW's before you've done permanent damage to your brand.

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At this point, JMan's claims that One Piece ruined the block are mostly sustained by his personal dislike for the show.

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At this point, JMan's claims that One Piece ruined the block are mostly sustained by his personal dislike for the show.

he apparently has even more bitterness against Moose than I do

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A mistake that apparently rose the block average by almost 100K!

 

Yeah, a REAL MISTAKE, alright!

I don't give a fuck how it effected Toonami.

 

The creation of One Piece was a mistake.

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he apparently has even more bitterness against Moose than I do

 

Aww I miss the Moose/ Jman dynamic.

 

But this forum wasn't big enough for the both of em.

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Do I feel upset that a thread I started is now about a member I ignore saying One Piece was a mistake?

 

... yes. But I won't criticize him for saying it.

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Does it really matter that you're ignoring Jman, Elfie?

 

[walks up to door, steps through, and closes door]

 

Yes.

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Anyway, old show is old.  But Oda is too busy trying to make One Piece the next Game of Thrones in the US.

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Seriously pumped about this.  Outlaw Star was enormously fun, and it'll be great to see it in its HD glory.

 

The only bummer about it is that GITS 2nd Gig gets screwed over yet again.  Hopefully they'll start there the next time they have to fill in a rerun slot.

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One day I'll be able to sit through all of 2nd Gig without zoning out or falling asleep in the middle of a dialogue between characters. Two weeks from now will not be that day.

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So do we want to go ahead and make individual threads for each and every Outlaw Star episode for it's HD run?

 

ooor would more people rather have one big rerun thread for every episode

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